Therrien - New Season Edition

[BenchBrawl]

would be great if you could back-up the bolded claims of yours.

I can't back up claims like ''mental is more important than system".I'm just convinced it's true, if you don't then so be it.

As for why Subban was difficult to manage as he was developping, it wasn't in the sense that he was a potential cancer.He was a very raw type of player, wild talent and energy that needed to be contained to some degree without ''castrating'' him.It should be obvious why this is touchy.

It's much harder to manage that than say a guy like Pacioretty.

BTW Beaulieu is a bit Subban-lite in that regard, and he seems to be developping very well.

 

[Rapala]

I can't back up claims like ''mental is more important than system".I'm just convinced it's true, if you don't then so be it.

As for why Subban was difficult to manage as he was developping, it wasn't in the sense that he was a potential cancer.He was a very raw type of player, wild talent and energy that needed to be contained to some degree without ''castrating'' him.It should be obvious why this is touchy.

It's much harder to manage that than say a guy like Pacioretty.

BTW Beaulieu is a bit Subban-lite in that regard, and he seems to be developping very well.

Hmmm,
With regards to the mental part of the game and the chemistry a team needs to develop to win a championship I can't say you are wrong. But to think that a poor game plan can't unravel all that is IMO.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I can't back up claims like ''mental is more important than system".I'm just convinced it's true, if you don't then so be it.

As for why Subban was difficult to manage as he was developping, it wasn't in the sense that he was a potential cancer.He was a very raw type of player, wild talent and energy that needed to be contained to some degree without ''castrating'' him.It should be obvious why this is touchy.

It's much harder to manage that than say a guy like Pacioretty.

BTW Beaulieu is a bit Subban-lite in that regard, and he seems to be developping very well.

it's not actually.


definitely not. as of this year he isnt joining the rush or skating with the puck much, havent seen him try that many risky plays yet.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Hmmm,
With regards to the mental part of the game and the chemistry a team needs to develop to win a championship I can't say you are wrong. But to think that a poor game plan can't unravel all that is IMO.

I agree you need a bit of everything.But you need the first two in priority.I also believe it's harder to provide the first two, and talent is not the coach job.So the most important aspect of a head coach job is to build an atmosphere which is likely to build team chemistry, then stay a strong leader once achieved which I think Therrien did very well.

 

[BenchBrawl]

it's not actually.

Well too bad.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Well too bad.

2015
vs
1975

 

[habs03]

Got a few questions advance stats and so forth.

1: it seems like when looking at possession, when is corsi used, and not actually zone time, or puck possession time.

I don't believe shots attempt give the best picture, ex: dmen gets the puck at the off- blue line, he can try a weak shot and get it blocked and go the other way, or he can sometime just throw it around the boards and play the cycle game. If I get it right, according to corsi it shows better "possession numbers" by taking the shot that is going to get blocked in that scenario..

2: I've read a lot about zone entries, why is dumping the puck in and creating a cycle game seen as the opposite of playing a possession game, I mean to me cycling the puck off the dump in creates a lot of possession time, I remember the Sedins in their prime where great at just cycling the puck down low, same with Corey and Getz. Reason I bring this up is because I remember during the summer a lot of ppl brought up how Thomas should be playing in the bottome 6 this season because he had great possession stats, when in fact, he was useless in that regards, I mean he would always just skating the puck in and take a shot from the outside that would go wide and out of the zone, pretty would do that every game, and got lucky with a great shot once and scored his only NHL goal..

 

[ECWHSWI]

Got a few questions advance stats and so forth.

1: it seems like when looking at possession, when is corsi used, and not actually zone time, or puck possession time.

I don't believe shots attempt give the best picture, ex: dmen gets the puck at the off- blue line, he can try a weak shot and get it blocked and go the other way, or he can sometime just throw it around the boards and play the cycle game. If I get it right, according to corsi it shows better "possession numbers" by taking the shot that is going to get blocked in that scenario..

2: I've read a lot about zone entries, why is dumping the puck in and creating a cycle game seen as the opposite of playing a possession game, I mean to me cycling the puck off the dump in creates a lot of possession time, I remember the Sedins in their prime where great at just cycling the puck down low, same with Corey and Getz. Reason I bring this up is because I remember during the summer a lot of ppl brought up how Thomas should be playing in the bottome 6 this season because he had great possession stats, when in fact, he was useless in that regards, I mean he would always just skating the puck in and take a shot from the outside that would go wide and out of the zone, pretty would do that every game, and got lucky with a great shot once and scored his only NHL goal..

cause you're giving the puck away, you have to "fight" to get a puck you already had before dumping it.

