The team that tanked the most aggressively got Bedard.

[WarriorofTime]

I'll break it down for you I guess. Most people's point is that the league fined AZ a 1st and 2nd for having prospects put on some shorts and do some extra jumping jacks for them before the draft.

Meanwhile, Chicago does everything in it's power to sweep a rapist video coach under the rug, *then* recommended that same video coach to another athletics program where he'd have access to even younger kids, did absolutely nothing about the assaulted player getting heckled in practice and called "gay" as a result of the assault, and only did "the right thing" by firing the coach and GM because the player himself and a journalist outted them for everything in the media. Then you have their gem of an owner who was there for the whole thing come out last year and tell everyone to "get over it."

And through all of that, the league felt no need to penalize them draft capital, and then allowed them to win the biggest lottery in an decade.

I'll break it down for you. Arizona cheated in a hockey sense, and got a hockey punishment. People in Chicago committed a non-hockey related offense and they got in trouble in their individual fashion.

This is easy stuff. You don't see Ottawa getting their picks taken away what for Alex Formenton did, so Chicago doesn't get their picks taken away for what Brad Aldrich did.

 

[Guttersniped]

All teams should be entered in the lottery and given equal chances. Hire an air tight 3rd party to run the lottery and make it as fully transparent as possible. The end

And that’s a terrible idea. Bad teams need a way to get the talent they need to get better.

There’s a 3rd party involved. This the video of Bettman doing the drawing, if you think that’s faked no one can help you with that. You’re just unhappy with the results not the methods. (And if you’re unhappy with ESPN’s sloppy presentation grow up. They’re sloppy, take it up with ESPN.)

It’s as transparent as it needs to be, what do you want, to personally attend? A government investigation?



This is just a sports league pal, a private entertainment company, this isn’t some massive crisis.

The only gripe in this thread that holds water is people saying Hawks’ 2023 pick should have been gone in a penalty. That’s debatable but it’s possible.

Imagining the draft functioning completely different than it does now isn’t realistic. There’s a reason it’s the way it is, similar in all sports leagues. There’s no logical argument for your suggestion, I don’t see how that makes anything work better.

And you would just bitch when a team you don’t like won.

 

[Guttersniped]

I'll break it down for you. Arizona cheated in a hockey sense, and got a hockey punishment. People in Chicago committed a non-hockey related offense and they got in trouble in their individual fashion.

This is easy stuff. You don't see Ottawa getting their picks taken away what for Alex Formenton did, so Chicago doesn't get their picks taken away for what Brad Aldrich did.

The NHL punished the Blackhawks for this with a 2m fine, but they just fined them without taking any picks away.

Fans don’t care about the team’s money so big fines don’t mean as much as a 1st Round pick so in retrospect that was probably a mistake.

If this was worthy of a 2m fine then taking away a 1st was definitely in the conversation too.

With Arizona, they took picks away but actually cut them a break with fines because of their financial situation, and also their new owner had just come on right before COVID.

The club could had technically been individually fined for every single prospect they tested and there were ~20 kids. It would have been a sizable amount, since the fine is “no less than $250k”.

[…]

Blackhawks fined $2 million by NHL | NHL.com

Penalized for inadequate procedures, mishandling of matter related to former video coach

www.nhl.com

Coyotes forfeit two picks for combine violations

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman stripped the Coyotes of two draft picks, including a first-rounder in 2021, for violating the league's combine testing policy.

www.espn.com

 

[WarriorofTime]

Fans may not care about fines that large but owners do.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

I'll break it down for you I guess. Most people's point is that the league fined AZ a 1st and 2nd for having prospects put on some shorts and do some extra jumping jacks for them before the draft. So they're clearly not averse to this type of penalty.

Meanwhile, Chicago did everything in it's power to sweep a rapist video coach under the rug, *then* recommended that same video coach to another athletics program where he'd have access to even younger kids, *then* did absolutely nothing about the assaulted player getting heckled in practice and called "gay" as a result of the assault, and only did "the right thing" by firing the coach and GM because the player himself and a journalist outted them for everything in the media. *Then* you have their gem of an owner who was there for the whole thing come out last year and tell everyone to "get over it."

And through all of that, the league felt no need to penalize them draft capital, and then allowed them to win the biggest lottery in an decade.

yeah regarding Arizona, wouldn't "the Club acknowledged that it had violated the Policy by conducting physical testing on 2020 draft-eligible players prior to the Combine" be a form of tampering?

