Therrien - New Season Edition

[ColinO]

Obviously Montreal didn't dominate the firs 5 games. But it's certainly not a stretch to say that, with one game going 2 OTs, one lost in the very last second of the game and the fourth game being a win, that the Habs could have been up 3-1 after 4 games quite easily.
The Habs big problem last year was really the PP. A lot could have been different had that been even average. And that, frankly, is almost all on the coaching staff.

 

[BLONG7]

Obviously Montreal didn't dominate the firs 5 games. But it's certainly not a stretch to say that, with one game going 2 OTs, one lost in the very last second of the game and the fourth game being a win, that the Habs could have been up 3-1 after 4 games quite easily.
The Habs big problem last year was really the PP. A lot could have been different had that been even average. And that, frankly, is almost all on the coaching staff.

This post, is so bang on!!

 

[jaffy27]

Pacioretty
Plekanec
Gallagher
Galchenyuk
Eller
Semin
Desharnais
Fleishmann
Weise


who are the 3 weakest offensive players in your mind?

Weise, Eller, Fleishmann...?

expecting Mac, Hudon, Scherbak to be better offensively than those 3 anytime soon is pretty lofty expectations. Quite possible that none of the three ever become as good offensively as Flash is/has been.


The problem with our offensively challenged team is not the quality of offensive talent, its their usage and deployment.

That's easy.....DD, Fleishmann and Weise

Fleishmann has scored 16 goals in the last 2yrs and only 1 in 14 games with the run and gun Ducks, so please do not pin this on the coach and talk about how good he WAS!! With that great team in Anaheim, he was on pace for 6 goals for the season., not really a scoring juggernaut eh!.......and Weise should be on the 4th line, he's an energy guy that can score the odd goal.

As for DD......well we know his story, over documented on these boards.

When..and I stress when, McCarron finds his game and he will, Third line right winger will be a nice spot for him, Scherbak beside Galchenyuk when he finds his game and Hudon as third line winger.

They may all make the team or they may all faulter....the only way to find out is to play them. I understand why they didn't play them this year, first year in the pros and all, but I expect the Habs to be a better team offensively when these 3 make the team on a permanent basis.

 

[DAChampion]

After 5 games in the series the shots were 173 to 127 in favor for the Habs, and on top of that the Habs had 10 goal posts.

Hello?

Helloooooooo

It's been 6 months and counting buddy, time to wake up.

Try watching the games instead of just looking up shot counts.

 

[Kriss E]

Ok listen, here's two facts, if you don't agree with both, I can't continue this discussion:

-the Habs dominated the Bolts the first 5 games

-the Habs are less talented offensively than the Bolts

Again, what the hell is your point? Btw, those are more opinions, not facts. A fact would be Price won 4 trophies. TB beat Mtl. Pacioretty is the Captain. Those are facts.
In any event, what the heck are you even arguing about?
Why are you rambling on and on about this?

 

[Kriss E]

That's easy.....DD, Fleishmann and Weise

Fleishmann has scored 16 goals in the last 2yrs and only 1 in 14 games with the run and gun Ducks, so please do not pin this on the coach and talk about how good he WAS!! With that great team in Anaheim, he was on pace for 6 goals for the season., not really a scoring juggernaut eh!.......and Weise should be on the 4th line, he's an energy guy that can score the odd goal.

As for DD......well we know his story, over documented on these boards.

When..and I stress when, McCarron finds his game and he will, Third line right winger will be a nice spot for him, Scherbak beside Galchenyuk when he finds his game and Hudon as third line winger.

They may all make the team or they may all faulter....the only way to find out is to play them. I understand why they didn't play them this year, first year in the pros and all, but I expect the Habs to be a better team offensively when these 3 make the team on a permanent basis.

Those guys aren't ready to play in the NHL. How much of an impact will they have here?? It's way too soon to tell. I don't think Hudon will be more than a 3rd liner. Hopefully I'm wrong. Mac and Bak, no clue. Let them develop in AHL first, see how that goes. By the time they make the team, who knows what our NHL roster will look like. After 3 years, Gallagher and Galchenyuk were only in the 40pt mark.
So how much of an impact will those young players have on our team by the time they're settled in, who knows.

