Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[Rebels57]

Really, people need to stop trying to transpose their pre-existing views onto the Gauthier decision. It could have been as simple as he did not like that the Flyers had just fired their GM, and he did not feel like going to an organization that was in transition and turmoil.

Not everything has a neat and tidy story that confirms your priors about Gauthier being a rotten child or Briere being a lumpy dumbass.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Really, people need to stop trying to transpose their pre-existing views onto the Gauthier decision. It could have been as simple as he did not like that the Flyers had just fired their GM, and he did not feel like going to an organization that was in transition and turmoil.

Not everything has a neat and tidy story that confirms your priors about Gauthier being a rotten child or Briere being a lumpy dumbass.

What transition?

 

[GKJ]

It's not a few bucks though. No one actually thinks Gauthier wouldn't have started on the Flyers in 24-25 for the majority, if not all, of the season. Either way, he would be wrapping up his 3 year ELC the same season his 2 year ELC would start if he went to UFA. We're talking 2 RFA years. If he's the player he thinks he is -- and even realistically -- that is $10MM in possible earnings lost to play with your friends and hang out with girls.

My hunch is they thought it was a bad locker room dynamic that season and didn't want to involve Gauthier in it. That's just a feeling. Doesn't make it a smart choice, if that's a sticking point for Gauthier. But again, starting his ELC in his D+2 would put him in line with every single 19 year old NCAA top 10 pick. He would've been the exception. There has to be more. Maybe we'll never know.

It is consistent with the reporting, but the point was that Cutter was different than McGroarty. Cutter obviously felt that the Flyers f***ed him over and he decided he wasn't going to forgive them for what he felt was backstabbing and lying to them. I know Danny and Jonesy are walking around all incredulous acting like they didn't know, but they do know, because we know. It wasn't about the money. It's not going to cost $10m, bridge deals aren't that much unless you're a top guy, and if you're a good agent, you're telling the kid that you're gonna get him the money he lost anyways. It will be there if he's that good.

The point was that McGroarty and the Jets were/are in a different situation. First off, they did not know at last year's draft that he wasn't going to sign like the Flyers did with Cutter because they hadn't even drafted him yet. You're supposed to meet with kids to see where their heads are at. They didn't know until this year when they didn't want to sign him yet. Elliotte Friedman reported after the Cutter trade that everyone was checking in with their prospects to see exactly what they thought, and the Jets chose to rather be in the best position in the standings. Beyond that, they are getting a reputation of holding their prospects back. Logan Stanley once asked for a trade. Perfetti hasn't stayed in the lineup, Heinola can't get on the roster. McGroarty is seeing that not only are there roadblocks to being in the NHL, their record is that they're going to purposely keep him out of it as long as possible. Teams and front office execs can whine and cry if they want about how players don't want to 'have to earn it,' but more and more kids now are deciding that exercising their agency is more important. They're entering a league not even getting to choose where they want to play, but if they play ball, most of them gotta got to some other town to do it first.

 

[Boocowski]

Really, people need to stop trying to transpose their pre-existing views onto the Gauthier decision. It could have been as simple as he did not like that the Flyers had just fired their GM, and he did not feel like going to an organization that was in transition and turmoil.

Not everything has a neat and tidy story that confirms your priors about Gauthier being a rotten child or Briere being a lumpy dumbass.

I put it all on the agents. Some of them put lofty ideas in these kids heads and the current rules give these American kids far more leverage and power than the Canadian counterparts and so some of these guys are exercising that power.

This will come up more and more as American hockey keeps developing, unless the league changes the rules.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You’re (willfully?) ignoring the timing of things and the circumstances.

By not signing Cutter to his ELC immediately after his college season ended and agreeing to burn a year, they would cost him a year of being an RFA. That’s 1-2 million down the shitter.

By not guaranteeing Cutter a spot in the NHL in 23-24, they would potentially be costing Cutter the ability to accrue an NHL season. That delays his eligibility for arbitration (costs him another couple million dollars) and delays his ability to become a UFA (if he’s a star, that’s easily 5MM++ down the drain). Had he played in the NHL for 40+ games this year, he would’ve been UFA eligible after his age 26 season. Now he will only be UFA eligible following his age 27 season.

We’ll never get confirmation that was the source of the dispute until Cutter speaks (if he ever does), but it makes a whole hell of a lot more sense than the Flyers explanation of “he ghosted us. We don’t know why.”