Meaning, there's a direct correlation between the crime and the penalty

but if Patrick O'Sullivan was abused in the shadows, why should an NHL team forfeit a draft pick??

Shouldn't we charge the men involved instead? How is this a franchise issue rather than a group of people that enabled this?

They should be punished, of course, just like in anything else. There needs to be some kind of a correlation to the crime however.

Imagine, there's a murderer on trial and the judge/jury decides that the man's family should never again bare a child as a punishment? It's extremely odd.

So again... can you please explain why rape = something so minimal as a punishment like forfeiting a 1st rd pick? Yes you heard right, your form of justice does nothing for Beach and his family. Forfeiting a pick does nothing to the Hawks' bottom line. You are punishing the fans.

Why aren't activists pushing for proper punishment rather than something this stupid and unrelated?

Also, why not take it further? All fans of the Hawks should pay an extra $20 per ticket sale and have that donated to a charity against sexual abuse. I mean, this could literally be the same type of none-sense punishment.


Reason and Logic wins over emotion and irrationality.

Always.

 

[Naslundforever]

So what is the league going to do next year when 10 teams are competing to see how badly they can trash their rosters for 3/4 of the season ? There will still be a couple delusional management teams next year who wont tank. But still. Clearly tanking works. The harder the tank the better.

This idea that the lottery is preventing tanking is ridiculous.

It is horrible. Lost interest half the teams before the hollidays. Watching a freaking draw from a hat to congratulate teams gutting themselves for a chance at generational players Is the most anti-sport thing I can imagine. Nhl should be accountable for putting on a show every night for ticket holders, PERIOD.

 

[ChiHawks10]

All teams should be entered in the lottery and given equal chances. Hire an air tight 3rd party to run the lottery and make it as fully transparent as possible. The end

An air tight 3rd party already runs the lottery, and a video of it being done is posted every year.

yeah regarding Arizona, wouldn't "the Club acknowledged that it had violated the Policy by conducting physical testing on 2020 draft-eligible players prior to the Combine" be a form of tampering?

Meaning, there's a direct correlation between the crime and the penalty

but if Patrick O'Sullivan was abused in the shadows, why should an NHL team forfeit a draft pick??

Shouldn't we charge the men involved instead? How is this a franchise issue rather than a group of people that enabled this?

They should be punished, of course, just like in anything else. There needs to be some kind of a correlation to the crime however.

Imagine, there's a murderer on trial and the judge/jury decides that the man's family should never again bare a child as a punishment? It's extremely odd.

So again... can you please explain why rape = something so minimal as a punishment like forfeiting a 1st rd pick? Yes you heard right, your form of justice does nothing for Beach and his family. Forfeiting a pick does nothing to the Hawks' bottom line. You are punishing the fans.

Why aren't activists pushing for proper punishment rather than something this stupid and unrelated?

Also, why not take it further? All fans of the Hawks should pay an extra $20 per ticket sale and have that donated to a charity against sexual abuse. I mean, this could literally be the same type of none-sense punishment.

I promise you, you equity folk really don't understand how life works. It's sad but eh, you guys exist and we need to deal with you, unfortunately.

Reason and Logic wins over emotion and irrationality.

Always.

That post also consists almost entirely of misinformation and flat out lies, just so you're aware. If you want to read about the entire thing based upon the report filed after an investigation by an extremely reputable and prestigious law firm, you can go here.

This will give you everything you want to know. I've typed it all way too much to type it all again.

https://www.jenner.com/a/web/8kmbgFUEYWcNnvzFTa5h8H/4HRMZQ/Report%2520to%2520the%2520Chicago%2520Blackhawks%2520Hockey%2520Team%2520-%2520October%25202021.pdf

 

[ChiHawks10]

And that’s a terrible idea. Bad teams need a way to get the talent they need to get better.

There’s a 3rd party involved. This the video of Bettman doing the drawing, if you think that’s faked no one can help you with that. You’re just unhappy with the results not the methods. (And if you’re unhappy with ESPN’s sloppy presentation grow up. They’re sloppy, take it up with ESPN.)

It’s as transparent as it needs to be, what do you want, to personally attend? A government investigation?



This is just a sports league pal, a private entertainment company, this isn’t some massive crisis.

The only gripe in this thread that holds water is people saying Hawks’ 2023 pick should have been gone in a penalty. That’s debatable but it’s possible.

Imagining the draft functioning completely different than it does now isn’t realistic. There’s a reason it’s the way it is, similar in all sports leagues. There’s no logical argument for your suggestion, I don’t see how that makes anything work better.

