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Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid: Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions

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LegionOfDoom91 said:


Already laying down the ground work for later used excuses. :laugh:
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While it is obvious that this is an awful move long-term if this is really in the mix, I do understand the sentiment. They 100% should sell off anything and everything they can with few exceptions but at the same time, it is hard to justify that to the players on the team. They are currently in a playoff spot with 5 points on the devils (who have two games in hand) and under 30 games to play. While I assume everyone on the team understands the Flyers are in a rebuilding phase, or at least SHOULD be in a rebuilding phase, that's still a tough message to send to a room full of guys, many of whom have never seen the post-season or haven't seen it in years and it sets up a culture of losing which typically doesn't pan out (see the Philadelphia 76ers). It's one thing to know you are going to suck at the beginning of the year and not try to improve to help with the rebuild, it is another thing to be having a good season and then actively try to get worse and miss the playoffs.

If I'm GM I am 100% getting rid of anyone I can who will return value. That is what is best for the organization long-term. But that isn't an easy decision to make.
 
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DrinkFightFlyers said:
While it is obvious that this is an awful move long-term if this is really in the mix, I do understand the sentiment. They 100% should sell off anything and everything they can with few exceptions but at the same time, it is hard to justify that to the players on the team. They are currently in a playoff spot with 5 points on the devils (who have two games in hand) and under 30 games to play. While I assume everyone on the team understands the Flyers are in a rebuilding phase, or at least SHOULD be in a rebuilding phase, that's still a tough message to send to a room full of guys, many of whom have never seen the post-season or haven't seen it in years and it sets up a culture of losing which typically doesn't pan out (see the Philadelphia 76ers). It's one thing to know you are going to suck at the beginning of the year and not try to improve to help with the rebuild, it is another thing to be having a good season and then actively try to get worse and miss the playoffs.

If I'm GM I am 100% getting rid of anyone I can who will return value. That is what is best for the organization long-term. But that isn't an easy decision to make.
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so stay with 3 years away from being 3 years away yet again..

got it..

your sentiment is exactly why this club will never win anything.. they are incapable to sticking to a plan
 
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it’s crazy because the Flyers have put so much pressure on themselves publicly to sell despite being in the playoffs, that it’s perhaps pushing the ceiling down on their returns because other teams think they have to. It’s like the league is daring them to stick to rebuilding, while the Flyers can’t get a price on anyone they don’t think they have to move.

Meanwhile, Calgary - very similar position with a rookie GM and reasonable chance at the playoffs, have their prices and are getting them, although with higher ceiling assets.
 
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Flyerfan4life said:
so stay with 3 years away from being 3 years away yet again..

got it..

your sentiment is exactly why this club will never win anything.. they are incapable to sticking to a plan
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I'm not saying they should but acting like this is an easy choice in reality (as in not on a message board) is silly. This isn't NHL24. You're in a playoff spot relatively comfortably right now with a lot of young guys without playoff experience. There is value in that even with a first round exit, especially compared to openly telling these same young players, players that we are all so concerned about their development, that even though they've ayed their hearts out and done pretty much the unthinkable to be in this position, we're blowing it up in hopes that 3-4 years from now we can be in this position again. That probably has more of a negative impact on development than most other things people complain about.

With the exception of Walker and Seeler, all these guys can be traded at the draft. If I'm GM, I am trading them. It is a terrible long-term plan to not trade them and an even worse plan to bring them both back on new deals. But at the same time not every decision that is made is a long term decision. Again, I think they are stupid and short-sighted if they stand pat (or worse become buyers) but it isn't black and white.
 
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DrinkFightFlyers said:
I'm not saying they should but acting like this is an easy choice in reality (as in not on a message board) is silly. This isn't NHL24. You're in a playoff spot relatively comfortably right now with a lot of young guys without playoff experience. There is value in that even with a first round exit, especially compared to openly telling these same young players, players that we are all so concerned about their development, that even though they've ayed their hearts out and done pretty much the unthinkable to be in this position, we're blowing it up in hopes that 3-4 years from now we can be in this position again. That probably has more of a negative impact on development than most other things people complain about.

With the exception of Walker and Seeler, all these guys can be traded at the draft. If I'm GM, I am trading them. It is a terrible long-term plan to not trade them and an even worse plan to bring them both back on new deals. But at the same time not every decision that is made is a long term decision. Again, I think they are stupid and short-sighted if they stand pat (or worse become buyers) but it isn't black and white.
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Sorry but this is a problem of Briere's own making. He is the one who refused to trade these veterans in the offseason resulting in a "rebuilding" team full of veterans and geriatrics. So now he'll refuse to sell because his team of vets is overachieving. Then we rinse and repeat the same thing this offseason and before we know it we're five years into a rebuild that hasn't started.
 
