Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[Ghosts Beer]

If the Flyers were ready to sign him, how is that a refusal to sign him?

They didn't refuse to sign him. They offered him a contract. He instructed his agent to tell them in a Zoom call that he refused to sign & wanted a trade. He refused to talk to them when he was still playing for BC. and they sent LeClair. He refused to talk to them at the WJC, when Jones and Briere flew to Finland and tried to arrange a meeting.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

You think the Flyers are the only team that would have given Hathaway a $2.4M contract?

Is that really the position you are taking?

next summer for 2 years yes I do. He will be 34 at that time. 1 year deal was in his future

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

You're the one who claimed, "Literally everything that came out about this indicates that there were no issues between the team and Cutter as of when his college season ended in 2023."

And that's not true. Because the current GM and current President both said in separate interviews that they first became aware of Cutter's reticence to sign just a few months after the draft.

You want to act like *I'm* the conspiracy theorist? That I'm the one "burying my head in the sand"? Fine. You're the one implying that I made this up, or that both Jones and Briere are lying. The interviews are out there.

You don't have to believe Jones & Briere. But don't tell me they didn't both say it, and they're the ones with the closest knowledge.

Until you provide evidence of them saying it, they didn’t say it. It’s wild that in 2024 where everything is documented and gone through with a fine tooth comb that you actually believe there wouldn’t be one article citing this. I can absolutely believe you misconstrued something they said though.

You’re the only one claiming Cutter was refusing to sign before March 2023.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yes. Because Drysdale is confirmed to suck, he's confirmed to never be healthy, and Gauthier has more potential upside. This is easy stuff. The mystery box with potential to be a jackpot is better than the known leaky bucket of slop with a handle that breaks. He actually has pro games. Well, when he isn't missing them all because he's never available.

I don't understand what is hard to grasp about that. Another of your failed "gotchas"

Beef: Cutter is unproven. I have doubts. I need to see him play pro games.

Also Beef: It's "proven correct" that trading him for Drysdale & a 2nd is a disaster. LOL.

 

[GKJ]

Regarding NIL, I think top players like Cutter or McGroarty probably make a little more than the $70k they’d make in the minors, but significantly less than the $925k they’d make in the NHL. Which again makes their threat of not signing fairly hollow. If either of those guys is even a Kevin Hayes level player, you’re easily losing out on 5-10MM (likely more). Look at what Byfield ends up signing for this summer now that his ELC is done.

I also don’t buy for a second that we would’ve lost trade leverage when this went public. The draft would’ve opened up so many more opportunities, especially with the lack of high end center prospects. Cutter is easily a better prospect than Sennecke. Not really close.

The thing the Flyers were petrified of (and the reason they forced a bad trade) was the news of their inability to sign Cutter hanging over the franchise for months and ruining their precious culture and destroying all the hard work they did getting the authentics back on board and excited about the team.

A better management team would’ve known to ignore public sentiment. Fans are fickle and all it takes is one exciting move to get most back on board (see sixers fans when we got Harden, see Sixers fans when we got Paul George… Spike Eskin is calling Morey “better than Roseman” as of yesterday). Even if CG was still unsigned and no resolution was in sight, the majority of flyers fans would’ve been back on board and hype the second the Michkov news broke this summer.

Unfortunately it seems like the Flyers really believe culture is king. And that will likely be their downfall.

If they’re not going to play in the NHL, then it doesn’t matter. Eventually the ELC goes to 2 years. Would you leave a few bucks on the table as a 1st round pick staying at school, playing with your friends and hanging out with girls, or ride buses back and forth to Iowa and Milwaukee?

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

If they’re not going to play in the NHL, then it doesn’t matter. Eventually the ELC goes to 2 years. Would you leave a few bucks on the table as a 1st round pick staying at school, playing with your friends and hanging out with girls, or ride buses back and forth to Iowa and Milwaukee?