And you would just bitch when a team you don’t like won.

It actually would have been the 2022 1st rounder since this was all made public in 2020/2021, so in all reality, this year's pick is irrelevant.

 

[Viqsi]

Because cheating in the sport, gets you punishment in the sport. Doing what they did isn’t about draft picks. It’s about a lifetime ban.

Also I just think it’s ridiculous that it’s brought up now and it’s partly because people hate the Hawks for their recent success and think they didn’t suck long enough so they bring up other stuff from the past.

I also don’t associate the actions of individuals with the organization as a whole. I don’t think the Capitals are a bad organization because they employ someone who directly supports a global mass murderer.

Ovechkin does not run anything about the Caps, snarky hot takes to the contrary. I don't care for his bullshit either, but that's a disingenuous comparison to make.

* * *​

Pens are looking into Bowman and I forget who for Q. Utterly ridiculous and unbelievable. And anyhow, Bowman is a train wreck GM regardless of the what he oversaw. He will sell the future to keep his job…..as Hawks fans are well aware of and living through. Any org considering him is obviously a gong show now and it will be a clown car when Bowman further ruins them.

I understood it to be the Flames looking at Bowman and the Rangers who were ostensibly looking at Quenneville. I think the latter has since been retracted tho.

* * *​

Hockey has a cocaine-fueled, alcohol bender, toxic culture infused into it. Most know this. Yet the Hawks get singled out, while all these other things just get brushed aside? Bullshit. People are mad that the Hawks have a good chance to be relevant again, and be a contender in a few years. Period. As I said earlier, this is just a convenient excuse for people to scream and piss and moan about the Hawks landing a generational player after their recent success.

The Hawks aren't being singled out in general. There's just focus on their malfeasance right now because they just got the reward of a lifetime before sufficient time has passed for the wounds to heal.

 

[Viqsi]

The hawks always move up in the lottery against all massive odds. The league knows if they don’t put a winning team in Chicago the fickle know nothing fans there won’t buy 1500 seats a game.

Um. Okay, yeah, I'm pissed too that Chicago's getting that kind of reward also, but this is so thoroughly provably false as to be absurd and ridiculous. It's just probablity not giving a flying f*** about karma or decency because those weren't built into the numbers when they were determined.

 

[Guttersniped]

Fans may not care about fines that large but owners do.

They also paid for the investigation and also has to (rightfully because they were awful) pay Kyle Beach something so there was even more money involved.

Guys not getting to work in the NHL is also a message, so Bowman and Quenneville not coming back anytime soon also works as a deterrent.

But taking away picks is a great equalizer with punishments since some teams can handle fines easier than others.

And what fans care about matters here too and picks are a great equalizer in punishments. Some teams can handle fines better than others.

Plus the NHL’s stance is built on all supposed positive change the Hawks made in light of the reports findings and then Rocky Wirtz pissed all over that narrative by publicly being a self-pitying man baby.

The NHL probably just didn’t think this through in October 2021, but that’s how they generally roll, so I’m not surprised. It is what it is.

“I think the league should have taken picks too.” is a legit argument even if you disagree.

The kitchen sinks that are also being thrown at the Hawks in this thread and elsewhere… are not good.

Bad teams have existed before, and will exist again, and randomness is random.

They used to show the bingo balls more, with way more complicated procedures, and % of people still complained it was fixed because they didn’t like the results. It’s not worth it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

And what fans care about matters here too and picks are a great equalizer in punishments. Some teams can handle fines better than others.

Fans have no privity here.

 

[Guttersniped]

It actually would have been the 2022 1st rounder since this was all made public in 2020/2021, so in all reality, this year's pick is irrelevant.

The report and fine was in October 2021, so Chicago’s 2022 1st was already moved in the Seth Jones trade in July 2021.

The Coyotes lost their 2020 2nd Rd & 2021 1st Rd pick in August 2020 because they already traded their 2020 1st in the Taylor Hall trade.

 

[TLEH]

Ovechkin does not run anything about the Caps, snarky hot takes to the contrary. I don't care for his bullshit either, but that's a disingenuous comparison to make.

Not sure how supporting a mass murderer and being the face of a franchise is disingenuous. Ovi is the Caps. Im not a fan of whataboutisms in general, and its not the same, but my point is that it doesn't make Caps fans bad for cheering for the Caps even though he is their player. Just as though Hawks fans don't need to hear about how guys that don't work at the org anymore are assholes. Yeah no shit, we of all people know that.

