There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.

[JFedol]

The biggest issue for the Leafs, is they're usually playing some perennial cup contending team like Boston or Tampa Bay. Yeah, prime Hedman/Vasilesky will cut down on your production a bit. Tuuka/Bergeron aren't good for the point per game output. Bobrovsky/Barkov will slow you down a bit.

And if they win this series, next up is Carolina. Another defensive powerhouse.

Carolina has non-existent high end talent though. Their defensive pressure obviously will be damaging but if Matthews and Marner can just lock tf in and produce clutch numbers when it matters.

Leafs wouldn't have to be worried about Carolinas defense considering their whole meta is just depth scoring.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Craziest thing... they have played more than a single playoff.

And Nylander is always the best performer

 

[JFedol]

Great game from Mitch and Austin

But the past 8 years of leafs playoff hockey is arguably the most wasted potential in the cap era IMO. You have 4 elite players who....happen to be big time underperformers. Yikes

Black magic or a curse ritual may have happened back in 2017 ngl.

If all 3 were playoff monsters. It'd be terrifying trying to stop a Leafs team in a playoff series lmao

 

[Strangle]

Yeah, winning a Cup is hard.

There is a reason the East has been represented by a team from the Atlantic Division in 80% of the Stanley cups over the past decade

 

[Strangle]

The other thing I was thinking last night watching the game is that these guys literally have to do everything.

They have to shutdown the other teams top lines, they have to score all the goals, they have to go deep into their own zone to help the defense (except Nylander, I guess), they have to bring the puck out of their zone, they have to make the first pass out of the zone, they have to all help run the powerplay, half of them have to play on the penalty kill. They have to take all important offensive draws AND all the most important defensive draws.

If the leafs had a 3rd line that could shut down the barkov line, I think you’d see more offense from them.

It really does feel like they are responsible for everything on the ice.

It’s gotten better this year, the 3rd line can finally spend some time in the o-zone and pin a team for a shift or two per game.

The 3rd line can finally be trusted to take the odd defensive faceoff.

It’s just been an incomplete team for years under Dubas but that’s changing and it’s changing quickly. The only question is if there’s been enough time to fix it before major changes have to be made

 

[JFedol]

One thing nobody talks about when it comes to Matthews/Marner is how they've gained 0 muscle in their NHL days (or next to it).

Mitch was listed as 5'11 160 on his draft day and he is currently listed as 6' 170 basically no weight change, then:

Now:

Auston was listed at 6'2 216 and is now listed at 6'3 217 (lol), then:

Now:

Meanwhile Nylander was listed at 5'11 170 and today sits at 6' 200 (prolly why his play doesn't change in the playoffs), an underrated reason why they struggle so much in the playoffs, the best players generally add 20+lbs of lean mass over their NHL years (Sid+Nate being too good examples of that) to avoid being pushed around

That but I think the bigger travesty is how much Marner hasn't really done much to improve his shot at all.

Good for 30 goals a season, but this dude will most likely never be a threat shooting wise and teams know lol

 

[KniesMadeBradyCry]

It's like the opposite of Oilers where McDavid and Draisaitl get to feast every year in a free 1st round match-up against the Kings. Maybe the Oilers duo wouldn't elevate their game so much in the playoffs if they had to play prime Tampa or Florida every year on the first round.

This needs to be said and understood by a lot more people. It’s 100% accurate. But you'll hear “excuses” as a response which is lazy

 

[Strangle]

It's like the opposite of Oilers where McDavid and Draisaitl get to feast every year in a free 1st round match-up against the Kings. Maybe the Oilers duo wouldn't elevate their game so much in the playoffs if they had to play prime Tampa or Florida every year on the first round.

Agreed 100%

But don’t forget about the buzzsaw bruins team that had been hell to get passed over the last 10 years as well

 

[HockeyVirus]

Biggest issue with M&M is their compete level.