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Walker should have been moved when he was a hot topic in like..December ..Scotty don't should have been gone last season...they are going to hold on too long and teams will move on to other options leaving Danny with the whole "sign them since I can't let them walk for nothing"

#REBUILD!!!!
 
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Fight4yourRight said:
What has Briere done so far that has shown he’s worth a shit? Everything has signalled that he is overwhelmed and that the rest of the league believes they can run over him just like Cuck.
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I will say that I think he did decently well escaping from the Cutter situation (though remains unclear how responsible he is for the situation in the first place). Provy trade looks fine I guess. Everything else ranged from unnecessary (max Tippett deal now) to useless (Hathaway, Staal) to lucky (Bettman saving him from wasting a retention slot on D'Angelo). He's been overseeing this "rebuild" for close to a year now and has done virtually nothing.
 
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LegionOfGloom said:
Sorry but this is a problem of Briere's own making. He is the one who refused to trade these veterans in the offseason resulting in a "rebuilding" team full of veterans and geriatrics. So now he'll refuse to sell because his team of vets is overachieving. Then we rinse and repeat the same thing this offseason and before we know it we're five years into a rebuild that hasn't started.
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But that isn't the case though. This team was supposed to suck. No one expected this. No pundits. No posters. No insiders. This isn't a situation where we are all sitting here saying, "we need to trade Matt Walker and Scott Laughton or else the team will make the playoffs and screw up the rebuild!" We said, "these guys suck and this team sucks" and then all the sudden that wasn't the case. Yes, Nick Seeler should have been traded last year. 100% agree. Laughton I know everyone is mad they didn't trade last year. I don't think anyone would have traded anything to us for Walker before the season started so he was going to be here this year regardless.

Briere didn't build a team built for the playoffs. On paper before the season this team was built to finish in the bottom five-ten. They are outplaying that expectation. Veterans and geriatrics playing over young guys (the thing that this message board has cried about for the last decade of making this team worse) now all the sudden is making the team better than playing young guys over them? If we wanted to tank this team on paper before the season was the team to tank.

Some people are talking out of both sides of their mouths. You want to tank and rebuild. For years we heard about not playing aging vets because we have better younger players who deserve to play. I still see people complain about guys like Frost not being given enough opportunity. So which is it? Are we rebuilding and need to lose or should this team be better by playing younger players?

This was unexpected and now is a difficult choice for Briere. I know what I would do, but this isn't an easy choice even when the long-term plan seems so obvious. Sometimes you sacrifice short-term for long-term goals and vice versa. Nothing is ever black and white. Talking about sticking to a plan, well sometimes shit happens and you have to adjust. Sometimes your plan changes, you don't stick to a plan just because that is the plan. You can change an opinion too if you think a player should be traded today that may change tomorrow. We aren't locked in to anything.
 
DrinkFightFlyers said:
But that isn't the case though. This team was supposed to suck. No one expected this. No pundits. No posters. No insiders. This isn't a situation where we are all sitting here saying, "we need to trade Matt Walker and Scott Laughton or else the team will make the playoffs and screw up the rebuild!" We said, "these guys suck and this team sucks" and then all the sudden that wasn't the case. Yes, Nick Seeler should have been traded last year. 100% agree. Laughton I know everyone is mad they didn't trade last year. I don't think anyone would have traded anything to us for Walker before the season started so he was going to be here this year regardless.

Briere didn't build a team built for the playoffs. On paper before the season this team was built to finish in the bottom five-ten. They are outplaying that expectation. Veterans and geriatrics playing over young guys (the thing that this message board has cried about for the last decade of making this team worse) now all the sudden is making the team better than playing young guys over them? If we wanted to tank this team on paper before the season was the team to tank.

Some people are talking out of both sides of their mouths. You want to tank and rebuild. For years we heard about not playing aging vets because we have better younger players who deserve to play. I still see people complain about guys like Frost not being given enough opportunity. So which is it? Are we rebuilding and need to lose or should this team be better by playing younger players?

This was unexpected and now is a difficult choice for Briere. I know what I would do, but this isn't an easy choice even when the long-term plan seems so obvious. Sometimes you sacrifice short-term for long-term goals and vice versa. Nothing is ever black and white. Talking about sticking to a plan, well sometimes shit happens and you have to adjust. Sometimes your plan changes, you don't stick to a plan just because that is the plan. You can change an opinion too if you think a player should be traded today that may change tomorrow. We aren't locked in to anything.
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I didn't think the team was good enough for the playoffs but I absolutely believed it was way too good for a team entering a rebuild. And that is absolutely on Briere who refused to tank. And tanking can mean stripping everything done or just moving guys who are not part of the long term. He choose Option C and did NOTHING. There were plenty of people here arguing that this team was too good and would likely pick around #12 and miss all the elite prospects. Ok, they overachieved and will probably pick 18-23 but the point still remains. This team was better than we thought but many of us thought it was too good to begin with.

