The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[The Real Timo]

How much better do you think the team would be if they brought in another coach? Which coach and why them?

They might not win a ton more but they would compete. And answered that many times - don't know who as I am not paid 5M+ to keep taps on who's available that parler francais. My hope is that even since last season Hughes would have built a list of St Louis potential replacements and have them on speed dial for when needed. Now is needed.

 

[dcyhabs]

They shouldn’t be salivating at anything. Hughes can just finish low and get a top pick. He’s not under pressure to do anything.

Matheson can help tons of teams. Hes relatively cheap and his deal is coming up soon. He’s a great asset. Young guys like Barron (who I’d hate to part with) would fetch a nice return as well.

Hughes isn’t trading useless old guys. I’m not talking about Dvorak. I’m talking about Matheson, picks, prospects. Dvorak can’t be given away.

They are salivating because of fans like the ones here, and because of the media narrative, especially in Toronto, that says Hughes is desperate to trade anyone to get some wins short term. The narrative is wrong, but Montreal GMs, notably Bergevin and Houle, have gone with them before, so it gets play until Hughes kills it. Friedman is an idiot, but his expression, that other teams offer anvils not life preservers when your team is underwater, applies here.

Matheson has value, but I'd be surprised to get a good right D back for him. Maybe an old guy we need to teach the young guys, but then the D corps would be even more overmatched, and it would be tough to get the lessons through. Playing Matheson 25 minutes a night isn't good, but there are lots of worse options.

If he can get a good deal for Matheson that's fine. I suspect Matheson wants to stay and Hughes wants to make Montreal attractive to free agents, so he may not be in the best position to get value, but good for him if he gets there. The picks and prospects worry me, though. No issue trading picks in the third round or later, but the habs are still looking for top guys. They might be able to trade for some top guys, but that depends on other teams making bad moves. Hoping for bad moves implies trading with dumb teams, losing teams that aren't interested in Matheson. Once the team is good you can plug in OK players, pump their value, and trade them to dumb teams for prospects you like that they undervalue. The habs are several years away from that. If they can get a blocked, undervalued prospect from a good team that would be great, but good teams tend not to undervalue assets.

Trying to make a fairly even trade is a common way to get suckered.

Edit: I didn't mean Hughes was trying to literally trade his useless guys for useful guys, that would take a Houle/Bergevin level sucker on the other end. He's trying to remove some guys, probably for nothing, and acquire some guys he will probably have to overpay for.

 

[dcyhabs]

They might not win a ton more but they would compete. And answered that many times - don't know who as I am not paid 5M+ to keep taps on who's available that parler francais. My hope is that even since last season Hughes would have built a list of St Louis potential replacements and have them on speed dial for when needed. Now is needed.

Considering the number of francophone coaches who are good and have not already coached in Montreal I expect Hughes can contact them all on his coffee break. If they are going to hire only francophone coaches they have to develop coaches. I guess Vincent is in the pipeline, but the habs should start a group purely to groom coaches.

 

[Mrb1p]

Completely ridiculous take.

Do you trade Malkin because you have Crosby? I'm not comparing players here, but you stack players to get better, rather than holding absolutist dichotomies where it's either one or the other.

Also, Suzuki was drafted 7 years ago, not 8.

Crosby and Malkin are 11 months apart in age.

Lol.

 

[The Real Timo]

Considering the number of francophone coaches who are good and have not already coached in Montreal I expect Hughes can contact them all on his coffee break. If they are going to hire only francophone coaches they have to develop coaches. I guess Vincent is in the pipeline, but the habs should start a group purely to groom coaches.

Interesting thought... Stu Cowan was saying on marinaro's podcast yesterday that likely Vincent has been brought in a groomed as St Louis's replacement, just like Ducharme was brought in to become Julien's replacement. I hope the result will be better when it happens. But like many said, Vincent is doing a great job with Laval and team is playing winning hockey, so would be a shame to deprive them of a good coach.

We all joke about it, but everybody knows that Habs will not get within a sniff of playoffs, so really the only objective for the remainder of the season should be to establish a system that works for THIS group and have them play into it. Become more competitive and give players truly something to look forward to next season when Hughes presumably can bring in some help. (don't understnad why he can't do it know, but that's beside the point)

 

[Tabarouette]

Completely ridiculous take.

Do you trade Malkin because you have Crosby? I'm not comparing players here, but you stack players to get better, rather than holding absolutist dichotomies where it's either one or the other.

Also, Suzuki was drafted 7 years ago, not 8.

actually you keep Malkin because he was a HOF lock after 1 season

if we had a Malkin or a Crosby our rebuild thread would be much, much simpler

 

[Rapala]

It's looking like those of us that wanted to go after Martin Necas for our needs at Center weren't off the mark.
He's following up his great World's tournament with a fine start to this season leading Carolina.
I wonder what the magic number could have been on a long term to handcuff Carolina?