Wasn't an issue last night even ignoring the game winning goal they scored. Matthews was throwing the body every chance he could. Marner won more board battles last night than he did in the 3 games before combined.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

The biggest issue for the Leafs, is they're usually playing some perennial cup contending team like Boston or Tampa Bay. Yeah, prime Hedman/Vasilesky will cut down on your production a bit. Tuuka/Bergeron aren't good for the point per game output. Bobrovsky/Barkov will slow you down a bit.

And if they win this series, next up is Carolina. Another defensive powerhouse.

Unlike other teams, the Leafs have been forced to play top opponents in the playoffs.

 

[MessierII]

The biggest issue for the Leafs, is they're usually playing some perennial cup contending team like Boston or Tampa Bay. Yeah, prime Hedman/Vasilesky will cut down on your production a bit. Tuuka/Bergeron aren't good for the point per game output. Bobrovsky/Barkov will slow you down a bit.

And if they win this series, next up is Carolina. Another defensive powerhouse.

If you want to win the cup you have to beat everybody. Your basically saying the problem with the leafs is they aren’t actually a cup contender.

 

[JKG33]

As a Panthers fan, Nylander shouldn't be included with the other three. He delivers in the playoffs and earns his salary.

Until someone has him lined up for a hit, where he pre-empitvely loses the puck to avoid contact

 

[Golden_Jet]

Wasn't an issue last night even ignoring the game winning goal they scored. Matthews was throwing the body every chance he could. Marner won more board battles last night than he did in the 3 games before combined.

Just needs to be more than one game, but tbf Matthews was credited with one hit last night.

 

[winnipegger]

There's some similarities to the caps pre-cup. They had to get through the Penguins/Rangers and could never do it. Then, they did.

 

[Strangle]

Wasn't an issue last night even ignoring the game winning goal they scored. Matthews was throwing the body every chance he could. Marner won more board battles last night than he did in the 3 games before combined.

Matthews was absolutely dominating to start the game, you could tell he had clicked it into a higher gear

 

[Strangle]

If you want to win the cup you have to beat everybody. Your basically saying the problem with the leafs is they aren’t actually a cup contender.

People think the oilers are a cup contender, but they couldn’t beat Florida last year either

The way you say it, there is only 1 cup contender and that’s the team the wins the cup.

That’s not what contender means. The word you’re thinking of is Stanley Cup Champion

 

[MessierII]

People think the oilers are a cup contender, but they couldn’t beat Florida last year either

The way you say it, there is only 1 cup contender and that’s the team the wins the cup.

That’s not what contender means. The word you’re thinking of is Stanley Cup Champion

They didn’t lose to the champs every year though. Oilers genuinely have for 3 straight years. If Boston like 10 years post cup is something you can’t manage you never had a chance. Leafs also lost series to Columbus and Montreal in there. A contender will find a way to beat the team in front of them and string together some form of a run at least once in a while.

 

[Strangle]

They didn’t lose to the champs every year though. Oilers genuinely have for 3 straight years. If Boston like 10 years post cup is something you can’t manage you never had a chance. Leafs also lost series to Columbus and Montreal in there. A contender will find a way to beat the team in front of them and string together some form of a run at least once in a while.

The Columbus series was just a bad series to lose. Happens to teams sometimes.

The Montreal series is an absolute horror show of a choke job.

The rest of them? The leafs have been giving everything the top teams in the Atlantic can handle for years. Boston, Tampa, Florida and Toronto have all been taking turns being the best of the best in the entire league. They all just so happen to play in the same division.

This year might be the leafs turn to come out on top of that absolute beast of a division.

Coming up 2nd best in that group or even 3rd or 4th is nothing to be ashamed of. Those are all time great teams.

Yes, even Boston who set a regular season record recently and went to the Stanley cup finals in 2019

Tampa who went to 3 straight finals

Florida who have currently been to 2 consecutive finals.

Even the Montreal team that beat the leafs made it to the finals

 

[MessierII]

The Columbus series was just a bad series to lose. Happens to teams sometimes.

The Montreal series is an absolute horror show of a choke job.

The rest of them? The leafs have been giving everything the top teams in the Atlantic can handle for years. Boston, Tampa, Florida and Toronto have all been taking turns being the best of the best in the entire league. They all just so happen to play in the same division.

