There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.

[MikeS24]

And produces less than Marner and the same as Matthews...

Also, cheats a lot to create offense.

Other than that, 100% correct.

Nylander career playoff plus minus is within 2 of Matthews lol.

 

[MikeS24]

The big 4 are all soft, timid players. You don't win a cup with those.

I don't consider Tavares timid at all. He's getting older, but he is way more physical than the other three. Goes to the net non stop

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

When people say that, they are generally referring to scoring gritty, ugly goals. Not loosening up defensively to cheat for goals.

I mean I’m looking at the last game for context. You’re down 1-0, 2-0, or even 3-0.. you need to get yourself in the game. I’m not suggesting that Nylander should cheat for goals all the time but create some looks to get it back at the very least.

You’re up in goal(s), defend the lead. You’re down, get it back. It’s the usual saying on the bench.

Pretty crazy to suggest defending when you need goals from a 45 goal scorer.

 

[GMofOilers]

Nothing wrong other than they are the least clutch player in the league. They don’t elevate.

What’s their record in elimination games?

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner has 1 shot (a floating wrister from the blueline) is his past 3 games. He just attempted a 360, backhand, no look, up the middle pass...that was tape to tape to a panther defender. Who sent it back the other way and Marner missed his check...for the tap in goal against.

Marner literally...every year does more to benefit the opposition then the leafs.

All must win games 5-7:

vs Montreal he attempted a deke at the opposition D line, they stole it and scored.

Vs Tampa, he attempted a hail mary flip pass that was way short and went directly to a Tampa forward who scored.

Vs Florida a few years ago, he attempted a lateral pass to Matthews in his own zone, panthers stole it and scored.

Vs Montreal, on the PK, under 0 pressure, he flipped the puck out of the zone for a delay of game penalty. They score on the 5 vs 3.

Vs Boston last year, he was partly to blame for Pastrnak scoring the game 7 OT winner.

Most importantly. Hes been also invisible offensively during all these games.

 

[JFedol]

It would be a different thing if Matthews was a pass-first guy and constantly setting guys up for goals. But scoring goals is his biggest strength. He's been getting assists, but I feel many have come off rebounds from his shots or have been secondary assists or PP assists off routine passes.

Massively different, his shot being his biggest strength is what hurts Matthews a f*** ton and a lot of people dont realize this or downplay it IMO.

The best playoff performers in history are always almost dual threat playmakers. They generate way too many more chances that the goals that people love about by goalscorers are not enough to compensate. They also have a 10x better chance of driving play at a way higher level compared to goalscorers.

Matthews playoff troubles were kind of easy to see coming from a mile away if you had eyes ngl

Funny enough, Matthews being a goalscoring centre back in 2017 made me have a strong feeling that he would be a mediocre playoff performer just like Stamkos.

 

[quackquackquack]

And produces less than Marner and the same as Matthews...

Also, cheats a lot to create offense.

Other than that, 100% correct.

the leafs have scored once in the last 2 games and you want to criticize someone for how they generate offense? nuts.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

There's a lot wrong with them. Except for Nylander, they fold like a cheap tent every year. Every one of them would be better off going to another team as a supporting character. They are not meant to lead.

 

[SenzZen]

core 5 with Reils the wonder D man

He does often make one wonder…

 

[drktmplr12]

Perfect example of a group being less than the sum of their parts

 

[Mrfenn92]

Fair or unfair but if you want to change the perception then you have to win these games and series

 

[NVious]

One thing nobody talks about when it comes to Matthews/Marner is how they've gained 0 muscle in their NHL days (or next to it).

Mitch was listed as 5'11 160 on his draft day and he is currently listed as 6' 170 basically no weight change, then:

Now:

Auston was listed at 6'2 216 and is now listed at 6'3 217 (lol), then:

Now:

Meanwhile Nylander was listed at 5'11 170 and today sits at 6' 200 (prolly why his play doesn't change in the playoffs), an underrated reason why they struggle so much in the playoffs, the best players generally add 20+lbs of lean mass over their NHL years (Sid+Nate being too good examples of that) to avoid being pushed around

 

[Dread Clawz]

And produces less than Marner and the same as Matthews...

Also, cheats a lot to create offense.

Other than that, 100% correct.