Telling a top prospect “we’re not guaranteeing you anything, you’re gonna earn it” sounds like exactly the kind of thing an arrogant organization that’s all in on Torts and “culture” would do. We’ve already seen the games Torts has played with other young Flyers.

Believe it or not, I don't like arguing with people.

I promise you, both Briere and Jones have said in separate interviews that the issue with Cutter goes back to just a few months after the draft.

You can ignore that. You can think I'm lying. You can think they're lying. One thing I've learned in life is that people don't like to change their opinions.

But I believe Briere and Jones that this issue started in the fall after Cutter was drafted.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I put it all on the agents. Some of them put lofty ideas in these kids heads and the current rules give these American kids far more leverage and power than the Canadian counterparts and so some of these guys are exercising that power.

This will come up more and more as American hockey keeps developing, unless the league changes the rules.

Any agent who can get responses like this is one you should want guiding your kid. They understand the job.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Really, people need to stop trying to transpose their pre-existing views onto the Gauthier decision. It could have been as simple as he did not like that the Flyers had just fired their GM, and he did not feel like going to an organization that was in transition and turmoil.

Not everything has a neat and tidy story that confirms your priors about Gauthier being a rotten child or Briere being a lumpy dumbass.

That is on the Flyers for being a shit show. All come back to they blew it imo.

Anyway you slice it it is not a good look for a gold standard organization to be stood up at the alter. No matter the reasoning.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Taking out guys who development arch’s legitimately took them to the point of exhausting or almost exhausting their eligibility anyway it’s two players in Gauthier & McGroarty.

We don’t know the full stories for sure but it sounds like it’s possible both teams just didn’t want to play these kids right away & burn their deals when they were ready to sign.

Even with Gauthier he ultimately got traded to Anaheim which obviously given the fact he signed with them they were more palatable to him than the Flyers. But it’s not like he controlled where he ultimately ended up. So that’s one risk players have to weigh in his potential position. He was never staying in college all four years. So he didn’t have absolute leverage to force his way somewhere like say an Adam Fox who only had to wait one more season until he could turn UFA. Another thing is Gauthier got absolutely ripped to shreds during that whole ordeal & it’s not over yet. That’s another risk that has to be weighed by players going this route.

 

[Curufinwe]

My hunch is they thought it was a bad locker room dynamic that season and didn't want to involve Gauthier in it. That's just a feeling. Doesn't make it a smart choice, if that's a sticking point for Gauthier. But again, starting his ELC in his D+2 would put him in line with every single 19 year old NCAA top 10 pick. He would've been the exception. There has to be more. Maybe we'll never know.

Looking back there are very few times where a high end college prospect finished his D+1 season with enough time left to play in 10 NHL games. Especially when the regular season used to finish earlier. But in Gauthier's case his last college game was March 11th and the Flyers didn't play game 82 until April 13th. That was a long time to sit and stew with nothing to do.

Cutter Gauthier Career Statistics

Career NCAA stats for Cutter Gauthier.

collegehockeyinc.com

Philadelphia Flyers Schedule | Philadelphia Flyers

The official calendar for the Philadelphia Flyers including ticket information, stats, rosters, and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Believe it or not, I don't like arguing with people.

I promise you, both Briere and Jones have said in separate interviews that the issue with Cutter goes back to just a few months after the draft.

You can ignore that. You can think I'm lying. You can think they're lying. One thing I've learned in life is that people don't like to change their opinions.

But I believe Briere and Jones that this issue started in the fall after Cutter was drafted.

Someone did your dirty work for you and posted it above. In his first interview Briere said “He looked at us at the draft and told us he was built to be a Flyer, wanted to be a Flyer, and maybe a few months later told us that he didn't want to be a Flyer, he didn't want to play for the Flyers.”

If you would like to believe that “maybe a few months later” is a specific timeline and is specific evidence that Cutter told them he was not going to play for them earlier than anyone has otherwise reported, then again, that’s your prerogative. But Briere then contradicted that timeline in his interview with Jeff Marek where he said very specifically that the desire not to play for the Flyers was only communicated in May of 2023: “It was a Zoom call. His agent requested a Zoom call,” Brière said. “We thought that he was going to tell us that he wanted to turn pro, that he was changing his mind because he had told us that he wanted to go back to college for another year to develop. But he had a really good World Championship, and even ourselves, we thought, ‘OK, he might be more ready than anybody thought.’ And so we were ready to move in that direction. You know, had a contract ready, and when the Zoom started, we were told he was changing his mind, but not to turn pro, rather that he just didn’t want to play for the Flyers and requested to be traded.”