 

[Guttersniped]

Fans have no privity here.

The teams make the rules since it’s their league, along with what is negotiated with the NHLPA, but they do care about their customers.There’s such a thing as pubic perception.

MLB brought down everything it could on the Astros because having fans associate the World Series with cheating is damaging to their business. Fans care a ton about picks, even a 5m fine probably didn’t sound like much to many.

And 1m of the Hawk’s 2m fine was donated to local Chicago organizations involved with survivors of sexual abuse. Do you think that was just about their own conscience? Them getting right with God?

The reason all the bellyaching about the lottery is different is because people always complain about the results and “fixed” stuff is goofy nonsense. The NHL rule changes are far from perfect but most suggestions are worse.

 

[Brookbank]

It actually would have been the 2022 1st rounder since this was all made public in 2020/2021, so in all reality, this year's pick is irrelevant.

Usually bad things happen to teams that get too arrogant. So keep at it. If something goes sideways, we will all gather around the fire.

 

[Magicman]

I have a friend who works for an NBA franchise. He once heard an owner wanting to sue because he claimed it was rigged, some of the ping pong balls had helium so they would bounce higher and others were painted with heavy lead paint to keep them down.

The issue is not the NHL it's the owners. They are never going to agree to a lottery system that may come back and bite them.

The reason this lottery is a big issue is because, IMHO, it seems so slimy that a team embroiled in scandal wins the lottery after tanking to get what appears to be a generational player to help drive ratings in year 2 of the TV contract in the US that was trending down by around 20%.

Thus keeping said player in the limelight of a popular team in the Central Time zone, and away from Canada, 3 West Coast teams and a team nobody watches, Columbus.

For some it fit too perfectly for Bettman and the NHL's US TV market.

 

[Terry Yake]

the funny thing is that literally everyone knew chicago was going to win it right from the start

 

[HuskyBruinPride]

So it's definitely disappointing Chicago got the pick from the perspective of the Beach scandal. But purely from a hockey perspective, to me it's exciting to see Bedard end up with an original 6 team like Chicago over a team like Anaheim/Arizona/SJ etc.

 

[Viqsi]

the funny thing is that literally everyone knew chicago was going to win it right from the start

Sometimes randomness aligns with cynicism.

 

[monkforasia]

I have a friend who works for an NBA franchise. He once heard an owner wanting to sue because he claimed it was rigged, some of the ping pong balls had helium so they would bounce higher and others were painted with heavy lead paint to keep them down.

The issue is not the NHL it's the owners. They are never going to agree to a lottery system that may come back and bite them.

The reason this lottery is a big issue is because, IMHO, it seems so slimy that a team embroiled in scandal wins the lottery after tanking to get what appears to be a generational player to help drive ratings in year 2 of the TV contract in the US that was trending down by around 20%.

Thus keeping said player in the limelight of a popular team in the Central Time zone, and away from Canada, 3 West Coast teams and a team nobody watches, Columbus.

For some it fit too perfectly for Bettman and the NHL's US TV market.

U do know they used the same ping balls for the 2nd overall selection... If the balls were rigged why didn't the same numbers come out?

 

[Brookbank]

So it's definitely disappointing Chicago got the pick from the perspective of the Beach scandal. But purely from a hockey perspective, to me it's exciting to see Bedard end up with an original 6 team like Chicago over a team like Anaheim/Arizona/SJ etc.

Some fans couldn't care less about this romancing of the "original 6". And I am one of them. A team like San Jose has existed for over 30 years. And you are throwing them in with Arizona just because they don't have "original 6" street cred ?

 

[Viqsi]

U do know they used the same ping balls for the 2nd overall selection... If the balls were rigged why didn't the same numbers come out?

They were unrigged as part of pulling them out the first time so that the second drawing could be random. WAKE UP SHEEPLE



(I swear if I see this repeated by someone else later as tho it's a legit counterargument I will set the world on fire as there will clearly be nothing left of value to save)

 

[HuskyBruinPride]

Some fans couldn't care less about this romancing of the "original 6". And I am one of them. A team like San Jose has existed for over 30 years. And you are throwing them in with Arizona just because they don't have "original 6" street cred ?

I'm just more interested to see Bedard in a big market personally. But as for Arizona, wouldn't want to see him go that train wreck. Although would have been interesting to see how that played out I suppose...would it save hockey in the desert or just fuel further relocation talks.

 

[sxvnert]

Good for them. I appreciate industrial level tanking. Hopefully they'll keep it going for another year or two.