 

[jaffy27]

Those guys aren't ready to play in the NHL. How much of an impact will they have here?? It's way too soon to tell. I don't think Hudon will be more than a 3rd liner. Hopefully I'm wrong. Mac and Bak, no clue. Let them develop in AHL first, see how that goes. By the time they make the team, who knows what our NHL roster will look like. After 3 years, Gallagher and Galchenyuk were only in the 40pt mark.
So how much of an impact will those young players have on our team by the time they're settled in, who knows.

That's why I over emphasized the word WHEN they're ready.

Weise career high in points is 29
Fleishmann in last 2 yrs has 28 points as season high...he's 31 and declining

I'm gonna take an educated guess and say that one of our 2 First round picks that have had really good junior careers are gonna surpass them totals....but like you said, "who knows"....they could be 50 point guys or 20 point guys...time will tell

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Eichle close to 21 minutes in his 1st NHL game and the buffoon is still playing Galchenyuk 14 minutes on night in his 4th season. Yes, I realize Eichle is a bigger talent but it is still ridiculous when you look at where the ice-time goes on the Habs roster.

This makes me so sad... Top tier coaches identify their top players and play them accordingly.

Therrien identifies his man crushes and plays them accordingly. Some things never change.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not to mention you cant have the team play "risk free grind" hockey all season long then say "ok playoffs are here, now we have to push the pace, hold possession". No, it doesnt work that way

We've seen this happen a few times as well. We'll play a "grinding style" in the regular season and then try to flip to something else in the postseason. I don't know if it's players deviating from the system themselves or a planned play but either way it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to change your style once you hit the playoffs.

As for the whole Tampa thing, we were the better team overall in my opinion. But our PP sucked and theirs was absolutely brilliant. That was a huge factor in the series. They executed very, very well and we generated no pressure whatsoever.

 

[Yoor]

This post, is so bang on!!

I would have to agree with this as well, our biggest issue was (and still remains) the PP. I am looking forward to seeing the adjustments the coaching staff will make this year, but from the small sample size (1PP in season opener) looks like the strategy is still to roll regular lines as power play units....which is ridiculous in my opinion. Stack the darn PP units with fire power and devise a strategy that will have the other teams scrambling

obvious example: PP1

Semin - Galch - Patches
PK - Markov

on PP1 unit every single guy there is a scoring threat...you have Semin on the left with the one timer option, same with Patch on the right and Galch up the middle/front of the net...and obviously the D is scary as well...teams would need to respect that much more than what is currently being deployed as below:

Current PP units:

Eller -Galch -Semin
PK - Markov

Patch - Plek -Gally
Beaulieu-Petry (not sure if Emelin is getting this time or not)


Can someone kindly (and seriously) explain to me why the coaching staff continue to roll out regular lines on the PP? I am being sincere here...I really don't understand it. Thank you.

 

[ColinO]

Can someone kindly (and seriously) explain to me why the coaching staff continue to roll out regular lines on the PP? I am being sincere here...I really don't understand it. Thank you.

I can't read MT's mind but I can think of two reasons.
1) mixing up lines is difficult to transition to and from. It's hard to work your way back to regular lines once the PP is over. This is not a small issue.
2) it takes time to develop chemistry - which I take to mean a sense of where the other players on your line are going to be in any given situation. Linemates develop that - inserting someone else into the mix doesn't always work very well.
That said, I think it would be worth a try putting the lines together that you suggest. It couldn't be worse.

 

[Habnot]

This makes me so sad... Top tier coaches identify their top players and play them accordingly.

Therrien identifies his man crushes and plays them accordingly. Some things never change.

This is where the Therrien detractors sound silly and disingenuous. Reminds me of the evangelical conservatives living in a bizarro world where you keep repeating mistruths even when presented with evidence to the contrary.

You don't become a successful NHL coach by doing what you are insinuating. It's just plain insulting. You don't get to coach 11 years in the NHL by being incompetent. He's a winning coach no matter what yardstick you choose. Detractors will quickly say Crosby or Price - but it's been proven that the Habs win at nearly the same pace when Price is not in nets.

