Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[pit]

Or the first rule of signing FAs, never buy high (off a peak season).

So did we buy high off a peak season with Tippett? I don't think 53 points should be considered a peak season for a 6.2 million dollar player but it's legitimately the best of Tippett's career so far so that seems like a peak to me.

Do you expect Tippett to score more in the years to come?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What the actual hell are we doing? How many times have you had to ask yourself this?

Fair. Sometimes these threads are like a game coached by Matt Patricia.

 

[ajgoal]

Fair. Sometimes these threads are like a game coached by Matt Patricia.

Patricia wasn't that bad.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Patricia wasn't that bad.

You have a pencil behind your ear right now, don’t you?

 

[ajgoal]

You have a pencil behind your ear right now, don’t you?

I just mean compared to some of these discussions.

 

[flyersnorth]

Would absolutely inquire. I bet the cost is still somewhat high. These are the type they should be scouring the market for.

Yes, that would make sense.

That combined with moving out Risto (from that other rumour) almost makes too much sense.

But what are the odds of one, let alone both, of those things happening?

 

[deadhead]

So did we buy high off a peak season with Tippett? I don't think 53 points should be considered a peak season for a 6.2 million dollar player but it's legitimately the best of Tippett's career so far so that seems like a peak to me.

Do you expect Tippett to score more in the years to come?

Tippett has put together two solid seasons at 23-24 years old.
Averaging 21-20 41 at ES. (18-20 38 using EH, no EN goals)
Over that 2 year stretch, he's 81st in total points, 49th in goals (EH).
Only Flyer fans would diss that performance.
And his contract is fine for that production.

I think he'll score more if he stays on PP1 (4 apples in 16 games) with Michkov, which is why I'm wary of PP scoring, you can put up nice numbers if you're out there with two top PP guys. Conversely, Voracek struggled to get apples without Schenn or Simmonds.

At ES I think Tippett has a little upside left, he can refine his shot a bit, develop a little more awareness, but we're probably talking 25 goals, 50 ES points as his ceiling.
Though the way the Tippett - Couts - TK line is playing right now, who knows?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I just mean compared to some of these discussions.

I was going to yell at you and then someone called Voracek a product of Brayden Schenn. You win this round, Gadget.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No he wasn't after he signed that contract. Orange nostalgia.
Had two very good but not elite seasons, otherwise a marginal 1st line scorer.
Basically a median 1st line forward, but not elite. Similar to TK at the same age.

ES scoring ranking:
2015-16: (107)
2016-17: (73)
2017-18: (32) G was (2), Couts (6)
2018-19: (73)
2019-20: (46)
2020-21: (31)
2021-22: (112)

TK (new deal will be about 8-8.5% of the cap at mid-point)
2021-22: (77)
2022-23: (90)
2023-24: (36)

Tippett
2022-23: (114)
2023-24: (60)

It's a lot of words to convince nobody that a dude who was a 3rd liner before his contract year and is now back down to earth is equivalent or better than a superior player.

By the way he had an 85 point season, his best, after the contract. It takes a singular feat of imagination to dream of Tippett getting there.

Justifying his contract by going "well what about this much better player who earned more money!?" will never be convincing.

You are incapable of discussing Jake or Ghost. You should accept that you're too biased to ever assess them correctly.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So did we buy high off a peak season with Tippett? I don't think 53 points should be considered a peak season for a 6.2 million dollar player but it's legitimately the best of Tippett's career so far so that seems like a peak to me.

Do you expect Tippett to score more in the years to come?

Yes, I would say we rushed to overpay a guy who had the traditional and common trade bounce paired with contract year.

They also gambled on term for a guy whose whole game is dependent on physical traits which will likely decline.

It is likely the whole reason for this is because the whole management group was involved in getting him and they're gonna follow sunk cost fallacy to the bottom to delay the reality that they mangled the Giroux trade being realized

 

[ajgoal]

I was going to yell at you and then someone called Voracek a product of Brayden Schenn. You win this round, Gadget.

