wankstifier
All glory to the harvest god
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Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles
- Thread starter GKJ
- Start date
No, they don't. They had another 2 years contractually. They had until the 2 year mark in practicality.
Suppose after 2 years, CG just says "F it, I'm already at 2 years, I'm not going to sign with anybody and just decide where I want to go after 2 more years, since I've waited this long." Then no team is giving anything without that surety.
We are all assuming that he'd want to get started earlier on his ELC - but guess what? If you wait till you are UFA, you don't need an ELC. You don't think somebody would take a shot at a 3M+ contract for a super high ranked prospect who has proven he can play vs men as well, that would be guaranteed vs a bonus laden one 2 years ago that he may or may not hit? I don't think money is a factor here, he'll make plenty regardless.
So at that point, you think we even get a Drysdale? We probably just get the 2nd round pick. For every other pick that wouldn't sign (granted: they weren't quite as high-end) nobody got anything but random draft picks. We got a high draft pick himself (yes, with questions) but Verbeek did us a solid here, IMO, in hindsight.
I see why they jumped on it.
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Random Forest
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Why would a team who wants Gauthier wait two years and risk competing with the rest of the league? Why would Gauthier play out his college career and lose millions of dollars of cumulative NHL earnings? It makes zero sense that that would be a risk.
It's not about risk, it's about leverage. Players only sign ELCs because they are bound to do so by the CBA in the early parts of their career. He could also sign an ELC and get hurt in year 1 and just make the base of $975k, or he could think that as an UFA, with a full suite of suitors, he could get somebody to bite on a $3-$5M contract off the bat for somebody ranked highly. Would they? I don't know, but GMs have shown to be willing to do these things to lock in their player. And he'd get to pick, rather than having Danny decide which option's he'd take.
All this is to say that regardless of the money, the threat of him declaring he won't sign anywhere is far too great, even if it's just words. Then nobody offers a return - even if that "risk" doesn't actually exist - but his value tanks. As mentioned, that's a really risky game of bluff for the organization's high draft pick.
wankstifier
All glory to the harvest god
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You are.
NCAA players become UFA after 4 years of not signing. So destination can play a role.
Yes, UFA. Not RFA.
All you get is a mid-round compensatory 2nd round pick for your troubles. This is why teams (I don't know if they're scared, but are being hesitant) with NCAA players.
Rutger McGroraty, Ryan Leonard - not signed, heading back for multiple years - at any point, they can just say, oh, that's fine, I've been here 2, 3 years, I'll just wait it out.
And it's their right to do so per the negotiated CBA, just screws over the teams.
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Curufinwe
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I really can't think of a more classic Flyers folly than rushing a trade of a blue chip asset for an injury prone RHD to help the playoff push, and then that RHD ends up only playing 24 of 42 games and also having the worst ES GF% on the defense.
Random Forest
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He is still bound by ELC rules. Just because he’s a UFA does not mean he gets a non-ELC.
This is all crazy talk anyway. Gauthier was not waiting two (and, really, three) more years to start earning an NHL wage. That’s not risk. It would be a total bluff, easily called by Briere.
Got it, thanks for the clarification.
And agree with your second point. However, IMO, the threat of not signing is big enough to deal him sooner rather than later.
Curufinwe
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It's hypothetical, but if the Flyers still held Gauthier's rights now I bet there would more than a few teams looking to trade for him, and they would be offering better than a small, injury prone RHD. I highly doubt Gauthier would want to wait till age 22 to start his NHL career. The last NCAA guy to do that was Wheeler in 2008, and there's a lot more money at stake now.
Just like with the Anaheim trade, any team trading for him would be able to know in advance that he would sign there. I think a contending team like the Rangers would have loved to add a 20 year old top forward prospect on a 3-year ELC.
Random Forest
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I don’t disagree that there is more risk than “zero”, but I just have a hard time believing his value would have dropped materially, if at all, had they waited until the summer.
I get being itchy to get to a conclusion sooner than later, but we can observe what Gauthier’s value would be now, and it’s hard to see if being any less than Drysdale+2nd. That deal would have almost definitely still been on the table *today* if Briere had waited. And he likely could have had more options available in the offseason. I defended the trade (lukewarm) when it was made, but it’s less defensible now, and I strongly believe you could have gotten better value at the draft.
wankstifier
All glory to the harvest god
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ponder719
The same New Era as before
Yep. You get a pick in the next draft at the same numerical slot in the round after you chose the player. Lose #1OA, you get #33OA as compensation. O'Brien returned the pick he did because #51 was the 19th pick of the second round.
No, you are wrong.
Literally everything that came out about this indicates that there were no issues between the team and Cutter as of when his college season ended in 2023. The team had a meeting with Cutter and his agent to discuss the future. They were all talking at that point (March 2023). Something clearly happened in that meeting (ie a difference of opinions about turning pro and burning a year off the ELC) and shortly after the World Championships in May of 2023, Cutter’s agent informed the team he wanted a trade and would not be having any further contact with the Flyers FO.
