Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid: Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions

[Lindberg]

Personally I don’t think there is a bright future for them. I’ve seen someone say Attard had 20 goal potential. I think it any of them become a good 2nd pairing it has to be considered an overwhelming success. Most likely they will be names in the wind for future fans.

When someone says 20 goal potential it's almost worth dismissing that person's ability to judge any prospect. Only a few defensemen a year even hit that (sometimes none).

Getting any sort of real mileage out of 2nd round picks and such is good value.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Personally I don’t think there is a bright future for them. I’ve seen someone say Attard had 20 goal potential. I think it any of them become a good 2nd pairing it has to be considered an overwhelming success. Most likely they will be names in the wind for future fans.

Don't extrapolate one person saying Attard has 20 goal upside to the community here in general, only the outliers would say something like that.

As far as Zamula and Andrea I think most think they realistically have 4/5 upside with Andrea having a reasonable chance at being a solid 2nd pairing guy.

Those seem to be pretty realistic expectations for 2 guys that have played well at all the lower levels/looked good when given a cup of coffee.

What makes you so pessimist about them that you don't think either has the chance to reach that potential?

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

That's a hell of an assumption.

And your rebuttal boils down to "Sure, you can point to all these examples proving your point, but it doesn't matter."

It does matter, though. It's made the team worse and less likely to win, and agonizingly unfun to watching. Winning and fun are the whole point. Choosing to play inferior players over superior players just because they're inexperienced is objectively bad, and matters.

It really isn't a hell of an assumption. For the most part these guys are who they are. Some of them are able to make the jump right away and others can't. Sometimes you jump the gun one way or another either they come up a little early or should have been brought up sooner, but there isn't a one-size fits all method. Even if you want to pretend like that isn't the case, it is AT LEAST as likely that their outcomes wouldn't be different than it is that they would be different.

As to the second part, yes that is accurate. Why? Because there are just as many examples of the opposite scenario playing out and guys play right away. Which goes back to the above paragraph...some guys are ready and some guys aren't. There are absolutely examples where someone should have been playing over a veteran and there are absolutely examples of guys jumping right to the NHL (or the other popular myth that the Flyers hate small players, despite regularly drafting and playing small players). The existence of one doesn't negate the other. It's almost like...wait for it...these things are evaluated on a case by case basis.

 

[tnfrs]

Anybody taking bets on whos getting suspended later today? Is this Carter Hart's last day as a Flyer?

 

[iceman42]

Anybody taking bets on whos getting suspended later today? Is this Carter Hart's last day as a Flyer?

Or if they are even going to announce it

 

[tnfrs]

Or if they are even going to announce it

they said theyre doing some kind of press release at 4:55pm EST today which is a super suspicious time and date on a friday but thats the word

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

they said theyre doing some kind of press release at 4:55pm EST today which is a super suspicious time and date on a friday but thats the word

Because Jamey Baskow mentioned that time as a joke because they're going to bury it or was something else mentioned?

 

[tnfrs]

Because Jamey Baskow mentioned that time as a joke because they're going to bury it or was something else mentioned?

i have no idea who that is

 

[FlyerNutter]

It really isn't a hell of an assumption. For the most part these guys are who they are. Some of them are able to make the jump right away and others can't. Sometimes you jump the gun one way or another either they come up a little early or should have been brought up sooner, but there isn't a one-size fits all method. Even if you want to pretend like that isn't the case, it is AT LEAST as likely that their outcomes wouldn't be different than it is that they would be different.

As to the second part, yes that is accurate. Why? Because there are just as many examples of the opposite scenario playing out and guys play right away. Which goes back to the above paragraph...some guys are ready and some guys aren't. There are absolutely examples where someone should have been playing over a veteran and there are absolutely examples of guys jumping right to the NHL (or the other popular myth that the Flyers hate small players, despite regularly drafting and playing small players). The existence of one doesn't negate the other. It's almost like...wait for it...these things are evaluated on a case by case basis.

I’ll actually agree with you in the sense that I think the scouting department is a much bigger issue than the development staff. Not to say that the latter isn’t a problem - but the Flyers scouts have sat on a pedestal for far too long.

No idea why because they have unearthed a whole lot of meh. It’s one of the biggest issues with the team.

 

[tnfrs]

Because Jamey Baskow mentioned that time as a joke because they're going to bury it or was something else mentioned?

i see what you mean now, lol thats pretty much the only place its mentioned everything else references back to it so ya maybe ya

 

[deadhead]

I’ll actually agree with you in the sense that I think the scouting department is a much bigger issue than the development staff. Not to say that the latter isn’t a problem - but the Flyers scouts have sat on a pedestal for far too long.

No idea why because they have unearthed a whole lot of meh. It’s one of the biggest issues with the team.

