Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid: Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions

[deadhead]

Maroon? You're also leaving out how nearly every promising prospect on the team always gets here and becomes less than they were imagined to be. Not to mention the lack of breakout players that the Flyers build into much more than they were when the team drafted them.

Maroon was long ago and far away, and that was on him, he had a drinking problem.

 

[tucson83]

I want the team to be good and I dislike seeing bad things happen to it because incompetent people run wild.

Wanting to see them win does not make me a bad fan.

can you at least give it a chance for a few years then make the change? because there's nothing better out there.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Maroon was long ago and far away, and that was on him, he had a drinking problem.

Yes truly the team bears no fault for damned near every prospect who isn't too good to fail being disappointing

 

[deadhead]

What he means is most of the remaining picks were not even close to bpa, Bonk, wasn't bpa, his rankings were so sporadic that he was ranked 24-60 Gabe was clearly bpa as well as gulyayev,and then the goalies back to back? Yeah that was stupidity, dragicevic still on the board and you take goalies, not even top rated goalies, idk why people are so blind in giving this regime a chance, when theyre showing the same incompetence as we have seen for years.
The problem is Staal will be HANDED a spot, kids can't beat him out if not given a fair chance, I mean they had to beat Braun out last year, and they weren't given a chance, if there was a fair chance given out, people wouldn't be so annoyed about it, but veteran presence is to important to the flyers

Uh, they were top rated goalies and BPA where they were picked - just b/c you wanted an offensive first player doesn't make them bad picks.

Kids didn't beat out Braun last year? When York came up he played 19:39 and paired with Provorov on the 1st pair.
Attard wasn't ready, Zamula struggled, then got sick in LHV and didn't come around until late spring. They weren't going to rush Ginning.
Seeler was more of a block than Braun, but he was an excellent #6 D-man who was second in xGFrel among all Flyer D-men last year (after York).

 

[GapToothedWonder]

its really not worth trying to convince someon who thinks this is a new Era..

the same results will come, just like they always do with this Org.

"ok look we need to purge more new cancer from the lockerroom and rebuild the culture"

you can put that statement on basicly every years end of season presser

Could be straight out of the summer of 2011.

 

[Magua]

No team seriously rebuilding has a laughable internal 3 year timeline from the jump. The Flyers operate in two ways: half-assed and delusional. You have the new management brigade waxing nostalgic for packed houses. And you better believe, like Veruca Salt, they want it NOW. Why would they not trade Hart? Or Laughton? Or Konecny? Because they think this team will be competitive by 2025-2026, and they think maybe these players will be a part of that. 65 year old Tortorella can write all the letters he wants while trying to save his job, but the man was so exasperated last season he took 2 weeks off from coaching. The front office believes he's a winning culture guru, so that's also playing a part here in the timeline and assessment of roster pieces.

Provorov -- not so secretly -- was not well liked in the room. That trade (an okay, not great one) was a mutual parting. The forward group could be better than last year, with a little health and internal growth; the defense is pretty messy but Sanheim not having a career worst year could offset that. I don't care that they dumped 3 malcontents -- it looks closer to status quo than a rebuild. These were not particularly positive win value players either. They just played a lot, got paid a lot, or were acquired for a lot.

 

[Lindberg]

Here come the strawman arguments:

"You don't even like this team"
"Hayes is trash who cares what he was traded for"
"You'll complain no matter what the team does"

Etc.

Anything to avoid questioning the team.

If Marc Staal is on a retirement tour and you can't out perform him then perhaps the AHL is the spot for you.

Who is THE prospect this team is missing out on? Nobody.

Cates, York, Allison are on the roster. It's not like there's some superstar that is getting buried in the AHL. If the Flyers prospect is that good, they'll get their chance. I'm convinced now that this forum is a sounding board just to project the past decade of disappointment.

How many players have complained about the prospect development of this organization? I can safely say Jared McCann complained about the awfulness of the Canucks prospect development.

This organization is probably somewhere in the "average" department of prospect/player development but that's not a good slogan to go complaining about.

 

[Lindberg]

Yandle averaged 13:35 minutes, when York came up, he averaged 19:05. Maybe they just didn't feel York was ready?

The issue with Zamula I think is more about whether he's strong enough to play a regular role at the NHL level, .

The only players Yandle actually blocked were Seeler and Connauton at 3LHD.

No the Flyers just hate young players and improving their chances to win. They just like being dickheads.

That's why they buried Owen Tippett as soon they got him.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Le sigh.

 

[Chinatown88]

Le sigh.

Hey that's my bit!

Also, oy vey.

 

[trostol]

Everyone saying it's still early and we can move X at the TDL keeps forgetting...one bad injury...a crappy season and that haul for this guy or that turns into having to retain or getting a really craptastic package back...and then will say "should have moved them earlier"

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I think this forum tends to exaggerate the problem significantly and over value the prospects.

Players that can step into the NHL immediately and be impactful get their chances. The NHL is a significant jump from juniors and often times players need to put on weight/muscle and have an environment to improve upon their player before transitioning to the NHL.

