Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid: Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions

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pit

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two way contracts exist for this exact reason.
Movement of players between leagues has nothing to do with two-way or one-way contracts. A two-way contract only means you get paid less in the AHL than in the NHL.

Two-way/one-way has no impact on waivers or being shuttled between leagues - they only exist to save owners money.
 

tnfrs

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Movement of players between leagues has nothing to do with two-way or one-way contracts. A two-way contract only means you get paid less in the AHL than in the NHL.

Two-way/one-way has no impact on waivers or being shuttled between leagues - they only exist to save owners money.
no one is saying anything about waivers here, two way contracts exist because players move between leagues obviously an owner isnt going to want to pay the same if a player spends time in the A, its why attard just signed a 2 year 2way/1way contract, because if they park him in the AHL they dont have to pay the full nut it has nothing to do with being waiver exempt so i dont know why youre mentioning it here. why else would there be a need for a two way contract?
 

pit

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no one is saying anything about waivers here, two way contracts exist because players move between leagues obviously an owner isnt going to want to pay the same if a player spends time in the A, its why attard just signed a 2 year 2way/1way contract, because if they park him in the AHL they dont have to pay the full nut it has nothing to do with being waiver exempt so i dont know why youre mentioning it here. why else would there be a need for a two way contract?

I inferred from what you were saying, perhaps incorrectly, that two-way contracts exist to make it possible to have players sent down (like was happening because Torts wasn't playing them). Based on the way the Flyers operate with "open checkbook" policies, I don't feel like other financial implications factor heavily into the decision process (i.e. whether a player is on one-way or a two-way deal).
 

tnfrs

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I inferred from what you were saying, perhaps incorrectly, that two-way contracts exist to make it possible to have players sent down (like was happening because Torts wasn't playing them). Based on the way the Flyers operate with "open checkbook" policies, I don't feel like other financial implications factor heavily into the decision process (i.e. whether a player is on one-way or a two-way deal).
its worth mentioning because zamula just signed a one way deal for 2024, he was still on a two way last year pretty sure so it factors into decisions. theres always someone signing the cheques that a GM has to answer to, president keeps the GM from going over budget but all this is besides the point i was making. all things being equal if someone is getting sent down a two way contract is good indication of where they are in the depth chart
 
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tnfrs

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You’re the guy who thinks Gauthier is going to play for the Phantoms on an ATO so he can avoid burning a year of his ELC, right?
lol no im the guy that said it was an option im sure youll go through all the comments to confirm though
 

deadhead

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I inferred from what you were saying, perhaps incorrectly, that two-way contracts exist to make it possible to have players sent down (like was happening because Torts wasn't playing them). Based on the way the Flyers operate with "open checkbook" policies, I don't feel like other financial implications factor heavily into the decision process (i.e. whether a player is on one-way or a two-way deal).
Yep. Comcast doesn't have cash flow issues.
Waivers weigh in, if they don't want to expose another player, the guy with options gets sent down.
But I think player development is the primary concern, if they don't feel the player is ready for a steady role, they'd rather have him playing in LHV.

How a player is used in a cameo gives you a clue, Foerster played 16:34 minutes a night in 8 games, tells me Torts sees him as a top 9 forward.
Zamula played 13:23 in 14 games, suggesting he's seen as a 3rd pair D-man right now.
Lycksell played 10:34 in 8 games. J Cates 5g 8:59.
Harder to judge guys in a few games at the end of the season, Desnoyers 4g 13:22. Attard 2g 16:45

Same holds for older players on the cusp:
Allison 60g 12:54
Lemieux 18g 12:43
MacEwen 46g 12:19
Bellows 27g 9:47
Laczynski 32g 9:31
Willman 9g 8:58.
 

BernieParent

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Tort's job last year wasnt to lose games, putting the kids in last year wouldnt have helped reach the goal, it was a stupid goal to try to compete but its the roster that Fletcher put together, but even if youre trying to lose you dont throw developing players to the wolves. We still have players worth keeping or trading and until the roster is narrowed down more you have give everyone the best environment to succeed, even if its at the expense of draft position. Theres 32 teams in the league, nobody is running rookies and prospects on the 4th line on a nightly basis, because they dont just play against other teams 4th lines and opposing coaches will do everything they can to get their studs out against our rookies, and whole lines of first year players and prospects will get eaten alive if theyre caught on an icing for example, you just dont do that unless players are ready.
This post reads like if we had asked ChatGPT to describe outdated hockey front-office management. Playing prospects in suboptimal lineups is not throwing them to the wolves as long as you aren't stubbornly pushing them to top line/pairing minutes despite them showing they can't handle it. And you follow-up statement about exclusively using preseason and occasional callups to gauge NHL readiness succeeds in putting small sample size on a pedestal. Players show they are ready for the NHL primarily by playing in the NHL. Some even stand out more in a better-structured system than in the AHL.
 