Nylander 11gp 15 pts
Marner 11 GP 12 pts
Matthews 11GP 10 pts

 

[tnnr]

The problem is, outside of Nylander, they have no heart and do not seem to give a shit.

You're in the lockeroom? you've seen this first hand that they don't have heart or give a shit?

 

[SharksFan1992]

Nylander 11gp 15 pts
Marner 11 GP 12 pts
Matthews 11GP 10 pts

Matthews earns $13 million to score goals. He has a whopping 3 all playoffs. The NHL needs to scrap the 2nd assist. It undeservedly pads players' stat sheets

 

[SharksFan1992]

You're in the lockeroom? you've seen this first hand that they don't have heart or give a shit?

You've been in the locker room to prove him wrong?

 

[pdavemoney]

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.

Matthews 82 game averages
Regular season 52g 42a 94pts
Playoffs 32g 40a 72pts

Marner 82 game averages
Regular season 28g 65a 92pts
Playoffs 15g 59a 75pts

Auston Matthews would have a career 245 goals compared to his ACTUAL 401 if he scored at his playoff rate. This is a SIGNIFICANT drop-off.

 

[Ole Gil]

The biggest issue for the Leafs, is they're usually playing some perennial cup contending team like Boston or Tampa Bay. Yeah, prime Hedman/Vasilesky will cut down on your production a bit. Tuuka/Bergeron aren't good for the point per game output. Bobrovsky/Barkov will slow you down a bit.

And if they win this series, next up is Carolina. Another defensive powerhouse.

 

[Dread Clawz]

The biggest issue for the Leafs, is they're usually playing some perennial cup contending team like Boston or Tampa Bay. Yeah, prime Hedman/Vasilesky will cut down on your production a bit. Tuuka/Bergeron aren't good for the point per game output. Bobrovsky/Barkov will slow you down a bit.

And if they win this series, next up is Carolina. Another defensive powerhouse.

Yeah, winning a Cup is hard.

 

[paragon]

The biggest issue for the Leafs, is they're usually playing some perennial cup contending team like Boston or Tampa Bay. Yeah, prime Hedman/Vasilesky will cut down on your production a bit. Tuuka/Bergeron aren't good for the point per game output. Bobrovsky/Barkov will slow you down a bit.

And if they win this series, next up is Carolina. Another defensive powerhouse.

It's like the opposite of Oilers where McDavid and Draisaitl get to feast every year in a free 1st round match-up against the Kings. Maybe the Oilers duo wouldn't elevate their game so much in the playoffs if they had to play prime Tampa or Florida every year in the first round.

 

[3blizzard4]

I hope this thread ages like fine wine and not like the bananas I forgot to refrigerate three weeks ago still sitting on my counter.

 

[notbias]

Nylander 11gp 15 pts
Marner 11 GP 12 pts
Matthews 11GP 10 pts

Craziest thing... they have played more than a single playoff.

 

[Strangle]

One other major problem is that all of the core 4 players play a game that is similar to one another, that is to say they are all offensive first players. None of them are physical power forwards (ie Ovechkin) none of them are rats/agitators (ie Marchand), none of them are a shutdown forward/two way stud (ie on the level of someone like Bergeron/Kopitar/Barkov), none of them are a true net front presence (ie Perry), you get the point.

They all play too similar of a game.

Matthews is a shut down forward/two way stud

People don’t know this because they don’t watch the maple leafs play (they just complain about them) and because they’ve never heard of a 70 goal scoring shutdown forward, 200ft player.

Matthews was supposed to be Anze Kopitar, but he matured into an Ovechkin+Barkov.

Also, yes … Tavares is a true net front presence IE Perry. He’s just maintained his level of production MUCH better than Perry has in his later career.

Marner is also a fantastic two-way shutdown forward, who runs the powerplay and can play defense IE Fedorov. How many of those exist in the NHL? Can you name another one now that I’ve named Federov?

Honestly, there just aren’t any comparables to many of Toronto’s core 4. There aren’t many (or any) players who really match up to what they actually bring to the ice.

I think if you wanted to question their killer instinct, or their heart I’m with you all day long. But it’s obvious you don’t watch this team play.

 

[shaner8989]

They really are not as bad as people say. It’s the media that is complete trash.

Win tomorrow would go along way for them

 

[Golden_Jet]

Biggest issue with M&M is their compete level.