I'm not sure it's the scouts so much as organizational philosophy, until Flahr came on board.
Hextall drafted a lot of big forwards with limited speed and skill in the middle rounds, and reached for Ratcliffe. Can't think JOB was a scouting decision either. He and Holmgren were generally allergic to smaller, skilled players, though there were exceptions, Ghost in the 3rd, G late in the 1st, TK late in the first, Kase (5th)

Flahr in the first three rounds has already drafted York, Brink, Andrae, He also took Millman, Desnoyers, Gendron, Ciernek. Avon as a UDFA.
Even the bigger players have been more skilled, Foerster, Samson, Gauthier, Kaplan,
The only "old" Flyer picks have been Brodzinski (7th rd), McDonald (6th rd), Mann (7th rd).

It'll be interesting to watch if these more balanced drafts produce more talent.

 

[GKJ]

can you at least give it a chance for a few years then make the change? because there's nothing better out there.

They don’t need chances from us. They gave it to themselves. Anyone doing do unabatedly are just blind leading the blind.

We don’t know there’s nothing better out there. They didn’t do a search.

Prove yourselves right.

 

[deadhead]

When someone says 20 goal potential it's almost worth dismissing that person's ability to judge any prospect. Only a few defensemen a year even hit that (sometimes none).

Getting any sort of real mileage out of 2nd round picks and such is good value.

Potential doesn't mean a player will reach that level, rather, he has the upside to approach that sort of performance.

Attard is an exceptional shooter for a D-man, used in a role where he's the secondary puck handler and can attack the O-zone when the defense shifts to the other side, he'll get shooting opportunities, same on the PP as the 2nd D-man. Question is whether he can play defense well enough to get the opportunities to utilize that goal scoring ability. He has size, decent skater, but late bloomer who was used as a rover in college and lacks the instincts to play NHL defense. Question is whether he's dumb or just a late bloomer who can improve his defense with experience.

 

[VladDrag]

No he does not.

 

[Lindberg]

Potential doesn't mean a player will reach that level, rather, he has the upside to approach that sort of performance.

Attard is an exceptional shooter for a D-man, used in a role where he's the secondary puck handler and can attack the O-zone when the defense shifts to the other side, he'll get shooting opportunities, same on the PP as the 2nd D-man. Question is whether he can play defense well enough to get the opportunities to utilize that goal scoring ability. He has size, decent skater, but late bloomer who was used as a rover in college and lacks the instincts to play NHL defense. Question is whether he's dumb or just a late bloomer who can improve his defense with experience.

Gostisbehere is an excellent shooter and he's not a 20 goal scoring defenseman.

20 goals for a dman is freaking tough. I haven't watched Attard to form an opinion of him but c'mon man. 20 goals? That's norris level potential more or less.

This is why people argue on this forum all the time. You come out with some wacky statement like this.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Remember when we were told that DeAngelo was Makar level elite?

 

[Chinatown88]

Remember when we were told that DeAngelo was Makar level elite?

Aiyah

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Remember when we were told that DeAngelo was Makar level elite?

Generational at getting bought out, though.

 

[deadhead]

Gostisbehere is an excellent shooter and he's not a 20 goal scoring defenseman.

20 goals for a dman is freaking tough. I haven't watched Attard to form an opinion of him but c'mon man. 20 goals? That's norris level potential more or less.

This is why people argue on this forum all the time. You come out with some wacky statement like this.

Ghost had 17 goals in 64 games in 2015-16. He also has had 13 and 14 goal seasons.
In college he had 23 goals in 119 games.

Attard had 30 goals in 48 USHL games, 27 goals in 94 college games, 12 goals in 68 AHL games last year.

 

[Curufinwe]

Let's get Attarded in here

Attard is the guy who could push Risto to the third pair, and if he continues to play well in LHV, may do so by January.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Just remember people, WE are the ones that get accused of overrating prospects.

 

[tnfrs]

Let's get Attarded in here

that doesnt seem like a super hot take. Risto ended up having a better season than most people expected but if he hadnt Torts for sure would have scratched him for someone in the pipe.

 

[Curufinwe]

Nah, it was crazy hot. Attard played 2 games, both in April after he turned 24 years old.

He didn't get close to pushing Risto anywhere, and he certainly wasn't a more ready NHL prospect than York.

 

[tnfrs]

Nah, it was crazy hot. Attard played 2 games, both in April after he turned 24 years old.

He didn't get close to pushing Risto anywhere, and he certainly wasn't a more ready NHL prospect than York.

being a better prospect than York, thats a hot take. But getting time over risto wouldnt have surprised me if Risto had been a dumpster fire. Im actually surprised they didnt find more opportunities to call up Attard and Ginning, and if they actually thought Attard was hot gabage they wouldnt have given him another deal so its lots of mixed messages

 

[freakydallas13]

Remember when we were told that DeAngelo was Makar level elite?

Hayes at 4 million is a steal