tnfrs

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This post reads like if we had asked ChatGPT to describe outdated hockey front-office management. Playing prospects in suboptimal lineups is not throwing them to the wolves as long as you aren't stubbornly pushing them to top line/pairing minutes despite them showing they can't handle it. And you follow-up statement about exclusively using preseason and occasional callups to gauge NHL readiness succeeds in putting small sample size on a pedestal. Players show they are ready for the NHL primarily by playing in the NHL. Some even stand out more in a better-structured system than in the AHL.
Success in the AHL doesnt equal success in the NHL and I trust the actual hockey people that are the closest to the situation to have better reads than people here dont be a silly sally, no team wants their prospects developing in sub optimal lineups, thats exactly what I mean by throwing them to the wolves. Theyve already shown they cant handle it, and theyll earn their chance when the team feels theyre ready. Its not my decision, and calling it outdated is laughable ur such a jokester sometimes
 
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Pictured: Man takes the test to be allowed to take 1 (one) NHL Defensive Zone Start.
 

deadhead

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This post reads like if we had asked ChatGPT to describe outdated hockey front-office management. Playing prospects in suboptimal lineups is not throwing them to the wolves as long as you aren't stubbornly pushing them to top line/pairing minutes despite them showing they can't handle it. And you follow-up statement about exclusively using preseason and occasional callups to gauge NHL readiness succeeds in putting small sample size on a pedestal. Players show they are ready for the NHL primarily by playing in the NHL. Some even stand out more in a better-structured system than in the AHL.
You can see a lot in a month of practice and exhibition games, not enough to make definitive prediction, but enough to know if you want to throw that player to the wolves or give him more time to develop. Players who are NHL ready jump out at you, it's not a matter of scoring, that's stochastic, but driving play, being in proper position, etc., and of course, whether they physically have a NHL skill set.

Foerster shined in the AHL, and shined in the NHL. Kept improving as the season progressed. I'm confident he'll be a solid top 9, maybe top 6 winger this season. Brink is more of a question mark, coming off the hip surgery, he's a player where camp can make a big difference, same with Attard, who improved as the year went along but is still a bit shaky defensively. Lycksell has to show he can translate his AHL production to the NHL.
 

Beef Invictus

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You can see a lot in a month of practice and exhibition games, not enough to make definitive prediction, but enough to know if you want to throw that player to the wolves or give him more time to develop. Players who are NHL ready jump out at you, it's not a matter of scoring, that's stochastic, but driving play, being in proper position, etc., and of course, whether they physically have a NHL skill set.

Foerster shined in the AHL, and shined in the NHL. Kept improving as the season progressed. I'm confident he'll be a solid top 9, maybe top 6 winger this season. Brink is more of a question mark, coming off the hip surgery, he's a player where camp can make a big difference, same with Attard, who improved as the year went along but is still a bit shaky defensively. Lycksell has to show he can translate his AHL production to the NHL.

You see way more in a month of NHL games.
 

deadhead

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Except the Flyers haven't misjudged their talent and let good players slip through their fingers like they did with Sharp, J Williams and Seidenberg.
The last decade, what players left Philly and became top players elsewhere, like say Verhaege after he went from TB to FLA.
It's more about not finding these players in the first place, either through the draft, trades or the waiver wire.
How much was bad scouting v Holmgren/Hextall making bad picks?
 

Beef Invictus

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Except the Flyers haven't misjudged their talent and let good players slip through their fingers like they did with Sharp, J Williams and Seidenberg.
The last decade, what players left Philly and became top players elsewhere, like say Verhaege after he went from TB to FLA.
It's more about not finding these players in the first place, either through the draft, trades or the waiver wire.
How much was bad scouting v Holmgren/Hextall making bad picks?

Yes they have. Just because you choose to ignore them doesn't mean it isn't there. And how about all the opportunities to identify and acquire or use better players, and they blow it and go with something worse?
 

deadhead

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Nothing is ever that simple when you're talking about developing professional athletes. Outcomes are not destined.
Hockey isn't baseball, players only spend a couple years in an organization before they sink or swim. Most players are in the CHL until 20-21 or longer in the SHL or KHL.

So I'm skeptical that an organization can destroy talent, more likely, they delay the emergence of a player until he gets into a better environment for him.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally I think player development is limited simply by the time a team has with players.
 

BernieParent

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Success in the AHL doesnt equal success in the NHL and I trust the actual hockey people that are the closest to the situation to have better reads than people here dont be a silly sally, no team wants their prospects developing in sub optimal lineups, thats exactly what I mean by throwing them to the wolves. Theyve already shown they cant handle it, and theyll earn their chance when the team feels theyre ready. Its not my decision, and calling it outdated is laughable ur such a jokester sometimes
7vzx7f.jpg


If this is a bit, please DM me and we can laugh together at my naivete. Otherwise ... o_O

I particularly enjoyed the self-defeating statement that prospects can't be allowed to play in suboptimal line-ups. Bottom line: don't play prospects in the NHL until they have enough NHL experience to be a member of an ideal roster.
 

tnfrs

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If this is a bit, please DM me and we can laugh together at my naivete. Otherwise ... o_O

I particularly enjoyed the self-defeating statement that prospects can't be allowed to play in suboptimal line-ups. Bottom line: don't play prospects in the NHL until they have enough NHL experience to be a member of an ideal roster.
at this point youre just arguing against things I wasnt saying lol where did I say they cant be allowed? youre excited to see prospects play and thats cool we all are, but theres no rush. theyll be in the lineup when theyre ready and when the team feels it will be the best timing. be patient and dont worry so much man
 
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