I'd say the Flyers are terrible at development if they just threw any first round pick in the NHL and expected them to perform.

This is accurate. You name the prospect dating back to like the days of Sam Morin and and it was all about patience and "defensemen take longer to develop" or "big guys take longer to develop" then all the sudden the mantra switched to complaining about rookies not getting a shot immediately and "THe flYErS HaTE YOuNg pLAYeRs" despite routinely playing young players.

That's not to say the Flyers are great at development but I think it is more a symptom of being bad at drafting than it is about being bad at development. Just look at the guys they've picked going back to Sam Morin (maybe earlier he's just the earliest flop I can recall). The ones that were good enough to play, played. The ones that weren't, didn't. They picked guys like Provorov over Rantanen. They picked York over Caufield. They picked Patrick over Heiskanen or Makar. They picked Rubstov (and LaBerge) over DeBrincat and others. I'm sure there are more examples but that is the root of it. It is highly unlikely that any of the guys they picked that flopped would be flourishing elsewhere or that the guys they passed on would be shitty here.

 

[Lindberg]

Le sigh.

I'm still waiting for that prospect who didn't get his chance and got moved to another club. I'll wait.

They moved out Provorov and TDA from the roster this year. Injuries will and do happen. The quality players will get their chance.

This forum bashed the Laughton contract when it got signed and now they can't wait to trade him for what his return is. This forum has some incredibly short term bias memory.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If Marc Staal is on a retirement tour and you can't out perform him then perhaps the AHL is the spot for you.

Who is THE prospect this team is missing out on? Nobody.

Cates, York, Allison are on the roster. It's not like there's some superstar that is getting buried in the AHL. If the Flyers prospect is that good, they'll get their chance. I'm convinced now that this forum is a sounding board just to project the past decade of disappointment.

How many players have complained about the prospect development of this organization? I can safely say Jared McCann complained about the awfulness of the Canucks prospect development.

This organization is probably somewhere in the "average" department of prospect/player development but that's not a good slogan to go complaining about.

The problem is the bolded doesn't matter. Outplaying veterans doesn't matter. Prospects do it annually and can't even get a decent tryout. York was better than most of the defense but he was more mature than the coach, so he was sent down. You're assuming a level of meritocracy that doesn't exist in this team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is accurate. You name the prospect dating back to like the days of Sam Morin and and it was all about patience and "defensemen take longer to develop" or "big guys take longer to develop" then all the sudden the mantra switched to complaining about rookies not getting a shot immediately and "THe flYErS HaTE YOuNg pLAYeRs" despite routinely playing young players.

That's not to say the Flyers are great at development but I think it is more a symptom of being bad at drafting than it is about being bad at development. Just look at the guys they've picked going back to Sam Morin (maybe earlier he's just the earliest flop I can recall). The ones that were good enough to play, played. The ones that weren't, didn't. They picked guys like Provorov over Rantanen. They picked York over Caufield. They picked Patrick over Heiskanen or Makar. They picked Rubstov (and LaBerge) over DeBrincat and others. I'm sure there are more examples but that is the root of it. It is highly unlikely that any of the guys they picked that flopped would be flourishing elsewhere or that the guys they passed on would be shitty here.

No, that isn't what happened. What happened is the Flyers began repeatedly demonstrating preference for inferior veterans over better and cheaper younger players. Many of these marginal prospects will only have a 2-3 year window where they're viable at their peak, and the Flyers burn that up until they're washed instead of churning them in the NHL to fill out the roster. They prefer to pay more for worse veterans for cultural reasons. It's woefully inefficient and it's a major reason they've become so bad in the cap era.


This has been explained to you nonstop for ten years now, what are you struggling to get? How come you're still completely misunderstanding and mischaracterizing this? Let me help.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I'm still waiting for that prospect who didn't get his chance and got moved to another club.

This forum bashed the Laughton contract when it got signed and now they can't wait to trade him for what his return is. This forum has some incredibly short term bias memory.

Laughton, good point.

He’s only a guy that a good portion of us wanted traded years ago prior to the expansion draft at the TDL so that they could get pieces for him and then possibly re-sign him to trade him again in the future.

That Laughton? Instead they’re going to f*** up how they’ve dealt with him twice.

Yeah, this forum sure has an incredibly short term bias memory.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm still waiting for that prospect who didn't get his chance and got moved to another club. I'll wait.

They moved out Provorov and TDA from the roster this year. Injuries will and do happen. The quality players will get their chance.

This forum bashed the Laughton contract when it got signed and now they can't wait to trade him for what his return is. This forum has some incredibly short term bias memory.

It wasn't even that long ago.

 

[Lindberg]

It wasn't even that long ago.

NAK? Really?

The one guy who played on the Avs for a singular season. If he's the "biggest" failure of this organization you guys really need to pick your points better.

The Toronto Maple Leafs with Kyle Dubas released him! Gasp.