This year might be the leafs turn to come out on top of that absolute beast of a division.

Coming up 2nd best in that group or even 3rd or 4th is nothing to be ashamed of. Those are all time great teams.

Yes, even Boston who set a regular season record recently and went to the Stanley cup finals in 2019

Tampa who went to 3 straight finals

Florida who have currently been to 2 straight finals

At some point you have to beat the team in front of you if you’re serious about winning a cup. If you can’t do that over a 9 year span then you just straight up aren’t that good.

 

[Strangle]

At some point you have to beat the team in front of you if you’re serious about winning a cup. If you can’t do that over a 9 year span then you just straight up aren’t that good.

That’s why we keep playing the games, yes

There are 6 teams left alive out of 32

One of them is the Toronto maple leafs. How can you say they “just straight up aren’t that good”?

 

[Ole Gil]

If you want to win the cup you have to beat everybody. Your basically saying the problem with the leafs is they aren’t actually a cup contender.

They were definitely underdogs against those teams. Sometimes underdogs win. But they've been unlucky, in that they face the best team in the first round. Because you don't have to beat everybody. They played Ottawa this year, and won in 6 like they were supposed to.

Toronto has to beat Tampa and Florida. If Toronto wins, Carolina doesn't have to beat Tampa or Florida.

But the original response was about regular season scoring vs. playoff scoring. When you're playing Boston/Tampa every year, your stats are not going to be as good as the regular season when you've got Chicago and San Jose on the schedule.

I don't think anyone sees Colorado and whatever goalie they found in the trash that year, and thinks "Wow, this is going to be tough to score in the playoffs."

 

[CostaRica]

Are people that impatient that they can't wait until the end of the series to judge them? As of now, the Leafs can still win the series. 5 days ago they nearly had a 3-0 series lead. The way the media and the fans are going with this whole thing makes me wonder if I am the only person who has ever followed the NHL playoffs. People are aware that the Leafs are still quite capable of winning the series, right?

This guy gets it

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

There is ABSOLUTELY something wrong with Matthews and Marner.

Matthews is always injured it seems, his wrist is f***ed his back is f***ed. Awesome player........but......

Marner is a great player. Had a career year with his contract up for renewal...........plays a perimiter game, basically quarterbacks the team style in that way. Not great in the playoffs. Do we really want to pay this guy $14m/8 ?

I'd let him walk. Holy freakin' cap space suddenly!!! Trade Matthews? Why not? Wow, we just opened up $30m in cap space and we still have Willy and Knies...............no need to blow the team up like some people throw around, it is actually time for a "re-tool", not like when Brian Burke came in and said that, team needed (and then was) completely blown up for a rebuild.

Leafs don't need a rebuild. Cap going up, create tons of cap space, build the team proper with UFA's looking at the capspace the Leafs have with those two players gone yet still a solid foundation.

But does the GM have the balls (or permission) to do something like that?

Just an idea.

 

[Bradely]

It's like the opposite of Oilers where McDavid and Draisaitl get to feast every year in a free 1st round match-up against the Kings. Maybe the Oilers duo wouldn't elevate their game so much in the playoffs if they had to play prime Tampa or Florida every year in the first round.

Did you voluntary not refer to first round lost against Boston, Montreal and Colombus!!!

 

[Zarzh]

"Depth scoring is the issue with the Leafs"

Meanwhile, Matthews has zero goals in this round. So apparently you can't expect your top guy to score to win you games, but you can put the blame on the depth scoring for not winning games.

The ONLY time you can use "lack of depth scoring" to excuse a team's losses to remove blame from the stars is if THE STARS ARE ACTUALLY SCORING. If Matthews had 5 goals this series and the Leafs were down 3-2 because of a lack of depth scoring, that's one thing. But when he literally hasn't scored this round, it's beyond silly to use depth scoring as a reason for the Leafs' on the brink of elimination.

Wrong, there's a really simple reason why, matchups.

If the other team can basically ignore the Leaf's bottom 6 it becomes easy to gameplan around the core 4. Before they got Knies, their top lines were basically playing 2 vs 3 in the playoffs.