Patricia really is your Gostisbehere, isn't he?

 

[deadhead]

Two years is a pretty good sample.

And 6% of cap is third tier money, the elite guys are in the 14-16% range these days in their UFA contract.
The first tier guys (top 20 scorer types) are in the 10-12% range.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Would absolutely inquire. I bet the cost is still somewhat high. These are the type they should be scouring the market for.

I bet it isn't that high. I think he can be had without giving up a first. This isn't a situation where he is a high end guy playing well and is just unhappy. He hasn't done well in the NHL AND is unhappy so I don't see someone throwing a first out there for him. I bet a second and an NHL ready middling prospect or young NHLer. What's their goalie situation? Maybe they would be interested in one of those dudes.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Patricia really is your Gostisbehere, isn't he?

I'm a defensive guy. I enjoy going back and watching the coaches' tape to see what they were trying to do, how it worked, how it didn't, etc. That man was so utterly inept that he ruined my weekly ritual for me. I had to stop trying to watch it.

Former All-Pro Kevin Byard couldn't play the simplest forms of Zone coverage because their gaps were ATROCIOUS and no one communicated. Byard is completely fine again this year. Absolute doofus.

 

[ajgoal]

I'm a defensive guy. I enjoy going back and watching the coaches' tape to see what they were trying to do, how it worked, how it didn't, etc. That man was so utterly inept that he ruined my weekly ritual for me. I had to stop trying to watch it.

Former All-Pro Kevin Byard couldn't play the simplest forms of Zone coverage because their gaps were ATROCIOUS and no one communicated. Byard is completely fine again this year. Absolute doofus.

A simple "yes" would have sufficed.

Of course I know that your complaints are well founded and not.. whatever some others are.

 

[freakydallas13]

Two years is a pretty good sample.

And 6% of cap is third tier money, the elite guys are in the 14-16% range these days in their UFA contract.
The first tier guys (top 20 scorer types) are in the 10-12% range.

A rebuilding team resigning a 24 year old 3rd tier player for 8 years.

Joy.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

The wheels on the bus go round and round...

Should Flyers Trade for Disgruntled Former Top Draft Pick?

These days, a Philadelphia Flyers trade is always on the table. Management has made it clear that they are open to any and all moves that will help the team improve now or in the future. You know, a “hockey trade”. One of those hockey trades could come in the form of top Columbus Blue […]

phillyhockeynow.com

After two seasons, though, the 20-year-old former No. 6 overall pick is taking a bit longer than expected to establish himself as an NHL regular.

Jiricek has played a total of 52 games in parts of three NHL seasons, compiling one goal, 10 assists, and 11 points in that timeframe. He’s also playing under a new head coach (again) and a new general manager.

Now that the Blue Jackets claimed Dante Fabbro, another right-hand shot, on waivers, Jiricek’s future in Columbus is uncertain, to say the least. That’s how NHL insider Elliotte Friedman sees it, anyway.

“The one thing you’re watching for now in Columbus is Jiricek. The relationship between Jiricek and the Blue Jackets has been up-and-down,” Friedman said on his “32 Thoughts” podcast. “Remember, last year he was disappointed and they had to work with him to sort it out. I think he only played nine minutes the other night in their game against the Kings, and it’ll be interesting.

NHL Rumours: Philadelphia Flyers Defender Possible Trade Bait

It's time for some more NHL rumours. We talk about the Philadelphia Flyers and how one blueliner could get some looks from other teams.

lastwordonsports.com

Rumour: Anthony Di Marco of The Daily Faceoff said the Flyers could look into dealing Rasmus Ristolainen in the future. The Finn has morphed into a solid defender this season and Flyers General Manager Daniel Briere could move him.

Yeah why not, but what is the ask?

Also you need to make moves but most of the defense is practically unmovable. (Sanheim, York, Seeler, Andrae, Drysdale).

Never gonna happen.