 

[BernieParent]

Taking any team's early first round selection off of the board makes their draft look different and less promising. How do the Hawks look without Bedard? CBJ w/o Fantilli? ANA w/o Carlsson? You can't take MM off of the board. Other teams passed on him. The Flyers could have done it as well but took the bold step and nabbed him. My call is that MM is the second best player in the draft and if he plays in the NHL, it will be as a Flyer. Briere deserves credit for making the pick.

Brière also deserves credit for fostering a favourable impression of the Flyers by Michkov. It is pretty apparent that Montreal and Arizona took him off their lists because he showed he wasn't interested in them. As much as I share in the criticism of the current FO, Brière et al played this draft pick very well.

 

[freakydallas13]

If Marc Staal is on a retirement tour and you can't out perform him then perhaps the AHL is the spot for you.

Who is THE prospect this team is missing out on? Nobody.

Cates, York, Allison are on the roster. It's not like there's some superstar that is getting buried in the AHL. If the Flyers prospect is that good, they'll get their chance. I'm convinced now that this forum is a sounding board just to project the past decade of disappointment.

How many players have complained about the prospect development of this organization? I can safely say Jared McCann complained about the awfulness of the Canucks prospect development.

This organization is probably somewhere in the "average" department of prospect/player development but that's not a good slogan to go complaining about.

You keep bringing up Marc Staal and how players who aren't better than him don't deserve to be in the NHL, it's this weird thing you keep falling back on. Who are you arguing with? What HF board users are clamouring for players inferior to Staal to be permanent fixtures in the lineup? We just want the team to play the kids in the NHL and find out if their good or not. If they're not? Sure. Play Marc Staal 20 minutes a night, I really dgaf.

People point out the problem is the team is unwilling to even give prospects a chance to see if they are better than the Staals of the world. They staple plug journeymen to the lineup even when the prospects are better, and give kids scrap minutes for 3 or 4 games before sending them back down and declaring them not good enough. That's what people complain about.

So miss me with this "better than Staal" straw-man.

 

[Beef Invictus]

NAK? Really?

The one guy who played on the Avs for a singular season. If he's the "biggest" failure of this organization you guys really need to pick your points better.

The Toronto Maple Leafs with Kyle Dubas released him! Gasp.

My man, being able to find, develop, and use those guys on the cheap is a vital skill that the Flyers lack entirely.

Also, you don't get to demand an example, get an example, and pretend it doesn't count. What's that about?

 

[Beef Invictus]

can you at least give it a chance for a few years then make the change? because there's nothing better out there.

Why do they need a chance for a few years? These people have already been here for years. Nothing is new or different.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You keep bringing up Marc Staal and how players who aren't better than him don't deserve to be in the NHL, it's this weird thing you keep falling back on. Who are you arguing with? What HF board users are clamouring for players inferior to Staal to be permanent fixtures in the lineup? We just want the team to play the kids in the NHL and find out if their good or not. If they're not? Sure. Play Marc Staal 20 minutes a night, I really dgaf.

People point out the problem is the team is unwilling to even give prospects a chance to see if they are better than the Staals of the world. They staple plug journeymen to the lineup even when the prospects are better, and give kids scrap minutes for 3 or 4 games before sending them back down and declaring them not good enough. That's what people complain about.

So miss me with this "better than Staal" straw-man.

The team refuses to find upside.

 

[Magua]

Did you read how gushing the team was about Marc Staal? They were so giddy they couldn't even believe he signed with them. Why on earth are we going to approach his usage with rationality and meritocracy? Keith Jones spent his air time these Cup finals speaking about how integral Staal was. He's like Seeler on steroids for them, and we saw how Seeler's usage went with young players.

I'm still waiting for that prospect who didn't get his chance and got moved to another club. I'll wait.

It’s silly to make this the parameters for the Flyers poor development. They haven't traded many young players, period. Dating back to Hextall. Most of the players moved had career-altering injuries. Eventually getting a chance (how do you define chance?) in some pigeonholed usage =/= achieving upside.

The Flyers have had a long pattern in the same timeframe of not providing ample usage to their young players. We can't simulate this shit in a computer, so we don't know how much this affected upsides. Certainly, no Flyers prospect has really exceeded their ceilings. From keeping Sanheim in the AHL for Manning, to Couturier not getting scoring usage until year 6, to York-Yandle, the Frost debacle this year (and if not for Briere, he probably would've been the guy moved to another club). Not all players are too good to fail -- these guys were. How this team can enter next season with Foerster and Lycksell not in the lineup is beyond me, in relation to not trading Laughton, signing Deslauriers, signing Hathaway.....

It's not just in the NHL. Anyone who follows the Phantoms can tell you they let the veterans eat up every last usage scrap. It directly correlated for years with young players not getting scoring boosts down there. No one can definitively say what the effect was with that in a skill sense. It certainly was a negative for value building.

 

[Lindberg]

My man, being able to find, develop, and use those guys on the cheap is a vital skill that the Flyers lack entirely.

Also, you don't get to demand an example, get an example, and pretend it doesn't count. What's that about?

There's really no success story there. He's on his 4th team. You act like the Flyers pissed a gem hidden in the rough. He had his chances here.

The guy isn't Michael Raffl / Matt Read 2.0