Let's take your premise - Eichel vs Galchenyuk. Eichel is possible a generational talent who arguably dominated at the last World Championship while Galchenyuk didn't play as a 17 year old with a major injury. Is that really a fair comparison? Do you not understand that physically Galchenyuk was not ready? Do you not see the difference in Galchenyuk's physique this year ? Yet the only this you can say is that it's all due to our moron coach and his man crushes...

Players seem to enjoy playing for him, nothing but praise especially from the star players. Here's an example from Subban:

"I don’t play hockey to please people in the media or the critics. Everybody has a label, in terms of what type of player they are; that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s true. The one thing that I do know is that since Marc Bergevin and Michel Therrien have taken over the team, my game’s only gone up. They’ve worked really hard with me to improve my game all around, and I think, the number one thing is when I met with them, when I first started playing for Michel a couple years back, the first thing they said is, you’re a good player, but we want to make you an even better player. Our job is to make sure that you’re getting better every year, and every game. You know, there’s been no shortage of them holding me accountable, and that’s the way I want it to be. Every night whether I’d make a mistake or I haven’t played my best game, they’re always going to hold me accountable, whether it’s in front of the team, or individually. To me, that’s made me a better player. As much as people are going to congratulate me, it’s team success, and ourselves as an organization, that has helped us individually; myself, and guys like Carey and guys who are up for awards. So I have to thank the organization a lot for that."

So excuse me for thinking that this is a lynching by design, an orchestrated ideological take down without no room for a fair and balanced approach. The evidence is irrefutable if you are willing to be fair in assessing Therrien's tenure with the Habs.

 

[ColinO]

^^^^Yes but in fairness Subban actually knows what he is talking about.

 

[Kriss E]

That's why I over emphasized the word WHEN they're ready.

Weise career high in points is 29
Fleishmann in last 2 yrs has 28 points as season high...he's 31 and declining

I'm gonna take an educated guess and say that one of our 2 First round picks that have had really good junior careers are gonna surpass them totals....but like you said, "who knows"....they could be 50 point guys or 20 point guys...time will tell

But that's not the point. I would certainly hope that all three of those guys end up being better than Weise and Floosh. The point is what will the rest of the team look like. You said you expect the Habs to be a better offensive team when those guys are ready. If and when that happens, we're talking what, 3 years from now?..Markov will be 37 this year, so, he'll be what 40..will he even be playing? He's a crucial player for us. You can add Emelin and Gilbert. Half our defensive group will likely have changed, will it be for the better?? Plek will be going 36, he might not even be here anymore. Will Galchenyuk become this top center or will he just be a 40-50pt center? Where will DD be? Will Gallagher be able to keep up his scoring pace or will his grinding style tire him out?..Is Eller going to be a great winger?..

There's just way too many question marks to say our team will be better offensively.

 

[Not The One]

This is where the Therrien detractors sound silly and disingenuous. Reminds me of the evangelical conservatives living in a bizarro world where you keep repeating mistruths even when presented with evidence to the contrary.

You don't become a successful NHL coach by doing what you are insinuating. It's just plain insulting. You don't get to coach 11 years in the NHL by being incompetent. He's a winning coach no matter what yardstick you choose. Detractors will quickly say Crosby or Price - but it's been proven that the Habs win at nearly the same pace when Price is not in nets.

Let's take your premise - Eichel vs Galchenyuk. Eichel is possible a generational talent who arguably dominated at the last World Championship while Galchenyuk didn't play as a 17 year old with a major injury. Is that really a fair comparison? Do you not understand that physically Galchenyuk was not ready? Do you not see the difference in Galchenyuk's physique this year ? Yet the only this you can say is that it's all due to our moron coach and his man crushes...

Players seem to enjoy playing for him, nothing but praise especially from the star players. Here's an example from Subban:

"I don’t play hockey to please people in the media or the critics. Everybody has a label, in terms of what type of player they are; that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s true. The one thing that I do know is that since Marc Bergevin and Michel Therrien have taken over the team, my game’s only gone up. They’ve worked really hard with me to improve my game all around, and I think, the number one thing is when I met with them, when I first started playing for Michel a couple years back, the first thing they said is, you’re a good player, but we want to make you an even better player. Our job is to make sure that you’re getting better every year, and every game. You know, there’s been no shortage of them holding me accountable, and that’s the way I want it to be. Every night whether I’d make a mistake or I haven’t played my best game, they’re always going to hold me accountable, whether it’s in front of the team, or individually. To me, that’s made me a better player. As much as people are going to congratulate me, it’s team success, and ourselves as an organization, that has helped us individually; myself, and guys like Carey and guys who are up for awards. So I have to thank the organization a lot for that."