 

[Rapala]

cause you're giving the puck away, you have to "fight" to get a puck you already had before dumping it.

Gee isn't that taxing?

 

[Hoople]

Same poor defensive play that was present all season long...thats not poor defensive play, thats da gameplan.

Was it D play or Price?

This where your argument gets convoluted and forces you to do the spin-o-Rama.

The Habs gave up the fewest goals (almong with Chicago) during the regular season. To back up your argument, you are forced to say our D played badly and it was all Price and Therrien sucks.

Because YOU KNOW and you saw our D playing poorly in the playoffs. To continue your narrative, you are once again forced to say Therrien sucks........or Carey Price sucks.

It's a no-brainer. I know what you will say (spin)

 

[ECWHSWI]

Was it D play or Price?

This where your argument gets convoluted and forces you to do the spin-o-Rama.

The Habs gave up the fewest goals (almong with Chicago) during the regular season. To back up your argument, you are forced to say our D played badly and it was all Price and Therrien sucks.

Because YOU KNOW and you saw our D playing poorly in the playoffs. To continue your narrative, you are once again forced to say Therrien sucks........or Carey Price sucks.

so, in wich aspect of the game you think the coach is good ?

 

[FuzzyWuzzy]

so, in wich aspect of the game you think the coach is good ?

He's good at on-the-fly adjustments and bench management overall. Always does little changes that seem to work immediately. He's a good motivator and knows how to deal with young players.

He's also very good at mouth-breathing into the mic during his press conferences. I think it's part of his masterplan to make his post-game interviews unwatchable.

 

[habs03]

cause you're giving the puck away, you have to "fight" to get a puck you already had before dumping it.

In most cases when teams do this, they are putting in a corner with the forward knowning its going there, so you are not really creating a 50-50 battle..

I mean shooting the puck knowing its likely to get blocked and go the other way is also given the puck away..

 

[habs03]

From Elliot Friedman's 30's thoughts, near the end, it looks like MT plans on maybe having Patches playing with Galchenyuk but not until he is ready to face other teams top lines, seems like he has them on separate lines so Gally doesn't have to face tough matches up.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-the-aftermath-of-the-mike-richards-settlement/

 

[Rapala]

He's good at on-the-fly adjustments and bench management overall. Always does little changes that seem to work immediately. He's a good motivator and knows how to deal with young players.

He's also very good at mouth-breathing into the mic during his press conferences. I think it's part of his masterplan to make his post-game interviews unwatchable.

I've seen posts that were exactly opposite of what you call good bench management.
If moving Weise off the first line is one of those little adjustments that seem to work right away...
sorry it gets disqualified.

The mouth breathing post game press conference is his greatest asset no doubt about it.

 

[ColinO]

so, in wich aspect of the game you think the coach is good ?

As has already been said, MT has done a good job with 5 on 5. He has concentrated his efforts on preventing goals against rather than creating offence and as a result the team GF% was very good last year. Now all the "yeah but it's all Price" arguments come out but isn't that was a good coach does - use his best players to their potential?
As has also been said, he has dealt with young players effectively. He has not moved them along too quickly and has probably had something to do with the obviously good chemistry and comradery on the team.

 

[ECWHSWI]

In most cases when teams do this, they are putting in a corner with the forward knowning its going there, so you are not really creating a 50-50 battle..

I mean shooting the puck knowing its likely to get blocked and go the other way is also given the puck away..

so do the opponents, they understand you don't plan on dumping the puck and put on the breaks you know...


so... you think the only two options in hockey are dumping and shooting the puck at opponents pads ???

 

[Rapala]

From Elliot Friedman's 30's thoughts, near the end, it looks like MT plans on maybe having Patches playing with Galchenyuk but not until he is ready to face other teams top lines, seems like he has them on separate lines so Gally doesn't have to face tough matches up.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-the-aftermath-of-the-mike-richards-settlement/

Of course he does we got that from Gaston on AC before camp was even out.
Eller is toast on that line no matter how well he plays.

 

[ECWHSWI]

He's good at on-the-fly adjustments and bench management overall. Always does little changes that seem to work immediately. He's a good motivator and knows how to deal with young players.

He's also very good at mouth-breathing into the mic during his press conferences. I think it's part of his masterplan to make his post-game interviews unwatchable.

that you'll have to explain to the guy I quoted... cause really, he was whining Gilbert was damn horrible on the PK last PO, yet in the very last game of Habs-PO he still was sent on the ice on the PK (for example)...

as for little changes well, we're still waiting for these little changes on the PP, despite it dropping every season...

