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Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

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renberg said:
Tortorella and Sullivan are old friends. Sullivan was an AC with Tortorella in Vancouver. They also coached together in tournament situations like this year's Four nations Cup.
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I called this a year ago.

If the Penguins implode and decide to rebuild, look for Sullivan to be fired, become a "senior advisor" with the Flyers and replace Torts down the road.

Perfect situation for Sullivan, young up coming team that's been coached to a similar style to what he employs.
 
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I wondered how long he would last when Dubas got the job in Pitt. My first thought was that he would can Sullivan and bring in Keefe. However now he's in NJ so Dubas will have to find someone else.
So far Sullivan has kept himself on the right sider of the vets who really run the club. Then there is the contract that Sullivan has with the Penguins. He was a given an extension by Hextall through '26'27 at $5.5M per.
 
deadhead said:
Force what hand?
Torts has another year after this season.
Jones and Briere are very happy with him.
There is no "players' revolt," they've grown accustomed to him and the malcontents are history.

Torts will coach as long as he wants, but I think at some point he'll call it quits and retire to the farm.
At that point he might be an advisor, but I don't think he's interested in the FO at this point in his life.
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Torts has said several times he will not go into his last season as a lame duck coach like he did in Columbus.

So, he gets an ext, he retires, or he coaches his last year despite him saying he won't.

so, if they dont want to give him an ext then what?
 
deadhead said:
Force what hand?
Torts has another year after this season.
Jones and Briere are very happy with him.
There is no "players' revolt," they've grown accustomed to him and the malcontents are history.

Torts will coach as long as he wants, but I think at some point he'll call it quits and retire to the farm.
At that point he might be an advisor, but I don't think he's interested in the FO at this point in his life.
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The malcontents are almost all still on the team.Fear not, the revolt is coming. It usually does with him.
 
blackjackmulligan said:
Crosby Malkin and Letang (they were the only 3 I mentioned) would be easily moveable and pretty much every contender would be able to make it work. To think otherwise is silly to me.

they would all bring back 1st and then some.
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Trading Crosby just so they can bungle another late 1st rounder isn't worth losing half the fan base overnight.
 
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GKJ said:
View attachment 929213
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Beginning to wonder if the idea is "let's have it adjudicated, but we'll drag our feet until the season ends. The Flyers get cap relief through the end of the year, then either RyJo's deal is gone because we win, or the league tolls the contract, and they've punted the problem to next season, when Johnson and Petersen are gone, the eAngelo buyout is gone, and we have a few more options for staying under the cap.
 
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ponder719 said:
Beginning to wonder if the idea is "let's have it adjudicated, but we'll drag our feet until the season ends. The Flyers get cap relief through the end of the year, then either RyJo's deal is gone because we win, or the league tolls the contract, and they've punted the problem to next season, when Johnson and Petersen are gone, the eAngelo buyout is gone, and we have a few more options for staying under the cap.
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How does any team that’s not the coyotes finish so low in the standings and be this cash strapped?
 
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Lord Defect said:
How does any team that’s not the coyotes finish so low in the standings and be this cash strapped?
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Easy. Peterson, salary dump, Johansen, salary dump. Got better draft picks out of them
Then the money from past moves before Briere:
Hayes, retained
TDA, Atkinson buyouts.
Risto, overpay.
 
Lord Defect said:
How does any team that’s not the coyotes finish so low in the standings and be this cash strapped?
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Overpaid:
Tippett (by about $2M)
Cates (about $1M)
Hathaway (about $800K)
Poehling (about $500K)
Ristolainen (about $3M)
Seeler (about $1M)
Fedotov (about $2M)

Cap Dumps:
Johansen: $4M
Petersen: $3.85M buried penalty, of $5M full charge

Pay to Not Play:
Hayes ($3.57M)
Atkinson ($2.35M)
eAngelo ($1.67M)

Just straight up shit contracts:
Deslauriers: $1.75M
Johnson: $1M

The Anchor Dragging us into LTIR Bay:
Ellis ($6.25M)

By my rough calculation, not having to deal with any of the crap deals, and signing those 7 players to deals more appropriately commensurate with their talent, accounts for about $30M in wasted space. That's without looking into possibilities like what happens if we moved off of TK and Laughton last year, which while I don't consider them wasted cap space, shouldn't be on the books now.

To paraphrase Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about real cap issues.
 
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ponder719 said:
Overpaid:
Tippett (by about $2M)
Cates (about $1M)
Hathaway (about $800K)
Poehling (about $500K)
Ristolainen (about $3M)
Seeler (about $1M)
Fedotov (about $2M)

Cap Dumps:
Johansen: $4M
Petersen: $3.85M buried penalty, of $5M full charge

Pay to Not Play:
Hayes ($3.57M)
Atkinson ($2.35M)
eAngelo ($1.67M)

Just straight up shit contracts:
Deslauriers: $1.75M
Johnson: $1M

The Anchor Dragging us into LTIR Bay:
Ellis ($6.25M)

By my rough calculation, not having to deal with any of the crap deals, and signing those 7 players to deals more appropriately commensurate with their talent, accounts for about $30M in wasted space. That's without looking into possibilities like what happens if we moved off of TK and Laughton last year, which while I don't consider them wasted cap space, shouldn't be on the books now.