I think Briere handled the situation rather poorly as is, but if he’s going on Marek’s show and lying about when Cutter requested a trade for the first time, I’d say that makes him look even worse.

Either he misspoke nervously in his first interview delivering bad news about the trade (which is understandable) and seems to jive with the nonspecific language he used “maybe a few months later” or he had a day to sleep on it, and decided to conduct an elaborate, detailed lie about the timeline which he then delivered to Marek.

Either way, the two statements do not jive. At all.

 

[Magua]

Looking back there are very few times where a high end college prospect finished his D+1 season with enough time left to play in 10 NHL games. Especially when the regular season used to finish earlier. But in Gauthier's case his last college game was March 11th and the Flyers didn't play game 82 until April 13th. That was a long time to sit and stew with nothing to do.

Cutter Gauthier Career Statistics

Career NCAA stats for Cutter Gauthier.

collegehockeyinc.com

Philadelphia Flyers Schedule | Philadelphia Flyers

The official calendar for the Philadelphia Flyers including ticket information, stats, rosters, and more.

www.nhl.com

I'm aware. It's assured that they didn't handle communications with Gauthier and his agent by telepathy. So, if the Flyers presented their case that they didn't want him involved in the dysfunction, and Gauthier said he didn't care and emphasized he wanted to sign, and then the Flyers still said no? Then, they're morons who dared their top prospect to leave. Maybe! But it's all conjecture. I do think it must be a multitude of things.

What I do know is the Flyers bungled the trade about as bad as possible, while patting themselves on the back about their savviness.

 

[TheKingPin]

Cutter could have seen the light and signed. If not then he keep developing, probably really well. Then you trade him for a similar proven stud player. NHL teams go nuts over high skill physical wings. I was ok with Drysdale until right after I actually looking into him.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Cutter Gauthier = Bo Callahan

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Another thing is too is hockey players on average have to be the most complacent athletes in all of professional sports. The vast majority will take whatever is served up to them by the powers above more times than not.

It’s still a very small percentage of players that actually use aggressive tactics to better themselves & not just go with flow.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Believe it or not, I don't like arguing with people.

I promise you, both Briere and Jones have said in separate interviews that the issue with Cutter goes back to just a few months after the draft.

You can ignore that. You can think I'm lying. You can think they're lying. One thing I've learned in life is that people don't like to change their opinions.

But I believe Briere and Jones that this issue started in the fall after Cutter was drafted.

Jones and Briere spent months building an elaborate lie about the team rebuilding only for Jones to accidentally brag it was all a pile of falsehood served to fans to get them to shut up while things continue unchanged.

That's who you deem credible?

 

[FlyerNutter]

Gauthier is a prime example of why a true rebuild requires more than one high pick.

Hell without other stars to compliment each other, there is no way even guys like MacKinnon, McDavid, Crosby, Matthews, or Hedman can propel their teams to cups.

The fallout of Gauthier not refusing to sign shouldn't be an organizational talent collapse, but when you so stupidly fight to prevent yourself from picking top 3 - we are where we are. Matvei on an island with a bunch of secondary meh.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Jones and Briere spent months building an elaborate lie about the team rebuilding only for Jones to accidentally brag it was all a pile of falsehood served to fans to get them to shut up while things continue unchanged.

That's who you deem credible?

C’mon… now you’re taking it too far. Jonesy was talking about his conversations with the players in the offseason, patting himself and the FO on the back for how competitive the team was and what a surprising season they were having. That wasn’t an admission that the rebuild is a lie. It was him puffing out his chest and taking credit for keeping the players morale high and getting them to fight like hell for the playoffs, despite being in a “rebuild”.

I don’t think the team has made enough hockey trades yet and I’m starting to sour on Briere a bit, but they are rebuilding (just not the way most of us would like). If the whole rebuild was BS, Walker would be here. Probably for like $10MM more total than he actually signed for with Carolina

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

I've maintained from the start that it is entirely possible that they are in fact rebuilding in their minds.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

C’mon… now you’re taking it too far. Jonesy was talking about his conversations with the players in the offseason, patting himself and the FO on the back for how competitive the team was and what a surprising season they were having. That wasn’t an admission that the rebuild is a lie. It was him puffing out his chest and taking credit for keeping the players morale high and getting them to fight like hell for the playoffs, despite being in a “rebuild”.

