Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[bennysflyers16]

I have my personal issues with this style of examination, but I will once again use it to point out that one of the few big hits in here was the only other example of a Buium-like draft day fall for a Defenseman. There aren’t even any misses (yet). It’s just Dobson and Buium.

Was Morrisey a drop ?

I recall someone here adamant that he should of went way higher and wanted us to take him.

He's insisted that management is correct and knows best for at least 6 years now. He defended Fletcher up to the end and beyond, and that same management group minus CF remains in place.

The current state of the team proves that is wrong. And yet, the unquestioning trust continues. I think baseless zealous faith is very negative, personally. Not at all like my own endless open-eyed positivity.

I get being a homer and wanting to believe they will be better, hell deep down that is me.

But the proof is right there for us to see just how incompetent they have been and are proving to still be.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Was Morrisey a drop ?

I recall someone here adamant that he should have went way higher and wanted us to take him.

The opposite. I can check on McKenzie’s final rankings, but I know he was somewhere in the late teens and obviously went 13th.

Remember I’m specifically talking about draft night drops, not guys who had poor draft seasons. Morrisey is a home run basically no matter where he was taken.

 

[flyersnorth]

I have my personal issues with this style of examination, but I will once again use it to point out that one of the few big hits in here was the only other example of a Buium-like draft day fall for a Defenseman. There aren’t even any misses (yet). It’s just Dobson and Buium.

That's fair - I didn't mean it to be definitive or indicative, but more of a cursory look at what was drafted at those spots over the past decade and actual results so far.

It's possible to acquire elite level talent in those slots, but it just hasn't been likely.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Drysdale says he had a core injury since the first game of the season with Anaheim last year

inB4 reinjured in less then 10 games

 

[Cody Webster]

Well, let's see, Trostol. We had posters implying I lied.

Then I link an interview with Jones a day after the trade, where he says this started over a year from the trade in January 2023, & your response is that Jones is lying.

Briere said the same thing in interviews that the problem started just a few months after the draft.

How about you are wrong?

Here. Listen to this. Keith Jones getting interviewed the day after the Gauthier trade, which occurred on January 9, 2023.

The host flat out asks Jones when the first sign of this started with Gauthier, and Jones replies:

"Well, believe it or not, guys, I heard it about a year and a bit ago when I was doing TV. I heard about it up in the booth up in press row. And especially on the TV side a lot of information flows your way. So I had a heads up that there was a problem. That there was a high likelihood the player wasn't going to join the Flyers. So I wasn't overly shocked to find out shortly after I had taken the job that we had an issue."

And Briere has said the same thing about being aware of a problem in Gauthier wanting to sign just a few months after the draft.

Keith Jones On The Cutter Gauthier Trade - Kincade & Salciunas

Keith Jones joins the show to discuss the Cutter Gauthier trade, and how it all went down.

omny.fm

Edit: And I'm sure there will be crickets now, or the classic, "Well Jones was lying" defense.

Have you ever thought maybe you're wrong because your timeline is a year off? He got traded January 2024, not January 2023....

 

[Ghosts Beer]

you are so adamant that management is right that you are blinded. We know that Jones has stretched the truth already to shine the team in a better light..we have proof of that..so why is it you so heartedly believe he is telling the truth here? are you that stubborn..that devoted to this management of the team for the past several decades that you cant even slightly sit back and think...hey maybe they are lying

They have the first-hand knowledge. Not you.

A very convenient trend on this board goes as follows:

1) Ghosts Beer, you are lying

2) I post evidence: Well, then management is lying

 

[BiggE]

inB4 reinjured in less then 10 games

My over/under on the combined total games played by Drysdale/Fisto/Couts: 125

And that’s being optimistic

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Have you ever thought maybe you're wrong because your timeline is a year off? He got traded January 2024, not January 2023....

Ah, so now you have to resort to nitpicking over a typo.

The obvious point from the interview I cited was that this started over a year before the Jan 2024 trade. Which means late fall 2022. Months after Cutter was drafted.

 

[Larry44]

The opposite. I can check on McKenzie’s final rankings, but I know he was somewhere in the late teens and obviously went 13th.

Remember I’m specifically talking about draft night drops, not guys who had poor draft seasons. Morrisey is a home run basically no matter where he was taken.

I was hoping for Zadorov instead of Morin, but Morrissey turned out to be the best of the lot.

You can play this game all day, but the reach for Morin was derailed by bad knees. Too bad.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2013e.html

Shea Theodore turned out to be one of the best D in the first round, imho,

After the first, it's pretty barren. Pesce at 66. Ryan Graves at 110, Clifton 133, Soucy 137 and at 206 Weeger was good drafting.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Josh Morrissey was the 27th ranked *North American* skater by Central Scouting.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1682278-josh-morrissey-prospect-profile-for-winnipeg-jets-1st-round-pick

 

[Curufinwe]

Cutter Gauthier announced he was returning to BC for a 2nd season on 3/22/2023. The Flyers still had 12 games left.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Here. Listen to this. Keith Jones getting interviewed the day after the Gauthier trade, which occurred on January 9, 2023.