To paraphrase Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about real cap issues.
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While some of those may be debatable, there are zero surplus value contracts on the roster (elc outside). Maybe Ersson would make one.

Even if you have the key pieces in place, cup calibre 1C and 1D, which they don't, you need surplus value contracts on the roster to build a contender.

They likely tried to go long term at a higher cap hit with Cates as well which would have been worse.
 
ponder719 said:
Overpaid:
Tippett (by about $2M)
Cates (about $1M)
Hathaway (about $800K)
Poehling (about $500K)
Ristolainen (about $3M)
Seeler (about $1M)
Fedotov (about $2M)

Cap Dumps:
Johansen: $4M
Petersen: $3.85M buried penalty, of $5M full charge

Pay to Not Play:
Hayes ($3.57M)
Atkinson ($2.35M)
eAngelo ($1.67M)

Just straight up shit contracts:
Deslauriers: $1.75M
Johnson: $1M

The Anchor Dragging us into LTIR Bay:
Ellis ($6.25M)

By my rough calculation, not having to deal with any of the crap deals, and signing those 7 players to deals more appropriately commensurate with their talent, accounts for about $30M in wasted space. That's without looking into possibilities like what happens if we moved off of TK and Laughton last year, which while I don't consider them wasted cap space, shouldn't be on the books now.

To paraphrase Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about real cap issues.
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Hard to believe that Laughton is living up to even 3mil a year these days
 
Beef Invictus said:
Hard to believe that Laughton is living up to even 3mil a year these days
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He's not, but at the time the deal was signed, the amount was defensible, and it was at least plausible he'd live up to it until the end of the contract, so I left it off. There are more than enough entirely indefensible contracts to point out to take umbrage with one that actually wasn't poor (the part of the process that was poor was not trading him instead of offering the contract.)
 
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I think people are about 3 years behind the times when judging contracts.
The cap is now rising $4M a year or so and will continue to do so.
Voracek's contract started in 2016-17, and was about 10% of the cap at it's mid-point, Tippett's contract will be 6% at it's mid-point.
Voracek
25: 11-37 48 ES 11-22 33 PP
26: 10-22 32 ES 1-22 23 PP
27: 15-23 38 ES 5-18 23 PP
28: 15-35 50 ES 5-30 35 PP
29: 16-32 48 ES 4-14 18 PP
30: 9-36 45 ES 4-15 19 PP [pro-rated]
31: 13-38 51 ES 0-12 12 PP [pro-rated]
32: 4-33 37 ES 2-23 25 PP
last two seasons on LTIR

Tippett:
23: 19-18 37 ES 8-4 12 PP
24: 23-22 45 ES 5-3 8 PP
25:

Neither forward was a defensive maven.
Notice how Voracek's PP stats depended on the quality of the PP, which is why I look at PP separate from ES.
 
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deadhead said:
I think people are about 3 years behind the times when judging contracts.
The cap is now rising $4M a year or so and will continue to do so.
Voracek's contract started in 2016-17, and was about 10% of the cap at it's mid-point, Tippett's contract will be 6% at it's mid-point.
Voracek
25: 11-37 48 ES 11-22 33 PP
26: 10-22 32 ES 1-22 23 PP
27: 15-23 38 ES 5-18 23 PP
28: 15-35 50 ES 5-30 35 PP
29: 16-32 48 ES 4-14 18 PP
30: 9-36 45 ES 4-15 19 PP [pro-rated]
31: 13-38 51 ES 0-12 12 PP [pro-rated]
32: 4-33 37 ES 2-23 25 PP
last two seasons on LTIR

Tippett:
23: 19-18 37 ES 8-4 12 PP
24: 23-22 45 ES 5-3 8 PP
25:

Neither forward was a defensive maven.
Notice how Voracek's PP stats depended on the quality of the PP, which is why I look at PP separate from ES.
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Voracek drove the PP to a high degree, so it's a weird thing to punish him for.

Oh, and Tippett isn't remotely as good as Voracek. So a weird comparison.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
Voracek drove the PP to a high degree, so it's a weird thing to punish him for.

Oh, and Tippett isn't remotely as good as Voracek. So a weird comparison.
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He's not that far behind, faster, much better goal scorer.
Tippett got his deal two years younger, and much smaller (6% v 10%).
So if he's overpaid, Voracek was grossly overpaid.
For one thing, Voracek played with better centers, Giroux, Couts.

If Voracek drove the PP, how come he had 3 mediocre PP1 seasons? Did he fall off the cliff?
 
deadhead said:
He's not that far behind, faster, much better goal scorer.
Tippett got his deal two years younger, and much smaller (6% v 10%).
So if he's overpaid, Voracek was grossly overpaid.
For one thing, Voracek played with better centers, Giroux, Couts.

If Voracek drove the PP, how come he had 3 mediocre PP1 seasons? Did he fall off the cliff?
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He's extremely far behind. Voracek was one of the best at his position. Top 5 routinely. Tippett is a 3rd liner on a team that isn't near worst in league like this one is. This is insanity.


I don't think you've had a single correct assessment of Ghost or Voracek in a decade. It's really incredible.
 
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