I don’t think the team has made enough hockey trades yet and I’m starting to sour on Briere a bit, but they are rebuilding (just not the way most of us would like). If the whole rebuild was BS, Walker would be here. Probably for like $10MM more total than he actually signed for with Carolina

Can't overlook the fact that Walker is represented by KO though.

 

[mediocre1975]

Such a great rebuild. Extending 4th line plugs until they are 35, running back the same roster as the previous year, holding onto Laughton and more than likely extending TK to yet another albatross contract. Same as it ever was. A team that hasn’t won anything in 50 years, thinking they are smarter than everyone else

 

[Beef Invictus]

C’mon… now you’re taking it too far. Jonesy was talking about his conversations with the players in the offseason, patting himself and the FO on the back for how competitive the team was and what a surprising season they were having. That wasn’t an admission that the rebuild is a lie. It was him puffing out his chest and taking credit for keeping the players morale high and getting them to fight like hell for the playoffs, despite being in a “rebuild”.

I don’t think the team has made enough hockey trades yet and I’m starting to sour on Briere a bit, but they are rebuilding (just not the way most of us would like). If the whole rebuild was BS, Walker would be here. Probably for like $10MM more total than he actually signed for with Carolina

When you consider that they also didn't rebuild at all, I think we can figure out who he was being honest with. Their actions say it all, and it was never a rebuild. Claimed in public it was, built a whole PR campaign on it, then assured the team "oh no, that's BS, we are going for it now." And have behaved in line with that.

 

[freakydallas13]

C’mon… now you’re taking it too far. Jonesy was talking about his conversations with the players in the offseason, patting himself and the FO on the back for how competitive the team was and what a surprising season they were having. That wasn’t an admission that the rebuild is a lie. It was him puffing out his chest and taking credit for keeping the players morale high and getting them to fight like hell for the playoffs, despite being in a “rebuild”.

I don’t think the team has made enough hockey trades yet and I’m starting to sour on Briere a bit, but they are rebuilding (just not the way most of us would like). If the whole rebuild was BS, Walker would be here. Probably for like $10MM more total than he actually signed for with Carolina

They only traded Walker after trying all season to resign him.

 

[Rebels57]

Someone did your dirty work for you and posted it above. In his first interview Briere said “He looked at us at the draft and told us he was built to be a Flyer, wanted to be a Flyer, and maybe a few months later told us that he didn't want to be a Flyer, he didn't want to play for the Flyers.”

If you would like to believe that “maybe a few months later” is a specific timeline and is specific evidence that Cutter told them he was not going to play for them earlier than anyone has otherwise reported, then again, that’s your prerogative. But Briere then contradicted that timeline in his interview with Jeff Marek where he said very specifically that the desire not to play for the Flyers was only communicated in May of 2023: “It was a Zoom call. His agent requested a Zoom call,” Brière said. “We thought that he was going to tell us that he wanted to turn pro, that he was changing his mind because he had told us that he wanted to go back to college for another year to develop. But he had a really good World Championship, and even ourselves, we thought, ‘OK, he might be more ready than anybody thought.’ And so we were ready to move in that direction. You know, had a contract ready, and when the Zoom started, we were told he was changing his mind, but not to turn pro, rather that he just didn’t want to play for the Flyers and requested to be traded.”

I think Briere handled the situation rather poorly as is, but if he’s going on Marek’s show and lying about when Cutter requested a trade for the first time, I’d say that makes him look even worse.

Either he misspoke nervously in his first interview delivering bad news about the trade (which is understandable) and seems to jive with the nonspecific language he used “maybe a few months later” or he had a day to sleep on it, and decided to conduct an elaborate, detailed lie about the timeline which he then delivered to Marek.

Either way, the two statements do not jive. At all.

I think you're probably just looking too far into the "few months later" comment. He wouldnt lie about when they were actually told (via Zoom meeting after the 2023 WC), because that could easily be refuted by Gauthier's camp.

 

[Random Forest]

They only traded Walker after trying all season to resign him.

Come on. They had negotiations to see what the cost would be and committed to trading him as soon as it was clear he was in for a UFA sized contract.

You don’t have to be a Briere cheerleader to at least be honest about the moves they’ve made, even if you find fault in them.

 

[freakydallas13]

Come on. They had negotiations to see what the cost would be and committed to trading him as soon as it was clear he was in for a UFA sized contract.

You don’t have to be a Briere cheerleader to at least be honest about the moves they’ve made, even if you find fault in them.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/philadelphia-flyers/latest-news/flyers-still-exploring-negotiations-with-seeler-walker