My comments assume the team isn’t going to cut off their nose to spite their face. If the team is trying to play hardball with their top prospect even after he’s threatened to not sign, well, then you can’t fix stupid and they deserve whatever comes to them.

I think at least in the Flyers case they would’ve been willing to guarantee Cutter a spot in the NHL to fix the rift. They’ve done just that for Michkov to get him over here. Seems like lesson learned?

If the Jets are still hellbent in McGroarty going to the AHL whenever he comes over, then yes, the threat of him not signing is real.

But in any of these disputes, if at any point the team is offering a guaranteed NHL spot, the idea of a multi-year holdout becomes laughable. Nobody gives up millions for a few extra years in college. And beyond the money, most of these guys grow up dreaming about hoisting the stanley cup, not winning an ncaa championship. They want to get to the show as quickly as possible.

 

[orangey]

They were not ready to sign him in March 2023 when he could have burned the first year of his ELC by playing 10 games. They were ready after the World Champs when he would have been signing an ELC that started with the 23-24 season.

Too little, too late.

That's kind of a high ask though on his part and to my knowledge has never happened. I mean even if they signed him immediately he would have had to have played every game possible without a single practice first, and we know how that likely would have gone with Torts. Still though he would have been signed if they had gone for it but then you run the risk of pissing him off if the coach doesn't immediately and permanently insert him into the lineup, regardless of how he plays.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Beef: Cutter is unproven. I have doubts. I need to see him play pro games.

Also Beef: It's "proven correct" that trading him for Drysdale & a 2nd is a disaster. LOL.

Beef: Cutter is unproven. I have doubts. I need to see him play pro games to see how he adapts. He could have substantial upside, far more than Drysdale.

Beef: Drysdale is proven. He has 4 years of pro hockey under his belt and is at an age where a player becomes a known commodity.

Ghosts Beer: I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, GOTCHA!


You know your failure to grasp this very basic and consistent reasoning is reflecting terribly on yourself, not on me, right?

 

[freakydallas13]

I may or may not be starting a lil blog type thing to document counternarratives to the bullshit the franchise and the beats push, and that site may or may not be called "Broad Street Brain Rot," and the first piece may or may not be called "Cutter Gauthier and the New Era of Gaslighting," and I may or may not be working on it this week, so if you have any interesting nuggets I may or may not have missed from what has been publicly reported, you may or may not be welcome to post them or DM me about it.

I may or may not be interested in this, and may or may not be interested in helping you if you may or may not require help.

Maybe. Or not.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I get a chuckle out of Scott Laughton still being here.

 

[ponder719]

I may or may not be starting a lil blog type thing to document counternarratives to the bullshit the franchise and the beats push, and that site may or may not be called "Broad Street Brain Rot," and the first piece may or may not be called "Cutter Gauthier and the New Era of Gaslighting," and I may or may not be working on it this week, so if you have any interesting nuggets I may or may not have missed from what has been publicly reported, you may or may not be welcome to post them or DM me about it.

I love the concept, feel it's important to have that counternarrative out there, but I have to admit, the temptation to go for a more directly punny name like "Broad Street Bull Ish" is overwhelming. Probably for the best that someone with more restraint than I have is writing this.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I get a chuckle out of Scott Laughton still being here.

next summer Laughton, Poehlig, and Cates will all be extended. Add those 3 to GH. Makings of a contender.

 

[Curufinwe]

That's kind of a high ask though on his part and to my knowledge has never happened. I mean even if they signed him immediately he would have had to have played every game possible without a single practice first, and we know how that likely would have gone with Torts. Still though he would have been signed if they had gone for it but then you run the risk of pissing him off if the coach doesn't immediately and permanently insert him into the lineup, regardless of how he plays.

There were 16 games left, and it wasn't a high ask at all. Brendan freaking Lemieux played all 16 games.