 

[le_sean]

It's looking like those of us that wanted to go after Martin Necas for our needs at Center weren't off the mark.
He's following up his great World's tournament with a fine start to this season leading Carolina.
I wonder what the magic number could have been on a long term to handcuff Carolina?

He’s not playing centre for the Canes but the point still stands. He’s proving to be an elite player. He would have provided much needed speed for this team.

 

[HabsCode]

I think you're kind of throwing shit at the wall and not looking at what those teams actually did. Including Florida, who were never really rebuilding.

Not a lot of teams went through the route we went to as it wasn't actually all that common to do so at the time.

Maybe a better rebuild blueprint for us is New Jersey. Like us, the lost of core vets like Brodeur and Elias hurted them (they we're already in a no man's land zone prior). They eventually bottomed out like us. Then they picked Hischier at 1OV in 2017 (comparable to us picking Slaf in 2022) and Jack Hughes at 1OV in 2019 (maybe Demidov is 2024 comp?). But it took them another 3 seasons before finally being back to contention (which aligns with the breakout of Hughes and Hischier).

 

[Tyson]

Where do we go from here? Primeau will probably start tomorrow so that's an automatic 5 goals against.
Minnesota never loses to the Habs...seems like never.
Can a coach survive an 8-10 game losing streak?

 

[HabsCode]

Where do we go from here? Primeau will probably start tomorrow so that's an automatic 5 goals against.
Minnesota never loses to the Habs...seems like never.
Can a coach survive an 8-10 game losing streak?

I present you Ed Olczyk who survived a 18 losses streak in 2003-2004

 

[Tyson]

I present you Ed Olczyk who survived a 18 losses streak in 2003-2004 for the Crosby derby show.

Wow I didn't know that

 

[HabsCode]

Wow I didn't know that

forget the crosby derby thing tho, I mixed 2004 and 2005

The 18L untouchable coach streak remains.

12 to go.

 

[Draft]

They might not win a ton more but they would compete. And answered that many times - don't know who as I am not paid 5M+ to keep taps on who's available that parler francais. My hope is that even since last season Hughes would have built a list of St Louis potential replacements and have them on speed dial for when needed. Now is needed.

If you don’t know who the new coach would be, why do you think the team would be more competitive? Are you thinking that a coach with a more defensive style is going to make the team better? Or a dump and chase style fits our roster better?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They are salivating because of fans like the ones here, and because of the media narrative, especially in Toronto, that says Hughes is desperate to trade anyone to get some wins short term. The narrative is wrong, but Montreal GMs, notably Bergevin and Houle, have gone with them before, so it gets play until Hughes kills it. Friedman is an idiot, but his expression, that other teams offer anvils not life preservers when your team is underwater, applies here.

Hughes is nowhere near the hot seat. It’s irrelevant. I don’t think he’s desperate.

Matheson has value, but I'd be surprised to get a good right D back for him. Maybe an old guy we need to teach the young guys, but then the D corps would be even more overmatched, and it would be tough to get the lessons through. Playing Matheson 25 minutes a night isn't good, but there are lots of worse options.

You’re right, we won’t. We would trade him somewhere for picks. That would open us up to making a second move to get an RD.

If he can get a good deal for Matheson that's fine. I suspect Matheson wants to stay and Hughes wants to make Montreal attractive to free agents, so he may not be in the best position to get value, but good for him if he gets there. The picks and prospects worry me, though. No issue trading picks in the third round or later, but the habs are still looking for top guys. They might be able to trade for some top guys, but that depends on other teams making bad moves. Hoping for bad moves implies trading with dumb teams, losing teams that aren't interested in Matheson. Once the team is good you can plug in OK players, pump their value, and trade them to dumb teams for prospects you like that they undervalue. The habs are several years away from that. If they can get a blocked, undervalued prospect from a good team that would be great, but good teams tend not to undervalue assets.

Contending teams trade picks for player who can help them now.

Trying to make a fairly even trade is a common way to get suckered.

Edit: I didn't mean Hughes was trying to literally trade his useless guys for useful guys, that would take a Houle/Bergevin level sucker on the other end. He's trying to remove some guys, probably for nothing, and acquire some guys he will probably have to overpay for.

We’re stuck with some guys. Almost all of them are bottom six players.