Coots
Konecny
Atkinsson
Laughton
Cates
Poehling
Deslauriers
Hathaway
Sanheim
Staal
Ristolainan
Walker
Seeler

That's 13 out of 21 skater slots. Even if you say Coots, TK, and Sanheim are part of the future, that's still almost half your roster devoted to useless pieces moving forward. Your 2023-2024 REBUILDING Philadelphia Flyers
 
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iceman42 said:
Can't look at this at its face value, while I am in the "there will be no moves" camp. This seems very much like a leak to get some teams moving on the phones. The other angle on this is if they are serious about trying to resign him in the off-season it would be good to have some idea of what the Walker camp is thinking.
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The Flyers would never be so negatively dishonest. They want to make everyone happy.
 
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LegionOfGloom said:
I didn't think the team was good enough for the playoffs but I absolutely believed it was way too good for a team entering a rebuild. And that is absolutely on Briere who refused to tank. And tanking can mean stripping everything done or just moving guys who are not part of the long term. He choose Option C and did NOTHING. There were plenty of people here arguing that this team was too good and would likely pick around #12 and miss all the elite prospects. Ok, they overachieved and will probably pick 18-23 but the point still remains. This team was better than we thought but many of us thought it was too good to begin with.

Coots
Konecny
Atkinsson
Laughton
Cates
Poehling
Deslauriers
Hathaway
Sanheim
Staal
Ristolainan
Walker
Seeler

That's 13 out of 21 skater slots. Even if you say Coots, TK, and Sanheim are part of the future, that's still almost half your roster devoted to useless pieces moving forward. Your 2023-2024 REBUILDING Philadelphia Flyers
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This is just very confusing because my understanding (maybe not from you specifically) was that Deslauriers, Staal, Hathaway, and Cates all sucked. So in theory we should WANT those guys to play. Atkinson or Risto who was trading for either before the season starts? No one.

Laughton, Walker, and Seeler I get so that is 3 guys that fit this category. Poehling I think everyone agreed that was a good signing short and long-term (or at least wasn't a BAD signing). This looked like on paper a rebuilding team. We didn't have people saying this team was too good to rebuild in a serious manner. We had people in a "worst case scenario" type of scenario saying that they can see Torts coaching the team up to pick at that point, but it wasn't the consensus saying "this team is not a bottom feeder and will challenge for a playoff spot." The Athletic had the Flyers as the 4th worst team, ESPN had them as 29th, not a single NHL.com writer had them in the playoffs, Sporting News had them 8th in the Metro. This was a bad team on paper. The team really couldn't have been constructed any worse short of trading TK pre-season which wouldn't have been a good idea IMO and trading a guy like Coots or Atkinson, neither of whom had any value or interest in all likelihood given their recent injury history and contracts.

We all thought this team sucked and frankly I still think they suck and think regardless of what they do they will miss the playoffs because they just aren't that good.
 
If Briere wanted to avoid having to sell off in the midst of a playoff hunt, he could have capitalized when trade rumors started to pop up in November. He could have done it off a 5 game losing streak going into the ASG break. He had outs to avoid this situation.

If players are going to take personal offense to Briere executing on his publicly stated rebuild, then they aren't cut out for the long road ahead.
 
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Redpath said:
If Briere wanted to avoid having to sell off in the midst of a playoff hunt, he could have capitalized when trade rumors started to pop up in November. He could have done it off a 5 game losing streak going into the ASG break. He had outs to avoid this situation.

If players are going to take personal offense to Briere executing on his publicly stated rebuild, then they aren't cut out for the long road ahead.
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They've been in a playoff hunt since the beginning of the season. And it isn't about taking personal offense, it is telling our young developing guys (guys that everyone is always so critical about this team with how they develop players) that they shouldn't be playing to win. I know people laugh about culture and think it isn't a big deal, but loser teams lose. You think any of these guys will reach their full potential playing year in and year out on loser teams where they aren't trying to win? How is that working out in Edmonton? NYI? Arizona? Or right here in our own city after the "Process" played out so nicely. And so forth and so on.

This shouldn't be taken as me saying we should be buyers or we should not trade anyone, I hate this team and this organization right now and I think they should 100% fire sell anything and everything and if they don't it is a joke. But that's a very different reality than being the actual GM of a hockey team in the midst of a playoff hunt. I'll be right there with my pitchfork if and when they f*** this up, but pretending like Briere has an obvious choice in reality is a different story. Both things can be true. You can be critical of the team and disagree with them while still recognizing that there is more to it than "TRADE EVERYONE AND WE WILL EVENTUALLY BE GOOD."
 
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