Your statement that he was unwilling to sign months after the draft is both WRONG and shows a serious lack of understanding as to how prospects going the college route are handled. He can’t sign a contract until he’s 100% done with college (because NCAA amateur rules), and he was never going to go straight to the pros, so that wouldn’t have even been discussed.
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
- Feb 10, 2014
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It's amazing to me that people don't understand this. Or, probably better stated, choose not to understand it.
Cutter wasn't going to sign. He was clear on it. He refused to talk to them.
The longer it goes on, the more everyone knows it and the more his value drops. And supposedly there were already teams who simply weren't interested because they didn't think he'd sign with them, either.
The Flyers cashed in when he was coming off a big WJC and realized his value would only go down from there. They had a bad situation and did what they could. They had been discussing trades with teams since at least the 2023 draft.
FlyerNutter
In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
It’s also an assumption that it came down to a contract issue. Personally think that’s too simple, but only speculation.
If an “outsider” like myself can easily identify the issues around the way the Flyers have been run for years, if casual hockey fans of other teams can say things like “what are they doing” (which is what I hear most up here) - it’s easy to assume Gauthier can have doubts himself.
The Flyers are only a premier franchise in the minds if the alumni that run the team. Trust that.
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
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Well, obviously not "literally everything" indicates there were no issues between the team and Cutter until Spring 2023, considering both Briere and Jones have said this dates back to just months after Cutter was drafted and when Jones was a broadcaster and Briere was an assistant.
It's not my fault you haven't listened carefully to interviews with Jones and Briere.
That’s not leverage at all. Unless you’re a weak and inexperienced front office (like the Flyers)
The Jets situation with McGroarty leaked. Do you see the Jets panicking and rushing into a bad trade? Nope.
The dispute was allegedly about money. Who in their right mind thinks a kid who’s mad about a money situation is going to wait another 2 years and cost himself more $ just out of spite?
The Flyers had a choice to either live in the uncomfortableness ala another Philly GM Daryl Morey and his standoff with Ben Simmons or to make this weak trade. They chose the weak trade.
That’s super disappointing. The only way it would be more disappointing is if they actually thought extremely highly of Drysdale and thought this was close to fair value.
Remember what I said about you burying your head in the sand? Yeah… pretty much that’s what’s playing out here.
This was the biggest Flyers story of the season. It was covered by 20+ local outlets/writers, 15+ national outlets/writers. I think it speaks volumes that not a single one of them cites the timeline you believe you heard in some mythical Briere/Jones interview. I think it also speaks volumes that everyone universally agrees that Cutter and his agent had a call with the Flyers in March 2023 (both still speaking to the org) and then his agent told them he was cutting off contact and refusing to sign in May of 2023.
Could there have been issues festering before that? Of course. But it’s pretty clear when things escalated.
I’m not going to go listen to hours of Briere and Jones interviews to try and prove your “grassy knoll” theory wrong though, so enjoy burying your head in that knoll. The Flyers FO did nothing wrong. They never do anything wrong. Just terrible luck that they drafted an awful person who decided to ghost them for sport.
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
every single time..
whatever the move is.. its always the worst one.
#darkesttimeline
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
I spit out my coffee and I wasn't even drinking coffee at one of the lines that was typed on this page.
Top notch stuff.
Top notch stuff.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
I mean, who is LeClair to a kid with zero memory of his career? Just a stranger. It's not like a top-10 draft pick will be lacking for NHL figures in his life. His dad saw the NHL. The mystique isn't gonna be there like it might be for us
Curufinwe
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Maybe he wanted to sign for a team that had won a Cup in his lifetime.
Rich Nixon
No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
I may or may not be starting a lil blog type thing to document counternarratives to the bullshit the franchise and the beats push, and that site may or may not be called "Broad Street Brain Rot," and the first piece may or may not be called "Cutter Gauthier and the New Era of Gaslighting," and I may or may not be working on it this week, so if you have any interesting nuggets I may or may not have missed from what has been publicly reported, you may or may not be welcome to post them or DM me about it.
The NHL could help a lot of teams out by adding 1 year post NCAA unless the team releases them. I still think the threat of a player sticking it out for 4 years might cause some pause but not as much as if they lost their rights for nothing.
However with NIL on the horizon for college hockey, nowhere near the level of college football, might throw another item into the conversation, see Jimmy Snuggerud getting an incentive package to go back to Minnesota instead of signing with the Blues.
However with NIL on the horizon for college hockey, nowhere near the level of college football, might throw another item into the conversation, see Jimmy Snuggerud getting an incentive package to go back to Minnesota instead of signing with the Blues.
