Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid: Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I wonder if Vancouver is a player here

Maybe. I'm thinking Vegas might be a player as well.

 

[GKJ]

Maybe. I'm thinking Vegas might be a player as well.

I thought that too but they have guys to re-sign. I could see it for the defensemen though.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Maybe. I'm thinking Vegas might be a player as well.

I'll have to look, but idk if they have any good prospects that I'm interested in (as if we'd get them)

 

[Larry44]

He is? Did you see his abysmal scoring in both the OHL and AHL? I think @Appleyard had some great research on prospects with said scoring profile and how often they work out at the NHL level (spoiler alert: doesn’t work out too often).

I live in Hamilton and I saw a LOT of Grushnikov over the previous two years in Jr. 2nd round pick 48th. I wanted the Flyers to get him but they took Tuomaala right before Dallas grabbed Stankoven and The Grusher. 2021 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

The kid is big, fast, mean, hits to hurt, fearless, moves the puck and can shoot. He's more of a defensive Dman, but he's going to play a long time in the NHL and probably pretty soon.

I admit my bias, but the kid is a warrior. He was a big fan favorite on the way to the OHL title and MemCup.

Here he is grushing someone:
Nice first OHL goal too:

In my view, to get a prospect like this, and a 2nd would be a solid return for Tanev at 25%, and they got a cond 3rd.

IF the Flyers could get a comparable prospect and a 2nd for Walker, I'd take it. First would be better, so if you add Laughton to it, take a contract back and retain, you might get a good package.

 

[TheKingPin]

It makes zero sense at all for the Flyers to waste a retention slot this far ahead of the deadline to pick up only a 4th round pick. We’re one of the few teams with a lot of cap space and owners that are willing to spend to acquire draft capital. There should be a bigger opportunity closer to the deadline, I’d hope. Maybe a few. Lot of cash strapped contenders out there.

Might even need to use those slots on Laughton/Walker to maximize return.


He is? Did you see his abysmal scoring in both the OHL and AHL? I think @Appleyard had some great research on prospects with said scoring profile and how often they work out at the NHL level (spoiler alert: doesn’t work out too often).

I wouldn’t say zero sense. We used a retention slot for Kevin Hayes. If we use our cap space for better than a 4th I’ll be happy we stayed out of it. I remember a few deals last year that were for 5th rounders or so.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

I wouldn’t say zero sense. We used a retention slot for Kevin Hayes. If we use our cap space for better than a 4th I’ll be happy we stayed out of it. I remember a few deals last year that were for 5th rounders or so.

A 4th is better than nothing, but not much. I just think there’s a long way to go and a lot of deals to come and we only have 2 retention slots. I’d prefer to go bigger game hunting or at the very least have that carrot to dangle in a laughton or walker trade to up the return.

There’s a possibility we swing and miss and that’s the best retention opportunity of the deadline, but if that’s the case oh well. I won’t lose sleep over missing out on a 4th.

The Kevin Hayes thing was obviously to get a malcontent off our team and out of the locker room. Not the most efficient use of cap, but it clearly did wonders for the team chemistry.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

I live in Hamilton and I saw a LOT of Grushnikov over the previous two years in Jr. 2nd round pick 48th. I wanted the Flyers to get him but they took Tuomaala right before Dallas grabbed Stankoven and The Grusher. 2021 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

The kid is big, fast, mean, hits to hurt, fearless, moves the puck and can shoot. He's more of a defensive Dman, but he's going to play a long time in the NHL and probably pretty soon.

I admit my bias, but the kid is a warrior. He was a big fan favorite on the way to the OHL title and MemCup.

I think it’s definitely a bit of bias on your part. I can certainly see where a big, mean, hits to hurt defenseman becomes a fan favorite, but when you look at someone with his stat profile in the OHL and AHL, there’s just an insanely low probability such a player even turns into an NHL regular for 100+ games. Let alone a top 4 shutdown type. His numbers in juniors and the AHL look like Risto’s numbers the last 2 years in the pros. When you adjust that to factor in the difference in league quality… its yikes level bad.

I see the tools and why he was drafted fairly high, but they never developed like at all. It’s a literal flyer on a guy most saw as barely a top 10 stars prospect.

He honestly reminds me of Helge Grans. Different player obviously, but similar draft position and similar post-draft career trajectory.

In my view, to get a prospect like this, and a 2nd would be a solid return for Tanev at 25%, and they got a cond 3rd.

IF the Flyers could get a comparable prospect and a 2nd for Walker, I'd take it. First would be better, so if you add Laughton to it, take a contract back and retain, you might get a good package.

I’d be extremely disappointed if we end up with the 55th or worse overall pick, a lottery ticket prospect, and a 2026 conditional 3rd with the condition being the acquiring team has to make the cup final (if that happens, it would push the 2nd rounder even lower).