The coach played six forwards who would never play for the Flyers again - Allison, Bellows, Hayes, Laczynski, Lemieux, and JVR - in a total of 79 games.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

They didn't refuse to sign him. They offered him a contract. He instructed his agent to tell them in a Zoom call that he refused to sign & wanted a trade. He refused to talk to them when he was still playing for BC. and they sent LeClair. He refused to talk to them at the WJC, when Jones and Briere flew to Finland and tried to arrange a meeting.

You’re (willfully?) ignoring the timing of things and the circumstances.

By not signing Cutter to his ELC immediately after his college season ended and agreeing to burn a year, they would cost him a year of being an RFA. That’s 1-2 million down the shitter.

By not guaranteeing Cutter a spot in the NHL in 23-24, they would potentially be costing Cutter the ability to accrue an NHL season. That delays his eligibility for arbitration (costs him another couple million dollars) and delays his ability to become a UFA (if he’s a star, that’s easily 5MM++ down the drain). Had he played in the NHL for 40+ games this year, he would’ve been UFA eligible after his age 26 season. Now he will only be UFA eligible following his age 27 season.

We’ll never get confirmation that was the source of the dispute until Cutter speaks (if he ever does), but it makes a whole hell of a lot more sense than the Flyers explanation of “he ghosted us. We don’t know why.”

Telling a top prospect “we’re not guaranteeing you anything, you’re gonna earn it” sounds like exactly the kind of thing an arrogant organization that’s all in on Torts and “culture” would do. We’ve already seen the games Torts has played with other young Flyers.

 

[Curufinwe]

The Devils signed Luke Hughes and burned the first year of his ELC on 2 regular season games and 3 playoff games. Because his signing age was 20, he didn't have to play 10 games to burn the first year. But this is what smart teams do with the top 10 picks coming out of college - when they want to go to the NHL, you put them in the NHL.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[orangey]

There were 16 games left, and it wasn't a high ask at all. Brendan freaking Lemieux played all 16 games.

The coach played six forwards who would never play for the Flyers again - Allison, Bellows, Hayes, Laczynski, Lemieux, and JVR - in a total of 79 games.

I didn't realize there were 16 games left. Seems feasible then. So that was the ask and they balked or so it seems from the timing of it.

They were probably caught off guard, then were like, well we're not so sure about that but play the tourney and we'll talk afterwards and we still super love you and want to sign you and all, and he leaves the meeting like, dammit these guys didn't give me what I wanted and it's going to cost me a lot of money! That's it I'm done with these clowns.

I mean it seems plausible and also that he would frame it as it was a 'whole host of things', which in fairness is also likely true, rather than pointing to the money as the final straw, which would be a little more controversial or maybe paint him a somewhat worse light (to some).

I can see that the two sides would have reasons for wanting what they wanted at that moment (end of first NCAA season), but at the end of the day the Flyers probably should have given it to him if they wanted to sign him at all and they miscalculated. Hence the typical Flyers PR blitz when they screw up. Which they did. Again. Veruca Salt wanted it NOW and they didn't give it what it demanded. Again that's the job and they need to maintain these relationships even if they are dealing with entitled brats at times. It was a mistake/misjudgment on their part.

Likewise the trade was... Not good. That's an additional mistake and a misjudgment of what they were getting. Hard to know what else might have been on the table but I didn't like it when it happened and I like the trade even less now.

 

[mr figgles]

The Devils signed Luke Hughes and burned the first year of his ELC on 2 regular season games and 3 playoff games. Because his signing age was 20, he didn't have to play 10 games to burn the first year. But this is what smart teams do with the top 10 picks coming out of college - when they want to go to the NHL, you put them in the NHL.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

But then Danny would have had to tell Torts what to do, and you know how that would have gone.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't think Torts would have had an issue finding 10 games for Gauthier to play in. He didn't even coach all of them.

 

[Rebels57]

Thank you for this.

