The "Team" Is Broken

[Gabriel426]

My view of the team hasn't really changed since we were bounced; Domi, Bertuzzi, Klingberg and Reeves notwithstanding. While I have nothing but admiration for the skills our top players have, especially as a group, I no longer have confidence in their abilities to produce in the playoffs. When Morgan Rielly is your toughest, most physically engaged player out of your top 5 - kudos Morgan - you're going to have difficulties moving past teams that are playing a more physically challenging style of game. The time to address this has passed. I would guess we're going to see a successful regular season next year, we have talent that few teams have. I'm less confident that we will see anything different come the playoffs, unless we see some exceptional goaltending.

Like everyone else, I'll be watching come the fall (after all, I'm a fan of the Leafs, what a curse) but for the first time in 6 years, it won't be with the anticipation that this team can go all the way.

Can exceptional goaltending bring us closer to a Cup? Maybe a round or two, but if AM, MM and JT combined for 1 goal in 5 games, don't think we can win a lot of playoffs games.

 

[Nineteen67]

Don't be childish
If you actually don't think leafs are contenders than you're just delusional

BS! They’ve never had the goaltending or the D or the forwards or the coaching to contend for the Cup.

 

[Hellcat]

My comment has about paying, and why anyone would want to pay only to be censored.

Right, which that opinion clearly has nothing to do with the thread, obviously you don't have a clue what the discussion was about, start at the first post then read your way back, I don't have time for people who form lazy uneducated opinions.

 

[Hellcat]

Don't be childish
If you actually don't think leafs are contenders than you're just delusional

Based on performance, is it fair to say they are contenders for the Presidents Trophy but not contenders for the Stanley Cup, based solely on results?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Exhibit B: The quality of free agents Treliving was able to attract this summer. Word is out that this isn't a highly desirable destination any longer. While it's wonderful that BT recognized that none of Klingberg, Domi nor Bertuzzi are the type of player you lock in over the long term, it's troubling that these were the type of players BT had to resort to this summer. Upon sober reflection, that trio are simply the best of the free agency leftovers from a weak free agency year. They are the ones worth taking a one year flyer on.

Bertuzzi was arguably the best free agent available, certainly the best free agent forward available.

The fact that BT got it done instantly kills the idea that Toronto is not a desireable location

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Based on performance, is it fair to say they are contenders for the Presidents Trophy but not contenders for the Stanley Cup, based solely on results?

No, if you are going by logic there would be 31 teams not contenders for the Stanley Cup.

The reality is there are probably about 10 real contenders this year.

If you believe they are contenders for the presidents trophy and it appears you do.

Then they are by default contenders for the Stanley Cup, you can't be contenders for one and not the other.

It's impossible.

 

[Gary Nylund]

My view of the team hasn't really changed since we were bounced; Domi, Bertuzzi, Klingberg and Reeves notwithstanding. While I have nothing but admiration for the skills our top players have, especially as a group, I no longer have confidence in their abilities to produce in the playoffs. When Morgan Rielly is your toughest, most physically engaged player out of your top 5 - kudos Morgan - you're going to have difficulties moving past teams that are playing a more physically challenging style of game. The time to address this has passed. I would guess we're going to see a successful regular season next year, we have talent that few teams have. I'm less confident that we will see anything different come the playoffs, unless we see some exceptional goaltending.

Like everyone else, I'll be watching come the fall (after all, I'm a fan of the Leafs, what a curse) but for the first time in 6 years, it won't be with the anticipation that this team can go all the way.

I think you expressed the way I feel perfectly. Sure I'll watch, but for the first time in 6 years I have zero optimism about their cup chances because they've exited the playoffs by mailing it in one too many times for me to believe in them any more. This team has an enviable collection of talent, but the compete level just isn't there. Sad stuff.

Based on performance, is it fair to say they are contenders for the Presidents Trophy but not contenders for the Stanley Cup, based solely on results?

I don't see this team winning either but to say they're not contenders though may be too harsh. Contender is a nebulous term so I guess it depends on how you define it. Did you think Florida was a contender last summer? What about before they started playing in the finals, were they a contender then? Can a team that isn't a contender win the cup?

I get where you're coming from though, I would say this team has a better shot at the Presidents trophy than the cup, much better.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think you expressed the way I feel perfectly. Sure I'll watch, but for the first time in 6 years I have zero optimism about their cup chances because they've exited the playoffs by mailing it in one too many times for me to believe in them any more. This team has an enviable collection of talent, but the compete level just isn't there. Sad stuff.