So excuse me for thinking that this is a lynching by design, an orchestrated ideological take down without no room for a fair and balanced approach. The evidence is irrefutable if you are willing to be fair in assessing Therrien's tenure with the Habs.

Not only that, but EVERY SINGLE FANBASE complains about the SAME thing. I've read Wings fans complaining that Babcock favors this player over that other one (Subban in the Olympics, anybody), Bruins fans rant about Julien's favorites and Rangers and Canucks fans do or did the same thing with Vigneault. Fact is every fan of every team can repeat the same dumb criticisms, but these coaches keep getting jobs and keep on winning...

 

[Kriss E]

This is where the Therrien detractors sound silly and disingenuous. Reminds me of the evangelical conservatives living in a bizarro world where you keep repeating mistruths even when presented with evidence to the contrary.

You don't become a successful NHL coach by doing what you are insinuating. It's just plain insulting. You don't get to coach 11 years in the NHL by being incompetent. He's a winning coach no matter what yardstick you choose. Detractors will quickly say Crosby or Price - but it's been proven that the Habs win at nearly the same pace when Price is not in nets.

Let's take your premise - Eichel vs Galchenyuk. Eichel is possible a generational talent who arguably dominated at the last World Championship while Galchenyuk didn't play as a 17 year old with a major injury. Is that really a fair comparison? Do you not understand that physically Galchenyuk was not ready? Do you not see the difference in Galchenyuk's physique this year ? Yet the only this you can say is that it's all due to our moron coach and his man crushes...

Players seem to enjoy playing for him, nothing but praise especially from the star players. Here's an example from Subban:

"I don’t play hockey to please people in the media or the critics. Everybody has a label, in terms of what type of player they are; that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s true. The one thing that I do know is that since Marc Bergevin and Michel Therrien have taken over the team, my game’s only gone up. They’ve worked really hard with me to improve my game all around, and I think, the number one thing is when I met with them, when I first started playing for Michel a couple years back, the first thing they said is, you’re a good player, but we want to make you an even better player. Our job is to make sure that you’re getting better every year, and every game. You know, there’s been no shortage of them holding me accountable, and that’s the way I want it to be. Every night whether I’d make a mistake or I haven’t played my best game, they’re always going to hold me accountable, whether it’s in front of the team, or individually. To me, that’s made me a better player. As much as people are going to congratulate me, it’s team success, and ourselves as an organization, that has helped us individually; myself, and guys like Carey and guys who are up for awards. So I have to thank the organization a lot for that."

So excuse me for thinking that this is a lynching by design, an orchestrated ideological take down without no room for a fair and balanced approach. The evidence is irrefutable if you are willing to be fair in assessing Therrien's tenure with the Habs.

Man crush is too much, but are you seriously denying that coaches don't have favorites?? This isn't privy to Therrien.

 

[optimus2861]

You don't become a successful NHL coach by doing what you are insinuating. It's just plain insulting. You don't get to coach 11 years in the NHL by being incompetent.

(mod)

Michel Therrien remains Marc Bergevin's single biggest mistake in managing this club, and it will earn Bergevin a special place in hell when he's finally shown the door after squandering this enormous opportunity. This roster is just too good to miss the playoffs, fatally expose Therrien, and provide Bergevin with the political cover he feels he needs to make the necessary coaching change. Not that Bergevin would do it anyway; he'd babble some excuse about it being a 'transition year', how much he believes in Therrien, and we'd do it all over again.

We're not making the Cup final this year. And Bergevin will laud Therrien's work after our too-early elimination. Again. And we'll have this same set of conversations in May. And October. Again.

We're boned. Still. Again. Whatever.

 

[mechantmardi]

CTV Brian Wilde predicting that Michel Therrien will be the first coach in the league to send out 2D in a 3-on-3 overtime.