I know people like to shit on management for being "cheap" or not "ready to bring him on" but this article directly indicates that:

1) Gauthier chose to go back to BC
2) Flyers were ready to sign him for him to go pro

Has nothing to do with money, bonus overages, burning contract time, etc.

Obviously, there's more, but this has never felt like the Flyers made some colossal mistake - it's entirely feasible they did make mistakes, but to receive such an adverse reaction seems disproportionate.

Is it more likley that Gauthier just changed his mind, and decided he didn't want to play here? Yes. And that's actually fine. It's the process that folks have an issue with; not the decision.

Honestly, I don't even put as much blame on the Flyers for Gauthier's decision to not want to play here as others do. Somehow, someway, someone poisoned the watering-hole, and shit happens. I still blame Cutter more for that decision, just like I did at the time, and that's my prerogative. It's happening again now with his former teammate McGroarty and I see it becoming a lot more common with NCAA prospects moving forward. The only thing I am frustrated about is the return. Trading for another injury-prone defensemen was most definitely not the move.

I would have waited out the process, made him available to the highest bidder, and waited for better offers rather than operating under the illusion that his value would never be higher.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Even if this is all cutter's "fault" and the Flyers didn't botch something, it's still their fault. They drafted him. It's their organization. People really need to stop excusing their terrible results. They happen for a reason

 

[Rebels57]

They were not ready to sign him in March 2023 when he could have burned the first year of his ELC by playing 10 games. They were ready after the World Champs when he would have been signing an ELC that started with the 23-24 season.

Too little, too late.

Fletcher was fired on 3/10/2023. If i'm not mistaken, Gauthier's season ended on 3/11/2023, the very next day. I'd love to know when the first conversation between Briere and Gauthier's camp took place after Cutter's 2023 season came to an end.

 

[freakydallas13]

Let's not forget about the whole "Hayes talked Cutter out of playing in Philly" narrative that ASF ran with. Almost certainly this was from someone in the organization trying to start a smear campaign and get the propaganda train rolling in their favour, because it seems unlikely ASF would make this up on his own.

 

[Magua]

If they’re not going to play in the NHL, then it doesn’t matter. Eventually the ELC goes to 2 years. Would you leave a few bucks on the table as a 1st round pick staying at school, playing with your friends and hanging out with girls, or ride buses back and forth to Iowa and Milwaukee?

It's not a few bucks though. No one actually thinks Gauthier wouldn't have started on the Flyers in 24-25 for the majority, if not all, of the season. Either way, he would be wrapping up his 3 year ELC the same season his 2 year ELC would start if he went to UFA. We're talking 2 RFA years. If he's the player he thinks he is -- and even realistically -- that is $10MM in possible earnings lost to play with your friends and hang out with girls.

There were 16 games left, and it wasn't a high ask at all. Brendan freaking Lemieux played all 16 games.

My hunch is they thought it was a bad locker room dynamic that season and didn't want to involve Gauthier in it. That's just a feeling. Doesn't make it a smart choice, if that's a sticking point for Gauthier. But again, starting his ELC in his D+2 would put him in line with every single 19 year old NCAA top 10 pick. He would've been the exception. There has to be more. Maybe we'll never know.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Let's not forget about the whole "Hayes talked Cutter out of playing in Philly" narrative that ASF ran with. Almost certainly this was from someone in the organization trying to start a smear campaign and get the propaganda train rolling in their favour, because it seems unlikely ASF would make this up on his own.

Dan Hilferty was on that show no more than twenty minutes after ASF made that comment!

The troops were mobilized. You could say it was a blitzkrieg with the swiftness they operated under.

 

[Random Forest]

Really, people need to stop trying to transpose their pre-existing views onto the Gauthier decision. It could have been as simple as he did not like that the Flyers had just fired their GM, and he did not feel like going to an organization that was in transition and turmoil.

Not everything has a neat and tidy story that confirms your priors about Gauthier being a rotten child or Briere being a lumpy dumbass.