The host flat out asks Jones when the first sign of this started with Gauthier, and Jones replies:

"Well, believe it or not, guys, I heard it about a year and a bit ago when I was doing TV. I heard about it up in the booth up in press row. And especially on the TV side a lot of information flows your way. So I had a heads up that there was a problem. That there was a high likelihood the player wasn't going to join the Flyers. So I wasn't overly shocked to find out shortly after I had taken the job that we had an issue."

And Briere has said the same thing about being aware of a problem in Gauthier wanting to sign just a few months after the draft.

Keith Jones On The Cutter Gauthier Trade - Kincade & Salciunas

Keith Jones joins the show to discuss the Cutter Gauthier trade, and how it all went down.

omny.fm

Edit: And I'm sure there will be crickets now, or the classic, "Well Jones was lying" defense.

Well, unless we all time-warped, that trade occurred on January 9, 2024. If Jones heard about it "a year and a bit ago while doing TV" that would be early in the '22-23 season, before discussions would have been had about an ELC. If the fallout happens as a result over disagreements about signing post-freshman year (March '23) and then they formally get a request (according to some) in May '23, then the "few" in Briere's "few months" is stretching to the absolute limit—since most people don't consider 11 "a few." If not lying, he's being opaque in that instance.

So, no, nothing here really adds up when you start lining up the Flyers messaging around it. Which happens when a bunch of people are all sent out at once to tell a story with questionable veracity.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Well, unless we all time-warped, that trade occurred on January 9, 2024. If Jones heard about it "a year and a bit ago while doing TV" that would be early in the '22-23 season, before discussions would have been had about an ELC. If the fallout happens as a result over disagreements about signing post-freshman year (March '23) and then they formally get a request (according to some) in May '23, then the "few" in Briere's "few months" is stretching to the absolute limit—since most people don't consider 11 "a few." If not lying, he's being opaque in that instance.

So, no, nothing here really adds up when you start lining up the Flyers messaging around it. Which happens when a bunch of people are all sent out at once to tell a story.

So what's your point, here? That Gauthier couldn't have been able to indicate to the Flyers that he wasn't interested in signing in the fall after he was drafted?

This is what we've got:

1) Ghosts Beer is lying

2) OK, Ghosts Beer posted the interview with Jones, but Jones was lying

3) Gauthier couldn't possibly have given indications to the Flyers he didn't want to sign in the fall after he was drafted

 

[trostol]

It's amazing that we have evidence that management has lied but that's clearly not enough

I hope for GB's sake they win a cup soon..cause clearly he isn't gonna stop drinking the New Era of Orange juice that he and the other stepfords are drinking

Also amazing that a majority of people here see it but we're the ones that have issues

 

[Rich Nixon]

3) Gauthier couldn't possibly have given indications to the Flyers he didn't want to sign in the fall after he was drafted

He could have, but that makes everything more confusing when you look at what the possible reasons might have been, based on reporting by people like Friedman (who don't, y'know, work for the Flyers).

Their line has been "HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE A FLYER HE LIED TO US!" and they've been placing that timeline way early in his freshman year at BC, which makes little sense, especially given that Gauthier attended development camp that summer and himself said that it was "multiple things" that hit him over the "year and a half" since he'd been drafted.

Now, there is a possibility that he'd inquired about signing immediately after his freshman year before that year even started, and they could've shut that down right away, and problems could have begun there (so, fall '22). But at that point, Fletcher is still GM. And I think if issues started under the Fletcher regime, they'd have been far more likely to just say that outright.

The most credible insider information, to me, is what Friedman reported:

• They spoke after Gauthier's college season ended on 3/11/23.
• Gauthier wanted to join the team at that point.
• The Flyers didn't want to burn a year of his ELC and/or face a cap overage
• The Flyers said they could maybe give him an AHL PTO for the remainder of the season, which obviously didn't happen
• Gauthier informed them in May '23 that he would not sign with them

Given that Chuck Fletcher was fired on 3/10/23, that would mean this conversation happened in the first week—first couple days, even—of Briere's GM tenure.

So if you had to ask me to guess a narrative, it would be that newbie GM didn't know how to read the situation, was trying to play a little moneypuck with the cap, and didn't realize that the haughty douchebag 5th overall pick was going to be offended by an AHL PTO offer. And was stunned to find out he was. And that the team's full-court press in the media after trading him was distraction for the fact that overall franchise dysfunction/front office turnover resulted in an unprepared new GM walking into an important conversation that went totally sideways and cost them a top prospect.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

He could have, but that makes everything more confusing when you look at what the possible reasons might have been, based on reporting by people like Friedman (who don't, y'know, work for the Flyers).

