Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[ponder719]

Perhaps Drysdale for Jiricek straight up does it. Matching first round selections a year apart. Drysdale has had injury issues but so has Jiricek (knee surgery prior to the draft). That seems to be a fair deal. No need to put Frost into the deal.
If the deal needs a sweetener, we could throw in Tortorella since he's pretty popular back in Columbus.

If they'd do that straight up, it'd be nice, I just don't think Drysdale carries as much value as Jiricek, between the relative difference in size, amount of time spent injured, there's actually closer to two years' development time separating them (2020 draft year vs. 2022), a couple factors like that, and I don't want to be adding in significant picks if I can make up the difference with player equity.

 

[freakydallas13]

To build a top team, you need 3rd lines and 2 D-pairs (you can fill in around the edges if this group can eat the lion's share of minutes).
As long as you're not overpaying, locking up 24 year old players makes sense.

"You need 3rd lines and 2 D-pairs" doesn't mean you have to resign 3rd tier 24 year old players for 8 years. You are exacting zero extra value from that contract.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Trade Frost Briere you coward !!

 

[flyersnorth]

What other rumor for Risto? I just can't see him being moved unless 50% retention or a bad contract also coming back. Playing well for a few weeks doesn't erase the prior decade. He can help solidify a teams a bottom pair, just his contract is way too high.

From my same post earlier..

NHL Rumours: Philadelphia Flyers Defender Possible Trade Bait

It's time for some more NHL rumours. We talk about the Philadelphia Flyers and how one blueliner could get some looks from other teams.

lastwordonsports.com

Rumour: Anthony Di Marco of The Daily Faceoff said the Flyers could look into dealing Rasmus Ristolainen in the future. The Finn has morphed into a solid defender this season and Flyers General Manager Daniel Briere could move him.

 

[flyersnorth]

Yeah why not, but what is the ask?

Also you need to make moves but most of the defense is practically unmovable. (Sanheim, York, Seeler, Andrae, Drysdale).

Never gonna happen.

I think you just answered your own question by the one defenseman you left out The Finnish Viking.

Acquiring potential high-level talent is never a bad thing, and going after Jiricek would make sense.

In the case of Drysdale, I guess I can see what they were going for based on his draft pedigree.... but if they scouted him for that long, and that is what it looks like? That's more than a bit concerning.

 

[deadhead]

By your D+3 season, your draft pedigree is useless.

However, what got you drafted high (size, speed, skill) may make you attractive, tempered by how you've actually utilized those skills since you were drafted.

You're more likely to retain value if there are extenuating circumstances, for example, Drysdale was obviously rushed and was oft injured, which both suggests there might be unrealized potential but also that he's injury prone.

Jiricek should retain more value, he is still only 21. But some CBJ fans think he's going to bring back a big package, uh, no. Now on his third stint in the AHL, and he's not a dominant AHL player.
Last season 29g 5-6 11 (ES) -16.
+/- for other Cleveland D-men: +8, +4, +1, +4, +7, -7
Two years ago: 55g 2-12 14 (ES) -11
+/- for other Cleveland D-men: -1, -15, -4, -14, -4

New GM and HC are not enamored with him, when a bad team can't find you PT . . .
They claimed Fabbro, 26 year old RHD, and are playing 38 year old Jack Johnson ahead of him.

 

[BernieParent]

From my same post earlier..

NHL Rumours: Philadelphia Flyers Defender Possible Trade Bait

It's time for some more NHL rumours. We talk about the Philadelphia Flyers and how one blueliner could get some looks from other teams.

lastwordonsports.com

Rumour: Anthony Di Marco of The Daily Faceoff said the Flyers could look into dealing Rasmus Ristolainen in the future. The Finn has morphed into a solid defender this season and Flyers General Manager Daniel Briere could move him.

"Could" here obviously means "will have other GMs who are interested in paying for Ristolainen as a non-cap-dump". It does not mean "Briere would actually be interested or motivated to make such a deal".

