Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid: Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions

[BernieParent]

at this point youre just arguing against things I wasnt saying lol where did I say they cant be allowed? youre excited to see prospects play and thats cool we all are, but theres no rush. theyll be in the lineup when theyre ready and when the team feels it will be the best timing. be patient and dont worry so much man

By definition, prospects wouldn't be able to be placed in an optimal line-up or it becomes suboptimal, particularly because they haven't shown at an NHL level that they deserve to be in said optimal line-up. So if there is no place in either an optimal or suboptimal line-up then ...

 

[deadhead]

Trying to square this logic with Ristolainen still being a raw prospect at age 27 with 500 games played.

There's a reason Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs for a decade (actually 12 years).

 

[tnfrs]

By definition, prospects wouldn't be able to be placed in an optimal line-up or it becomes suboptimal, particularly because they haven't shown at an NHL level that they deserve to be in said optimal line-up. So if there is no place in either an optimal or suboptimal line-up then ...

the kind of mental gymnastics you require to make your point is why i dont want to talk about this anymore. we disagree on which prospects are ready for NHL minutes, im ok with that.

 

[BernieParent]

the kind of mental gymnastics you require to make your point is why i dont want to talk about this anymore. we disagree on which prospects are ready for NHL minutes, im ok with that.

Agreed. I'm pretty limited on gymnastics of any kind at my age. This is nothing more than mental deep knee bends.

 

[tnfrs]

Agreed. I'm pretty limited on gymnastics of any kind at my age. This is nothing more than mental deep knee bends.

i couldnt find the emojis, but pretend I put the glasses one here

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hockey isn't baseball, players only spend a couple years in an organization before they sink or swim. Most players are in the CHL until 20-21 or longer in the SHL or KHL.

So I'm skeptical that an organization can destroy talent, more likely, they delay the emergence of a player until he gets into a better environment for him.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally I think player development is limited simply by the time a team has with players.

Oh so marinading them in a skill-eroding program indefinitely until they expire without getting any utility out of them would actually be bad, then?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

There's a reason Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs for a decade (actually 12 years).

incompetent management. like the flyers

 

[JojoTheWhale]

There's a reason Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs for a decade (actually 12 years).

Yes, it’s because they were run incompetently. Not because one particular aspect of what they did was by definition wrong. This is the flip side of saying the Flyers don’t have to gut it. You can do almost anything and have it work. Some roads are just tougher than others, but no roads work if you’re incompetent. Except maybe having McDavid fall into your lap.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes, it’s because they were run incompetently. Not because one particular aspect of what they did was by definition wrong. This is the flip side of saying the Flyers don’t have to gut it. You can do almost anything and have it work. Some roads are just tougher than others, but no roads work if you’re incompetent. Except maybe having McDavid fall into your lap.

Which also won't work because the 2/3 of a game where he's on the bench will betray the team, what with the incompetence in assembling it.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Which also won't work because the 2/3 of a game where he's on the bench will betray the team, what with the incompetence in assembling it.

Yep.

They’re capped by their incompetence, but they’re a relevant NHL team. In the context of what I said to deady, I meant it got them off of the treadmill and into the “Definitely an NHL team” bucket. Basically, there’s no way to be actively bad for a full decade plus without systemic incompetence.

(And I think Buffalo finally found themselves. But that’s a different point.)

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yep.

They’re capped by their incompetence, but they’re a relevant NHL team. In the context of what I said to deady, I meant it got them off of the treadmill and into the “Definitely an NHL team” bucket. Basically, there’s no way to be actively bad for a full decade plus without systemic incompetence.

(And I think Buffalo finally found themselves. But that’s a different point.)

The Flyers can find themselves with one neat trick: firing every single person who has ever been within 5 miles of Bob Clarke.

 

[Curufinwe]

There's a reason Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs for a decade (actually 12 years).

Drafting a lot of bad players in the top 10?

 

[freakydallas13]

There's a reason Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs for a decade (actually 12 years).

Was it because they had management that were so idiotic they valued players like Fisto?

 

[Magua]

What will the arguments be when the Flyers become that team that is stuck in permanent rebuild mediocrity because of bad processes and inability to surround a star, while this current iteration of Buffalo is one of the best teams in the East for a decade?

 

[freakydallas13]

What will the arguments be when the Flyers become that team that is stuck in permanent rebuild mediocrity because of bad processes and inability to surround a star, while this current iteration of Buffalo is one of the best teams in the East for a decade?