Honestly, I think Briere would be well within reason to consider keeping Walker if that’s the best we could get.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Grushnikov is a nothing burger but he's a former 2nd round pick on the first year of his ELC. Calgary clearly valued him to some degree.

 

[TheKingPin]

A 4th is better than nothing, but not much. I just think there’s a long way to go and a lot of deals to come and we only have 2 retention slots. I’d prefer to go bigger game hunting or at the very least have that carrot to dangle in a laughton or walker trade to up the return.

There’s a possibility we swing and miss and that’s the best retention opportunity of the deadline, but if that’s the case oh well. I won’t lose sleep over missing out on a 4th.

The Kevin Hayes thing was obviously to get a malcontent off our team and out of the locker room. Not the most efficient use of cap, but it clearly did wonders for the team chemistry.

I am hopefully for a higher pick to retain but I don’t think we will see a 1st traded for that like we had in the past. Seems like the price went down for retaining. We could also just take a bad contract back for value like the Provy deal.

 

[Appleyard]

It makes zero sense at all for the Flyers to waste a retention slot this far ahead of the deadline to pick up only a 4th round pick. We’re one of the few teams with a lot of cap space and owners that are willing to spend to acquire draft capital. There should be a bigger opportunity closer to the deadline, I’d hope. Maybe a few. Lot of cash strapped contenders out there.

Might even need to use those slots on Laughton/Walker to maximize return.


He is? Did you see his abysmal scoring in both the OHL and AHL? I think @Appleyard had some great research on prospects with said scoring profile and how often they work out at the NHL level (spoiler alert: doesn’t work out too often).

I would not have moved for Grushnikov...

but I do imagine teams see his value as comparable to a 3rd round pick.

If we ignore the whole 4th rounder, Brady etc...

Tanev deal in draft picks is probably:

2nd, 3rd, conditional 3rd

If that is the value for Walker? I take it every day.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

I would not have moved for Grushnikov...

but I do imagine teams see his value as comparable to a 3rd round pick.

If we ignore the whole 4th rounder, Brady etc...

Tanev deal in draft picks is probably:

2nd, 3rd, conditional 3rd

If that is the value for Walker? I take it every day.

ok, but now you gotta factor in that Calgary retained 2.25MM. If the Devils got a 4 to retain half of that, that’s gotta be worth at least a 3, right? For reference, the Perri Cap Relief Calculator on Puckpedia says retaining 2.25MM is actually worth a high 2nd, but I think retention values have been trending down in recent years, so I won’t even debate that and we’ll just say a 3rd is fair. So they got the lotto ticket on Grushnikov for retaining.

The conditional 3rd is for 2026, 3 drafts into the future. The classic valuation is that you discount that by a round for every year into the future you’re going (ie if you wanted to acquire a 5th round pick in this year’s draft, you’d have to offer a 4th in next year draft, and so on). So that’s basically equivalent to a 2024 5th round pick. And the condition on that pick is “making the cup final”. Moneypuck has Dallas at about 13% and change to do that. Let’s say Tanev boosts that up to a nice even 15%. So it’s a 15% shot at the equivalent of a 5th round pick.

I’ll repeat that I’d be extremely disappointed if that’s all we get for Sean Walker. I think this was a pretty awful trade for Calgary.

 

[BiggE]

I would not have moved for Grushnikov...

but I do imagine teams see his value as comparable to a 3rd round pick.

If we ignore the whole 4th rounder, Brady etc...

Tanev deal in draft picks is probably:

2nd, 3rd, conditional 3rd

If that is the value for Walker? I take it every day.

Yup. I’d much have rather have the draft picks than a prospect whose ceiling is probably that of Seeler with a slightly better shot.

Draft picks beyond the 1st round are basically like lottery tickets. If you accumulate enough you increase the odds of hitting on a late round gem. So, if the best you can get for Walker is a 2nd and a 3rd, you do it. If Seeler can bring you a late 2nd along with a 5th, you do it. Hell, if Staal can bring in a 5th, you do it.

The only player I’m demanding a 1st for is Laughton because, with the term on his deal and the cap going up next year, he might bring in more value at the draft rather than this season’s deadline. The only acquisition I’d be ok with would be trading a 6th or a 7th for a better goalie than Cal.

 

[GKJ]

ok, but now you gotta factor in that Calgary retained 2.25MM. If the Devils got a 4 to retain half of that, that’s gotta be worth at least a 3, right? For reference, the Perri Cap Relief Calculator on Puckpedia says retaining 2.25MM is actually worth a high 2nd, but I think retention values have been trending down in recent years, so I won’t even debate that and we’ll just say a 3rd is fair. So they got the lotto ticket on Grushnikov for retaining.

The conditional 3rd is for 2026, 3 drafts into the future. The classic valuation is that you discount that by a round for every year into the future you’re going (ie if you wanted to acquire a 5th round pick in this year’s draft, you’d have to offer a 4th in next year draft, and so on). So that’s basically equivalent to a 2024 5th round pick. And the condition on that pick is “making the cup final”. Moneypuck has Dallas at about 13% and change to do that. Let’s say Tanev boosts that up to a nice even 15%. So it’s a 15% shot at the equivalent of a 5th round pick.