Their line has been "HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE A FLYER HE LIED TO US!" and they've been placing that timeline way early in his freshman year at BC, which makes little sense, especially given that Gauthier attended development camp that summer and himself said that it was "multiple things" that hit him over the "year and a half" since he'd been drafted.

Now, there is a possibility that he'd inquired about signing immediately after his freshman year before that year even started, and they could've shut that down right away, and problems could have begun there. But at that point, Fletcher is still GM. And I think if issues started under the Fletcher regime, they'd have been far more likely to just say that outright.

yep as would have passed the buck 100%

 

[TheKingPin]

I was wondering the same thing, too. Wonder if negotiation is held up after supposedly asking for $10+ and then seeing one of his comparables in Reinhart ended up signing for $8.625M. Wonder if it gets resolved in the summer or Konecny’s camp goes into next season without an extension in place with the hopes of making more $$$ during/after a contract year.

I am hoping both sides are going for the moon and it results in an agreement for a trade deadline move. There shouldn’t be a lot of motivation to compromise to get him signed. It’s not a no brainer like Laughton but you should still trade him unless it’s a very good deal for the Flyers

 

[Ghosts Beer]

He could have, but that makes everything more confusing when you look at what the possible reasons might have been, based on reporting by people like Friedman (who don't, y'know, work for the Flyers).

Their line has been "HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE A FLYER HE LIED TO US!" and they've been placing that timeline way early in his freshman year at BC, which makes little sense, especially given that Gauthier attended development camp that summer and himself said that it was "multiple things" that hit him over the "year and a half" since he'd been drafted.

Now, there is a possibility that he'd inquired about signing immediately after his freshman year before that year even started, and they could've shut that down right away, and problems could have begun there. But at that point, Fletcher is still GM. And I think if issues started under the Fletcher regime, they'd have been far more likely to just say that outright.

The most credible insider information, to me, is what Friedman reported:

• They spoke after Gauthier's college season ended on 3/11/23.
• Gauthier wanted to join the team at that point.
• The Flyers didn't want to burn a year of his ELC and/or face a cap overage
• The Flyers said they could maybe give him an AHL PTO for the remainder of the season, which obviously didn't happen
• Gauthier informed them in May '23 that he would not sign with them

Given that Chuck Fletcher was fired on 3/10/23, that would mean this conversation happened in the first week—first couple days, even—of Briere's GM tenure.

So if you had to ask me to guess a narrative, it would be that newbie GM didn't know how to read the situation, was trying to play a little moneypuck with the cap, and didn't realize that the haughty douchebag 5th overall pick was going to be offended by an AHL PTO offer. And was stunned to find out he was. And that the team's full-court press in the media after trading him was distraction for the fact that overall franchise dysfunction/front office turnover resulted in an unprepared new GM walking into an important conversation that went totally sideways and cost them a top prospect.

Cutter did lie. He told the Flyers in pre-draft interviews he wanted to play for them. Said on draft night he was born to be a Flyer. And a few months later indicated he didn't want to sign. And then formally requested a trade in May 2023.

But yeah. He's the good guy. Jones and Briere and Ghosts Beer are lying.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Cutter did lie. He told the Flyers in pre-draft interviews he wanted to play for them. Said on draft night he was born to be a Flyer. And a few months later indicated he didn't want to sign. And then formally requested a trade in May 2023.

But yeah. He's the good guy. Jones and Briere and Ghosts Beer are lying.

You keep repeating a "few months after" and I am repeatedly showing you timelines that really stretch the meaning of "few." The only source for "few months" is, if you follow what I'm laying out, the guy who may've unintentionally f***ed it up.

And what part of "haughty douchebag" did you interpret as "good guy"? He's a haughty douchebag. But guess what: A lot of elite athletes are. And part of managing a team full of them is knowing how to work with them.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

The guy severly lacks hockey IQ, I'm not that worried about losing CG, did we lose the trade? Probably, but he's not a main piece on a championship team that much is clear. Unless he gets a lobotamy and somehow gets smarter and better at hockey. He's a got a good shot and a big body, I've been over it for awhile now.

 

[bleachdrinker]

I am hoping both sides are going for the moon and it results in an agreement for a trade deadline move. There shouldn’t be a lot of motivation to compromise to get him signed. It’s not a no brainer like Laughton but you should still trade him unless it’s a very good deal for the Flyers

Agreed, think it’s best for both parties if they go their separate ways. By the time this team is ready to compete, they’re not going to be getting additional value from a Konecny contract unless he’s taking a massive discount.

 

[trostol]

Not sure you can go into the season with TK uncertainty

 

[Danko]

deadhead, deadhead, deadhead

 

[bleachdrinker]

Not sure you can go into the season with TK uncertainty

In an ideal scenario, absolutely not, but I can easily see a situation where everyone sits on their hands this summer and it turns into the org telling us “we’ll see where it goes” regarding his contract heading into training camp.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

deadhead, deadhead, deadhead