 

[Beef Invictus]

Opinion not a fact. where you or others saying he was rushed when he put up 32 points his first full year?

There were quite a few people saying he didn't look ready at all and it wouldn't be sustained.

I personally don't know. Maybe he was rushed. Or maybe he could have built on it. He faced two insurmountable obstacles: drowning in an Eakins system which is like AV in the way it leaves Dmen exposed and under siege, but worse in every way. And his health.

He has spent very little time learning to thrive, and basically all of it learning to try to survive. That doesn't build great players very often. Whether he was rushed or not, the situation in general was terrible enough that it's hard to imagine many better outcomes.

 

[flyersnorth]

"Could" here obviously means "will have other GMs who are interested in paying for Ristolainen as a non-cap-dump". It does not mean "Briere would actually be interested or motivated to make such a deal".

That abomination of events that led to landing AND extending Risto is up there among the biggest franchise bungles.

Some of the other doozies, off the top of my head -

Signing Bryz for 9 years, thus ensuring your young 22 year old netminder-of-the-future wants to get the hell out of doge.

Trading a 1st rounder (John Carlson) for Steve Eminger.

AMac extension.

Someone should write a book.

 

[deadhead]

"Could" here obviously means "will have other GMs who are interested in paying for Ristolainen as a non-cap-dump". It does not mean "Briere would actually be interested or motivated to make such a deal".

Briere is in no rush to dump Risto.
Given the alternatives at RHD are Johnson, Belpedio, Grans and Sampson.
He can move him at the TDL, or next summer.
No reason to take a lowball offer.

 

[trostol]

Glad we're not rebuilding so we don't need to see what some of these other options can or can't do

 

[deadhead]

So, you think that contract can be moved without retention or an equally bad contract coming back? If so, then you take any pick that is offered. That is what a rebuilding team would do.

What kind of return so you think he will get? What are your expectations?

If they are the alternatives, then they may not want to move him at all. That is possible right?

What's the rush? He'll have more value this summer simply b/c he only has two years left on his deal, and retention is also shorter (or take a contract back).

Belpedio and Johnson are known "non-quantities", Grans has yet to show enough to think of him as a NHL starter while Samson is 21 and on the 3rd pair in LHV - he's year's away "if ever."

 

[Beef Invictus]

"What's the rush? Value will be higher in the summer"

Is always followed by "What's the rush? Value will be higher in season"

Over and over again in a cycle until the contract ends or player value is vanished.

 

[deadhead]

It's hard to move contracts at the TDL. Which is why teams like rentals, if it doesn't work, move on.

In the summer, a 2 year deal is a great fit for a lot of teams, long enough it's more than a rental, short enough not to be an albatross. Buys time for a prospect to develop.

Risto will have value, teams love big RHDs.

 

[Tripod]

"What's the rush? Value will be higher in the summer"

Is always followed by "What's the rush? Value will be higher in season"

Over and over again in a cycle until the contract ends or player value is vanished.

Flyers way....not allowed to sell high on a guy. Have to wait until they tank his value publicly first

 

[FlyerNutter]

Who have they moved in the last 5 years that’s at least halfway worth a damn.

For all their talk of aggression, they are cowards in making deals. I get it to a point, FA signings or trades like the proposed Sanheim deal expose a fatal flaw in pro scouting.

Yet we’ve got what. Hayes? Provorov? Ghost? Giroux?

For a team that shudders at the thought of tanking for a few years, they are arguably worse when it comes to the trade market.

 

[deadhead]

Flyers way....not allowed to sell high on a guy. Have to wait until they tank his value publicly first

The whole point is Briere shouldn't make a trade if it's a lowball.
Not just Risto, but Frost and anyone else on the roster.
If there's no urgency, don't make a deal just to make a deal.