I don't see this team winning either but to say they're not contenders though may be too harsh. Contender is a nebulous term so I guess it depends on how you define it. Did you think Florida was a contender last summer? What about before they started playing in the finals, were they a contender then? Can a team that isn't a contender win the cup?

I get where you're coming from though, I would say this team has a better shot at the Presidents trophy than the cup, much better.

I predicted Florida was going to struggle to make the playoffs, but they are built to play playoff hockey.

For the first year with this core I predicted they would win one round and that would buy them enough time to build properly.
I didn’t predict they’d get mauled like they did in 8 of 11 playoff games like they did this year.

They might be set at 1st line, but other than that it’s iffy up and down the lineup. I do like them giving auditions to Domi and Bertuzzi and maybe they can do the same with some D.

 

[Notsince67]

I predicted Florida was going to struggle to make the playoffs, but they are built to play playoff hockey.

For the first year with this core I predicted they would win one round and that would buy them enough time to build properly.
I didn’t predict they’d get mauled like they did in 8 of 11 playoff games like they did this year.

They might be set at 1st line, but other than that it’s iffy up and down the lineup. I do like them giving auditions to Domi and Bertuzzi and maybe they can do the same with some D.

Bertuzzi just got married. He's going into next season with half a sack.

 

[Hellcat]

No, if you are going by logic there would be 31 teams not contenders for the Stanley Cup.

The reality is there are probably about 10 real contenders this year.

If you believe they are contenders for the presidents trophy and it appears you do.

Then they are by default contenders for the Stanley Cup, you can't be contenders for one and not the other.

It's impossible.

If you are a team that competes well in the regular season but does not compete well in the playoffs does that change the calculus for who is a Cup contender?

 

[Gabriel426]

If you are a team that competes well in the regular season but does not compete well in the playoffs does that change the calculus for who is a Cup contender?

Well, to me, there are really only a few contenders each season. Then the teams between contenders and playoffs teams are often being label as contenders too.

I don’t think the Leafs is a contender mainly bc the core playoffs history.

Having said that, just bc any teams not being label contenders in the summer doesn’t mean they won’t be contenders come TDL or at the 79th game of the season. And even if the team is a contender comes playoffs, doesn’t mean they will win the Cup.
At the end of the day, does it really matters if the Leafs is views as Contenders or not at any point in the season?

 

[notbias]

If you are a team that competes well in the regular season but does not compete well in the playoffs does that change the calculus for who is a Cup contender?

That was Florida until last year, or Colorado every year minus one, or Washington every year minus one.

It is almost like there is no formula for success and the playoffs are not a perfect science.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If you are a team that competes well in the regular season but does not compete well in the playoffs does that change the calculus for who is a Cup contender?

No, wheb you are are a consistent top 10 team you are a contender.

Again if you believe they are contenders for the president trophy, and by your own admission you do, you must believe they are contenders for the Stanley Cup because again you can't be contenders for one and not the other.

 

[notDatsyuk]

No, wheb you are are a consistent top 10 team you are a contender.

Again if you believe they are contenders for the president trophy, and by your own admission you do, you must believe they are contenders for the Stanley Cup because again you can't be contenders for one and not the other.

It very much depends on how you define 'contender', but yes, I think you can very easily be a President's Trophy contender without being a Cup contender, and vice versa.

It's pretty clear they have been a top 10 regular season team for several years, but just as clear that they have NOT been a top 10 playoff team in that time.

 

[Nineteen67]

No, wheb you are are a consistent top 10 team you are a contender.

Again if you believe they are contenders for the president trophy, and by your own admission you do, you must believe they are contenders for the Stanley Cup because again you can't be contenders for one and not the other.

No. There are certain ingredients needed to succeed in the playoffs.
Their D has been far too slow and weak to win 4 rounds
Their forwards are also slow and not very aggressive, especially the core players.

Th Leafs don’t excel in any area that’s needed to win 3 or 4 rounds.

 

[Its not your fault]

Yup, and that is so wrong. It should be the other way around!

So get bad players for your team?

 

[Antropovsky]

It is concerning that we keep bringing in veterans to be the silent leaders to this team despite having three 11 million dollar guys. Spezza, Thornton, Simmonds, Oreilly and Reaves. We have 4 guys with a letter and none are ideal leaders according to Keefe and now Treliving.

We also cycle an A... Why? Because we are afraid of hurt feelings?