I’ll repeat that I’d be extremely disappointed if that’s all we get for Sean Walker. I think this was a pretty awful trade for Calgary.

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone get more than a 4th for doing it. Those valuations kind of don’t match up really.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Lot of people have their head still stuck in the sand thinking we’d get a 1st for Walker. Not going to happen.

Yup. I’d much have rather have the draft picks than a prospect whose ceiling is probably that of Seeler with a slightly better shot.

Draft picks beyond the 1st round are basically like lottery tickets. If you accumulate enough you increase the odds of hitting on a late round gem. So, if the best you can get for Walker is a 2nd and a 3rd, you do it. If Seeler can bring you a late 2nd along with a 5th, you do it. Hell, if Staal can bring in a bag of pucks you do it.

The only player I’m demanding a 1st for is Laughton because, with the term on his deal and the cap going up next year, he might bring in more value at the draft rather than this season’s deadline. The only acquisition I’d be ok with would be trading a 6th or a 7th for a better goalie than Cal.

Fixed.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Quantity is irrelevant at this point, even if the Flyers obsess over a constant supply of bottom 6, or 3rd pairing defensemen. Bullshit strategy, but maybe a team of the Cates relatives help the team win a chess championship.

Would teams consider a first rounder in return if the Flyers offered up a pick of their own to go along with Walker?

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Found this to be an interesting bit of information, idk if the quote is real, but I don't think it's far fetched at all based off of what we've seen

 

[Redpath]

Man, even if that it tongue-in-cheek, that quote is going to bite him in the ass if things don't go great at the deadline.

I'd expect a Communications Mastermind like Jonesy to know better.

 

[SnS]

Quantity is irrelevant at this point, even if the Flyers obsess over a constant supply of bottom 6, or 3rd pairing defensemen. Bullshit strategy, but maybe a team of the Cates relatives help the team win a chess championship.

Would teams consider a first rounder in return if the Flyers offered up a pick of their own to go along with Walker?

Doubt it.

Walker isn’t worth a first.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Found this to be an interesting bit of information, idk if the quote is real, but I don't think it's far fetched at all based off of what we've seen

View attachment 826993

It's real.

The question he's responding to is at 8:29:40 and he says the quote at 8:30:12

https://www.audacy.com/stations/94wip

Decamera follows it up with "We just heard it from a Philadelphia executive may not be what they really think!" Jones did not shoot it down in any way.

Look, I get what he's saying here is that the players in the room don't care about a rebuild. They have to perform so that they can bring home a check to their family and put tape out there but JFC.

Here's the full quote for those that don't want to listen:

DeCamera: "Has the team exceeded your expectations?"

Jones: "I would say marginally. I'm not surprised where they're at. I'm not surprised how they compete for each other. I think I knew that part would be ok. I felt really confident about that going in. Danny and I felt very confident about that going in to the season and we talked to players individually about we're saying one thing to everyone as far as our messaging and that is that we're rebuilding but we made sure to tell every member of the team that that's BS"

*laughter ensues*

DeCamera: "We just heard it from a Philadelphia executive may not be what they really think!"

 

[Flyerfan4life]

It's real.

The question he's responding to is at 8:29:40 and he says the quote at 8:30:12

https://www.audacy.com/stations/94wip

that qoute is sooo onbrand..

never change Flyers...

 

[Larry44]

It's real.

The question he's responding to is at 8:29:40 and he says the quote at 8:30:12

https://www.audacy.com/stations/94wip

Decamera follows it up with "We just heard it from a Philadelphia executive may not be what they really think!" Jones did not shoot it down in any way.

Look, I get what he's saying here is that the players in the room don't care about a rebuild. They have to perform so that they can bring home a check to their family and put tape out there but JFC.

Same quote clipped in a tweet. I get it, you can't tell the players not to try.

https://x.com/dsilver88/status/1763200739940159831?s=20

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

It's like we all have forgotten who Keith Jones is. The guy has never given a straight or serious answer or made any serious comments about anything in his entire broadcasting career (and probably entire life). He's a jokester. I wouldn't put too much stock into anything he says.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

It's like we all have forgotten who Keith Jones is. The guy has never given a straight or serious answer or made any serious comments about anything in his entire broadcasting career (and probably entire life). He's a jokester. I wouldn't put too much stock into anything he says.

He's the President of the Philadelphia Flyers. An organization that historically has cowered in a corner at the thought of rebuilding. An organization that many are skeptical about whether they actually mean it (they don't).

It's just not something that you say whether in a joking manner or not.

 

[GKJ]

Now Hilferty is on talking a bunch of nonsense

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Now Hilferty is on talking a bunch of nonsense

Let me know if he starts singing God Bless America, i'll tune back in!