There is option value in holding onto a player b/c a lowball offer becomes the option cost (rejecting a 5th or 6th b/c the player might bounce back and be worth a 2nd or 3rd, even if the odds are long).

The one time you take a lowball is at the TDL with a pending UFA, something is better than nothing.

 

[freakydallas13]

Briere is in no rush to dump Risto.

The evidence shows Briere has zero patience as a GM, and that he sprints to finish deals at the earliest opportunity.

 

[freakydallas13]

It's hard to move contracts at the TDL. Which is why teams like rentals, if it doesn't work, move on.

In the summer, a 2 year deal is a great fit for a lot of teams, long enough it's more than a rental, short enough not to be an albatross. Buys time for a prospect to develop.

Risto will have value, teams love big RHDs.

When it came to trading Cutter, you stick your head in the sand and tell us how no other deals were out there because we didn't hear rumours of them.

But trading Risto? Easy. Options are plentiful and returns are guaranteed to be amazing, despite the fact we also have zero rumours about trading him for anything at all, never mind trading him for a good return.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The whole point is Briere shouldn't make a trade if it's a lowball.
Not just Risto, but Frost and anyone else on the roster.
If there's no urgency, don't make a deal just to make a deal.

There is option value in holding onto a player b/c a lowball offer becomes the option cost (rejecting a 5th or 6th b/c the player might bounce back and be worth a 2nd or 3rd, even if the odds are long).

The one time you take a lowball is at the TDL with a pending UFA, something is better than nothing.

Well this is ironic given numerous conversations over the last year or so.

 

[freakydallas13]

The whole point is Briere shouldn't make a trade if it's a lowball.
If there's no urgency, don't make a deal just to make a deal.

Lol. Lmao even.

Cutter trade
Hayes buyout
TDA buyout
Resigning Hathaway

All examples of Briere doing the opposite of what you are describing.

 

[renberg]

Maybe other teams saw Cutter as what he is right now for Anaheim and Drysdale was the best offer that hit the table. He certainly is no center ice man. Now he's finding out that defense in the show is a heck of a lot more sticky than the stuff he saw in college so the wide open shots aren't there any more. Then the goalies are not cream puffs and can make saves. If he's going to make it, he's going to have to show that he can grind a bit in the dirty spaces in the rink. We don't know if he has the personality to be that type of player.

 

[TCTC]

Maybe other teams saw Cutter as what he is right now for Anaheim and Drysdale was the best offer that hit the table. He certainly is no center ice man. Now he's finding out that defense in the show is a heck of a lot more sticky than the stuff he saw in college so the wide open shots aren't there any more. Then the goalies are not cream puffs and can make saves. If he's going to make it, he's going to have to show that he can grind a bit in the dirty spaces in the rink. We don't know if he has the personality to be that type of player.

A guy who says of himself that he has the "clutch gene" doesn't come across as the type of person who's willing to put in the necessary work.
He'll probably be traded again at some point when his coach and GM lose patience with him. He definitely seems like the played for 5 teams in 5 years kind of player.

 

[Magua]

Cutter Gauthier was assuredly of the most valuable ELCs on the market in recent years, coming off a top 5 selection and strong college seasons and a good WJC. He's a 6'2 pure shooter, with possible wing/center versatility, who is one of the faster players already in the league.

That's the sell.

NHL teams go gaga over that profile. Just ask the Flyers. Gauthier's list was 18-20 teams. The teams not on that list would've been interested too. What could you pick apart about his game? Doesn't matter. You only need 2 of those teams to think he's a 40 goal superstar. We don't have to re-write history and say, "Well, actually, he wasn't coveted." There's no reason to absolve the Flyers for royally f***ing up the trade. Rutger McGroarty got a better value return months later.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I would bet a very large amount of money that smart teams who did not rate Gauthier as highly as some others absolutely would have made real offers. I don’t know why we’re even having this discussion when he had 0 days of his ELC used. If you don’t understand how that changes the conversation, I would call it willful ignorance at this point.