 

[The Great Weal]

nick suzuki is a number 1 centre like david perron is a 1st line winger

You think Nick Suzuki is the same caliber player as David Perron? Yikes

 

[teamfirst]

Maybe a better rebuild blueprint for us is New Jersey. Like us, the lost of core vets like Brodeur and Elias hurted them (they we're already in a no man's land zone prior). They eventually bottomed out like us. Then they picked Hischier at 1OV in 2017 (comparable to us picking Slaf in 2022) and Jack Hughes at 1OV in 2019 (maybe Demidov is 2024 comp?). But it took them another 3 seasons before finally being back to contention (which aligns with the breakout of Hughes and Hischier).

And they had 2 different GM and 5 different coaches during that lapse of time, i gues they had to reset the rebuild a couple of times so maybe we should too

 

[teamfirst]

If you don’t know who the new coach would be, why do you think the team would be more competitive? Are you thinking that a coach with a more defensive style is going to make the team better? Or a dump and chase style fits our roster better?

Can't be worse, and beceause even in rebuild progression is always better than regression.

 

[dcyhabs]

Hughes is nowhere near the hot seat. It’s irrelevant. I don’t think he’s desperate.

You’re right, we won’t. We would trade him somewhere for picks. That would open us up to making a second move to get an RD.

Contending teams trade picks for player who can help them now.

We’re stuck with some guys. Almost all of them are bottom six players.

Other GMs will likely approach it that way, but we’ll see.

Picks from contending teams are low. Good to have, but not a major priority.

It’s more the roster spots and lack of replacements. If they could dump them all today it would just mean rushing prospects.

 

[eklund the clown]

Considering the number of francophone coaches who are good and have not already coached in Montreal I expect Hughes can contact them all on his coffee break. If they are going to hire only francophone coaches they have to develop coaches. I guess Vincent is in the pipeline, but the habs should start a group purely to groom coaches.

The whole head coaching situation consisting of francophone coaches only is a one of the leading issues that has contributed to 32 years of not winning a Stanley Cup.Having to pick another one out of the recycled losers is just ridiculous.I just looked up a list of coaches we have hade since the last cup in 1993 and it's awfully sad and laughable.Until they change this stupidity half of us on here will be dead before we see another cup.The latest a former player has never coached at all.He is a link to the list.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Montreal_Canadiens_head_coaches
Only Jacques Demers who won the cup in 1993 have a winning % pf .704 .Since then Therrien of all people had a winning % of .500 twice and Ducharme .684 in the covid fluke year .That it since 1993 and we wonder what some of the problem is?

 

[HabsCode]

What do people think is the best move made by Hughes (not draft selection related, since I feel it is more the responsability of the amateur scouting staff)?

 

[LaP]

What do people think is the best move made by Hughes (not draft selection related, since I feel it is more the responsability of the amateur scouting staff)?

Monahan fort sure. Two first round picks for taking on a bad contract is pretty much unheard of.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Monahan fort sure. Twi first round picks for taking on a bad contract is pretty much unheard of.

Exactly. He has NOT got a player that is a major liability or an anchor moving forward. Yes, his moves like Dach, Newhook are not as good as hoped at this point in time but even then, he gave nothing away (and I truly mean it), late 1st, early 2nd or not top assets and most of them fail anyway. I think the key of our rebuild is not even on our team yet and it's Demidov. Slafkovsky while a very good NHLer was drafted in a very poor draft. Demidov is another level of quality. I am still unsure about Reinbacher, personally I think he was over drafted but even then he is still young and we don't know yet how it will go in the future for him.

 

[LaP]

Hughes is nowhere near the hot seat. It’s irrelevant. I don’t think he’s desperate.

You’re right, we won’t. We would trade him somewhere for picks. That would open us up to making a second move to get an RD.

Contending teams trade picks for player who can help them now.

We’re stuck with some guys. Almost all of them are bottom six players.

And outside of Gallagher, Evans and Anderson they are not very good bottom 6 guys. David Savard also has hit the mid 30ies wall. Replacing him by a legit top 4 vet should be on the menu before next season. Another thing on the menu should be to acquire a vet (not too old) 4th liner (a physical one). Also a vet 2nd goalie and again not too old. Sign nobody outside of Evans. Free some salary cap. Find better vets next summer on short term contract.

What some of our fans don't realize is all teams tanking with us are still not better than us. We have 10 points. Anaheim and SJ both have 10 points too. Chicago has 11 points. Columbus despite the team surely being motivated to win for Gaudreau has 12 points. Flyers coached by the greatest coach of all time and all sports and having the best rookie since the creation of sports itself has 12 points too. People are simply unrealistic with their expectation. I wish the team would be playing better and the team should be playing better by we were never going to be out of the bottom 10ish this season.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

You think Nick Suzuki is the same caliber player as David Perron? Yikes

Kind of takes why it tooks 5 extra years to fire Bergevin. Comparing David Perron to Suzuki

lmao