 

[cannucky]

All kinds of people are flagged, just because a few people don't get flagged is not proof positive that there is a different standard on the Leafs forum. Do you realize how many thousands upon thousands of post there are every day? Hell I've been on the Sens forums and stated that one day they will get a NHL team, I said they were a non tradionial hockey market, I've called the Habs toilet seats, no warning or a ban from those comments ... Absence of perfection in executing forum policy is not confirmation of bias, it's a confirmation that its hard to police every single post. If you or others want better policing, pay for the service, allow HF to pay their mods.

The lack of comprehension comes from people who expect a free service to execute their policy flawlessly while using volunteers as police, when you have different Mods govern different Forums, aka humans making interpretations of that policy and applying them to real world situations, there is inevitably going to be varying degrees of interpretation of said policy and how to apply enforcement of said policy. The mod in the Buffalo forum may not interpret the rules the way the mods in the Leafs forum do. The lack of comprehension is not on my part, its on the part of the people who fail to understand the massive logistical challenges that come with governing a large free service forum. Put your money where your mouth is, become a sponsor and pay HF.

This , as someone who has picked up points in multiple threads I can tell you the common thread tends to be disagreeing with a mod or his toady , no matter how mildly worded if you are right and they are very very wrong you will be punished and your post removed . If you are agreeing with them you can pretty much say whatever you want and that's the price of entry into a free forum .

 

[Captain Crunch]

So get bad players for your team?

So you’re saying the core should be surrounded by players that can carry them, instead of the other way around? smh

 

[Its not your fault]

So you’re saying the core should be surrounded by players that can carry them, instead of the other way around? smh

A player that can carry someone is probably a better player then one that can't. The cores the same regardless in this equation so. I'll take the better players over the lesser players. Seems simple.

 

[Captain Crunch]

A player that can carry someone is probably a better player then one that can't. The cores the same regardless in this equation so. I'll take the better players over the lesser players. Seems simple.

That’s fine, but my bet is as long as this core continues their no shows in series deciding games, nothing will change. It will not matter who you surround them with. I just don’t think this core will ever become the leaders that every team needs their stars to be. MAYBE they will FINALLY prove me wrong?

 

[HockeyVirus]

Do I believe in this team anymore? No I don't. I acknowledge they have the talent to win if all the moons and stars aligned but I think it is unlikely.

Am I still excited for the season and will watch every game? Absolutely. This team is still very good in the regular season and it is fun to watch them dominate teams there. I also have found a lot of joy in following other random teams each season who have story lines I find interesting.

If you hate the team and have no interest in next season starting, why bother? Life is short, go do something you enjoy.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I wonder if Holl feels the same way about Matthews as Ray does Housley?

"I detest Phil Housley. I still hate him... I played with Phil Housley and he treated me like (crap)... He's someone, to this day, I still hate. He showed you no respect and pretended that he was "the man'."
(Rob Ray)

I wonder how Sabourin felt when he was here?

This is what happens when a team is broken. An inevitable consequence of Studs'n'Duds. A philosophy as divisive as it's name suggests.

Really makes you want to go through a brick wall for someone like that doesn't it?

It was supposed to be different this time. The team turned it around. After the last core group of losers brought a rock star attitude to the rink every night.

THIS is turning it around?

Babcock fired.
A DJ at practice.
Dress casual on game nights.

What Matthews wants, Matthews gets.

From one sense of entitlement to another. Low expectations from a low starting point. Ironically, the locker room matches how I feel about this team right now.

Broken.

 

[Captain Crunch]

We need to face facts. This team has been broken since Dumbass, Shan with no plan, and ownership gave our two prima donnas what they wanted on their last contracts. And it’s certainly appearing that it will be more of the same with their next contracts. To me, trading Nylander will not change what has to be going on in that dressing room. When have Matthews or Marner ever put the blame squarely on their shoulders after a loss, either in the regular season or especially in the playoffs? How many times have we seen Keefe tearing a strip off of Nylander on the bench (and probably rightly so), but he’s never done it to the two “chosen ones”? And the one time Keefe did call them out, he had to take it back the very next day!

Shanahan has allowed the focus to be on the names on the back of the sweaters, rather than on the crest on the front. Unless he finally grows some balls and takes a stand on giving in to these contract demands, nothing will change! And all signs are pointing to things remaining the same (he was ready to bring Dubas back, assured the core they would be coming back).

If Shanahan has any hopes of righting this ship, he not only needs to take a stand on Nylander (which he has), but also on Marner. It seems to he has given in to Matthews. Time will tell.

 

[MSZ]