....become?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

What will the arguments be when the Flyers become that team that is stuck in permanent rebuild mediocrity because of bad processes and inability to surround a star, while this current iteration of Buffalo is one of the best teams in the East for a decade?

Hextall did it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hextall did it.

Holmgren ordered Briere and Flahr, who will magically lose all agency just like Fletcher did.

 

[deadhead]

Yep.

They’re capped by their incompetence, but they’re a relevant NHL team. In the context of what I said to deady, I meant it got them off of the treadmill and into the “Definitely an NHL team” bucket. Basically, there’s no way to be actively bad for a full decade plus without systemic incompetence.

(And I think Buffalo finally found themselves. But that’s a different point.)

Yes, it's hard to stay that bad for that long.

Flyers are not systematically incompetent, their drafting has probably been middle of the road, maybe better than average after the 2nd round, player development is middle of the road, pro scouting worse than average. Just enough to stay mediocre, which they've been the past decade, 4 PO appearance, 2013-14, 2015-16, 2017-18, 2019-20.

The key issue has been lack of a coherent strategic vision, Holmgren traded Carter/Richards, then instead of rebuilding, patched for 2 seasons, then Hextall started to rebuild, stopped for 3 years, then made the B Schenn trade, Fletcher was hired to "win now" which worked for a year then failed due to lack of talent and bad luck (Patrick, Ellis).

What stands out more than anything is this lack of consistency, stumbling from one GM and one HC to another, no long-term focus, no vision of what the team should look like 3-5 years down the road.

You can run a successful tank (with a little luck), you can rebuild without tanking by focusing on incrementally improving your talent base.
Either way, you have to determine your strategy and then implement it.

 

[Curufinwe]

24th best Points% in a 32 team league over 11 years is worse than mediocre.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

They're also ranked 24th in playoff wins.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes, it's hard to stay that bad for that long.

Flyers are not systematically incompetent, their drafting has probably been middle of the road, maybe better than average after the 2nd round, player development is middle of the road, pro scouting worse than average. Just enough to stay mediocre, which they've been the past decade, 4 PO appearance, 2013-14, 2015-16, 2017-18, 2019-20.

The key issue has been lack of a coherent strategic vision, Holmgren traded Carter/Richards, then instead of rebuilding, patched for 2 seasons, then Hextall started to rebuild, stopped for 3 years, then made the B Schenn trade, Fletcher was hired to "win now" which worked for a year then failed due to lack of talent and bad luck (Patrick, Ellis).

What stands out more than anything is this lack of consistency, stumbling from one GM and one HC to another, no long-term focus, no vision of what the team should look like 3-5 years down the road.

You can run a successful tank (with a little luck), you can rebuild without tanking by focusing on incrementally improving your talent base.
Either way, you have to determine your strategy and then implement it.

Not if you're managed terribly. Like the Flyers are.

They still have no coherent strategic vision.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Hextall did it.

godam Niskanen

 

[freakydallas13]

Yes, it's hard to stay that bad for that long.

Flyers are not systematically incompetent

I stopped reading at this point.

24th best Points% in a 32 team league over 11 years is worse than mediocre.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

They're also ranked 24th in playoff wins.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Bottom third of teams in the leauge in points % and playoff wins for more than a decade. This team wishes it was mediocre.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Yes, it’s because they were run incompetently. Not because one particular aspect of what they did was by definition wrong. This is the flip side of saying the Flyers don’t have to gut it. You can do almost anything and have it work. Some roads are just tougher than others, but no roads work if you’re incompetent. Except maybe having McDavid fall into your lap.

I would happily trade Buffalo’s current situation both on & off the ice for the Flyers’.

 

[renberg]

You can run a successful tank (with a little luck), you can rebuild without tanking by focusing on incrementally improving your talent base.
Either way, you have to determine your strategy and then implement it.

The putting your future in the hands of a tank is fatally flawed. A club can be a disaster; finish last by a bunch and get screwed in the lottery. End up with JVR not Kane.
My gut feeling is that five years from now, aside from Canadians who will not face it, folks are going to say that Chicago should have taken Michkov. The Flyers really fell into a pot of gold with this kid.

 

[freakydallas13]

The putting your future in the hands of a tank is fatally flawed. A club can be a disaster; finish last by a bunch and get screwed in the lottery. End up with JVR not Kane.
My gut feeling is that five years from now, aside from Canadians who will not face it, folks are going to say that Chicago should have taken Michkov. The Flyers really fell into a pot of gold with this kid.

Literally any rebuilding strategy can fail because of luck, it doesn't change the fact that the most consistent way to become a contender is to draft elite talent at the top of the draft.