Subban, Beaulieu, Petry, are mobile D-men but I hope MT uses 2 forwards...

 

[Lebowski]

It's funny to suggest Therrien is a "winning coach" and going back to his Pittsburgh days as if it proved something...

... Conveniently ignoring the fact the Pens only went on to win the cup after canning Therrien midway through the 08-09 season.

 

[Habnot]

Man crush is too much, but are you seriously denying that coaches don't have favorites?? This isn't privy to Therrien.

That wasn't the premise. Smokey was going on about how Eichel player 21 minutes last night, and this somehow proved how much of an idiot Therrien is.

And yes coaches do have favorites and it's tied to success. You trust individuals in certain situations. As long as you keep getting results it is hard to change. I understand how some wanted Subban to play more in difficult situations early on, but looking at the finished product you cannot argue the success. Yet Therrien gets no credit with developing the youth of this team.

BTW - I am not arguing the opposite of the detractors - there are aspects of Therrien that I don't appreciate - but I am humble enough to acknowledge that I don't have the whole picture and I am not privy to the dressing room. What is unimpeachable is his record and what players choose to say publicly. You have to go through some Olympic level gymnastic to only see the negative of Therrien.

 

[FerrisRox]

You understand a bit better now how ridiculous saying ''we had 110pts, we're awesome!'' is?

Do you understand how ridiculous "we had 110pts, the coach should be fired!" is?

 

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Do you understand how ridiculous "we had 110pts, the coach should be fired!" is?

Haha seriously.

 

[FerrisRox]

Really? Who did the Hawks have?

Price >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crawford
PK = Keith (this will upset some people, I know)
Markov < Seabrook (only because of age)
Patch = Kane (except when it comes to dangling, Kanes probably the best in the league right now)
Toews <<<<<< Plek
Chucky >>>> Richards
Gally << Sharp



Tell me how come Chicago was SC worthy, and our team isnt even "a cup contender"

Marian Hossa?
Brandon Saad?
Niklas Hjalmarsson?
Antoine Vermette?

Did you think nobody would notice you left out all those guys?

 

[Milhouse40]

This makes me so sad... Top tier coaches identify their top players and play them accordingly.

Therrien identifies his man crushes and plays them accordingly. Some things never change.

WTF are you talking about?

It's not like Therrien will send one of his favorite all the time on the PP.....
It's not like Therrien will use a players who don't have the skills necessary to fill a role...
It's not like Therrien have players he openly prefers than others......

Like Bouillon, who never played PP for any other coach in the NHL, played on our PP for a full year without any results. And we're talking about a Bouillon one year away from retirement.

That press conference is a proof of Therrien's favorites system.
Bouillon was one of Therrien's favorite and was used as such.
Wonder if Therrien will show up for Eller's retirement PC....

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That wasn't the premise. Smokey was going on about how Eichel player 21 minutes last night, and this somehow proved how much of an idiot Therrien is.

And yes coaches do have favorites and it's tied to success. You trust individuals in certain situations. As long as you keep getting results it is hard to change. I understand how some wanted Subban to play more in difficult situations early on, but looking at the finished product you cannot argue the success. Yet Therrien gets no credit with developing the youth of this team.

BTW - I am not arguing the opposite of the detractors - there are aspects of Therrien that I don't appreciate - but I am humble enough to acknowledge that I don't have the whole picture and I am not privy to the dressing room. What is unimpeachable is his record and what players choose to say publicly. You have to go through some Olympic level gymnastic to only see the negative of Therrien.

You don't have to go through any kind of mental gymnastics to see he's a bad coach. By pretty much every metric (that a coach actually has something to do with) he's fares very poorly. He's simply blessed with the best goalie (maybe the best player) in the league. You've actually got things backwards here, the mental gymnastics come into play when you try to find the positives with his coaching.

As for what players choose to say publicly - first you are incorrect in your assumption that it's all been positive. Secondly, players rarely go after a former coach and it almost never happens with an active one. Despite this however, he has had many former players who have gone out of their way to criticize him and that's not something you see very often. We've also seen some thinly veiled swipes at him from players in our own dressing room. So I'm not sure why you'd raise this as an argument for him because if anything, it supports the notion that he's had issues with players in the past.