 

[ponder719]

The wheels on the bus go round and round...

Should Flyers Trade for Disgruntled Former Top Draft Pick?

These days, a Philadelphia Flyers trade is always on the table. Management has made it clear that they are open to any and all moves that will help the team improve now or in the future. You know, a “hockey trade”. One of those hockey trades could come in the form of top Columbus Blue […]

phillyhockeynow.com

Given that, for all I think it's stupid as f*** to do so, I fully expect us to trade Frost, this is the kind of scenario where I'd be OK with it. Don't know the exact shape of a deal here if one is available, but I wouldn't mind a big shakeup with Frost and Drysdale (I know they won't, but let me dream, damn it) as part of the Flyers offer, and Jiricek as part of the return from CBJ.

 

[pit]

At ES I think Tippett has a little upside left, he can refine his shot a bit, develop a little more awareness, but we're probably talking 25 goals, 50 ES points as his ceiling.
Though the way the Tippett - Couts - TK line is playing right now, who knows?

16 games into the season and he has 5 ES points. He'll need .68 ES PPG to hit 50 ES this year. He better get back to last year's playing level and excel beyond it to sniff that.

Maybe it's both/either an aberration or small sample size, but my fear is there's no upside left combined with eventual physical decline for a player who depends on physical traits for success. Even if he is hitting your expectations in the the few years, I don't see it happening on the tail end.

 

[deadhead]

A rebuilding team resigning a 24 year old 3rd tier player for 8 years.

Joy.

To build a top team, you need 3rd lines and 2 D-pairs (you can fill in around the edges if this group can eat the lion's share of minutes).
As long as you're not overpaying, locking up 24 year old players makes sense.

 

[deadhead]

16 games into the season and he has 5 ES points. He'll need .68 ES PPG to hit 50 ES this year. He better get back to last year's playing level and excel beyond it to sniff that.

Maybe it's both/either an aberration or small sample size, but my fear is there's no upside left combined with eventual physical decline for a player who depends on physical traits for success. Even if he is hitting your expectations in the the few years, I don't see it happening on the tail end.

He's also hit a half dozen posts. Scoring is stochastic.
What was more worrisome was the bad metrics, especially after last season.

Since Tippett has been paired with TK and Couts, he looks a lot better.
And Couts is looking like his old self, he had great metrics last year, but couldn't score, with these two snipers, he's going to the net and taking out the garbage.

Wings depend on centers, look at Rust with Crosby or Hyman with McDavid.
I think a lot of Flyer wings have more upside if they can get better centers.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

That would shock me as all about perception. I have no issue giving up the Oilers or Avs pick if that is what it took.

Yeah I am sure their ask will be higher but I am just not sure any team is going to part with something of value for a guy who is both struggling and unhappy with his situation. I'd be fine trading one of those firsts as well.

 

[Cody Webster]

Remember when 300 games wasn't a big enough sample, but now 2 seasons is?

I've never met someone that defends something as much as Deady defends the Flyers

 

[renberg]

Given that, for all I think it's stupid as f*** to do so, I fully expect us to trade Frost, this is the kind of scenario where I'd be OK with it. Don't know the exact shape of a deal here if one is available, but I wouldn't mind a big shakeup with Frost and Drysdale (I know they won't, but let me dream, damn it) as part of the Flyers offer, and Jiricek as part of the return from CBJ.

Perhaps Drysdale for Jiricek straight up does it. Matching first round selections a year apart. Drysdale has had injury issues but so has Jiricek (knee surgery prior to the draft). That seems to be a fair deal. No need to put Frost into the deal.
If the deal needs a sweetener, we could throw in Tortorella since he's pretty popular back in Columbus.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Perhaps Drysdale for Jiricek straight up does it. Matching first round selections a year apart. Drysdale has had injury issues but so has Jiricek (knee surgery prior to the draft). That seems to be a fair deal.

Extra years of failure should mean you need to add. But this is the NHL and Columbus, so you could be completely right.