 

[ECWHSWI]

As has already been said, MT has done a good job with 5 on 5. He has concentrated his efforts on preventing goals against rather than creating offence and as a result the team GF% was very good last year. Now all the "yeah but it's all Price" arguments come out but isn't that was a good coach does - use his best players to their potential?
As has also been said, he has dealt with young players effectively. He has not moved them along too quickly and has probably had something to do with the obviously good chemistry and comradery on the team.

considering we were 16th amongst 16 PO teams last season in Goals For, there is no doubt at all on that one.


goalies have their own coach, there is very little management from the HC when it comes to goalies, even when deciding when to give your #1 a day off it's being discussed with the goalie coach...

as for MT being credited for Habs defensive play well... I wish I had that picture or Price leaving the building trophy-less last June, wish I had, must have lost it somewhere...

 

[ColinO]

considering we were 16th amongst 16 PO teams last season in Goals For, there is no doubt at all on that one.


goalies have their own coach, there is very little management from the HC when it comes to goalies, even when deciding when to give your #1 a day off it's being discussed with the goalie coach...

as for MT being credited for Habs defensive play well... I wish I had that picture or Price leaving the building trophy-less last June, wish I had, must have lost it somewhere...

Yes but we were 6th in GF%. That's what happens when you focus on defence and not offence.
So Therrien gets the blame if we don't score - but no credit when the other team doesn't score. I get it?

 

[Kriss E]

Got a few questions advance stats and so forth.

1: it seems like when looking at possession, when is corsi used, and not actually zone time, or puck possession time.

I don't believe shots attempt give the best picture, ex: dmen gets the puck at the off- blue line, he can try a weak shot and get it blocked and go the other way, or he can sometime just throw it around the boards and play the cycle game. If I get it right, according to corsi it shows better "possession numbers" by taking the shot that is going to get blocked in that scenario..

2: I've read a lot about zone entries, why is dumping the puck in and creating a cycle game seen as the opposite of playing a possession game, I mean to me cycling the puck off the dump in creates a lot of possession time, I remember the Sedins in their prime where great at just cycling the puck down low, same with Corey and Getz. Reason I bring this up is because I remember during the summer a lot of ppl brought up how Thomas should be playing in the bottome 6 this season because he had great possession stats, when in fact, he was useless in that regards, I mean he would always just skating the puck in and take a shot from the outside that would go wide and out of the zone, pretty would do that every game, and got lucky with a great shot once and scored his only NHL goal..

1- It's not perfect but it's only logical. The more shots you take, the more likely you have the puck. Eventually it will move to possession time, I'm surprised how it has taken so long for it to come out, but I believe they have started doing it.
2- You really need people to explain to you why ridding yourself of possession only to go exert some energy battling to maybe get it back is less effective than simply retaining it??..
Also, cycling the puck around is very different than dumping it. When you cycle the puck, you're just passing it around. You still have possession of it. When you dump it, you get rid of it. It's unavoidable to dump the puck in. When the opposition is in good position or you're going through a line change, you will dump it in because you don't want to risk turning it over and giving up a scoring chance.
There is a massive difference between using it sporadically when forced into it, and using it as the main strategy to enter the zone as we have been doing over the past 2 years. We also dumped it out of the zone very often, which usually gave it right back to the opposition.

We played a more possessive game in the past two games though, hopefully it's a sign of things to come.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yes but we were 6th in GF%. That's what happens when you focus on defence and not offence.
So Therrien gets the blame if we don't score - but no credit when the other team doesn't score. I get it?

I'd really like to know what you think of the following :
William M. Jennings
Ted Lindsay
Vezina
and Hart

 

[ColinO]

I'd really like to know what you think of the following :
William M. Jennings
Ted Lindsay
Vezina
and Hart

Look, you asked for examples of what Therrien does well as a coach. I gave you my answer. You appear to just want an argument. The department of arguments is three doors down. Try there. Cheers.

 

[Kriss E]

Yes but we were 6th in GF%. That's what happens when you focus on defence and not offence.
So Therrien gets the blame if we don't score - but no credit when the other team doesn't score. I get it?

If the other team didn't constantly outshot and outchanced us, then sure, he would get credit. That wasn't our case though, and disregarding even those two metrics, simply watching the team scramble in our zone repeatedly was enough to question Therrien.
We didn't play a strong defensive system. It was terribly weak. Price had to make 4-5 highlight reel saves almost every game for us to win.