The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[LaP]

Exactly. He has NOT got a player that is a major liability or an anchor moving forward. Yes, his moves like Dach, Newhook are not as good as hoped at this point in time but even then, he gave nothing away (and I truly mean it), late 1st, early 2nd or not top assets and most of them fail anyway. I think the key of our rebuild is not even on our team yet and it's Demidov. Slafkovsky while a very good NHLer was drafted in a very poor draft. Demidov is another level of quality. I am still unsure about Reinbacher, personally I think he was over drafted but even then he is still young and we don't know yet how it will go in the future for him.

They are not but this is the thing with kids you never know. Tage Thomspon looked like a bad trade for Buffalo until it was not, That trade looked awful for buffalo for 3 whole years while Stl was winning the cup. KH rolled the dice if you could ask him privately he would tell you so i'm sure. Outside of a very few prospects like Crosby, McJesus, ... you can never be 100% certain. And this is what a rebuild is. You roll the dice until you win something.

 

[Balthazar]

They were hoping that one of Dach or Newhook could play 2C and it turns out that neither of them can do it. That's the main issue right there.

Everything else is a ripple effect of that. No scoring from the 2nd line = too much attention from the other team on Suzuki = 1st line struggling too = dead offense = pressure on defense = shaky goaltending

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Martone/Misa would be the dream but we'd need to win the lottery for that.

might as well finish dead last

 

[Habssince89]

They were hoping that one of Dach or Newhook could play 2C and it turns out that neither of them can do it. That's the main issue right there.

Everything else is a ripple effect of that. No scoring from the 2nd line = too much attention from the other team on Suzuki = 1st line struggling too = dead offense = pressure on defense = shaky goaltending

On the bright side, moving Dach and Newhook to wing permanently fills holes and opens up other wing assets to be moved for help at C, either by trade or moving the assets to clear space.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

It's crazy that the same posters/media members saying that regression is acceptable and the expectation for a rebuild were also the most vocal that this team wasn't going to be in the bottom-5 this season.

We need more accountability around here and not just with the players

 

[Draft]

It's crazy that the same posters/media members saying that regression is acceptable and the expectation for a rebuild were also the most vocal that this team wasn't going to be in the bottom-5 this season.

We need more accountability around here and not just with the players

I’m someone that thought they’d be better.

I think losing Laine and shifting to a new defensive system were two unforeseeable/unforeseen factors that have played a significant role in the team’s lack of success. I think I underestimated how poorly Dach would play. We’re in a rebuild and we have the luxury of sucking while things get figured out.

Super crazy. No offence meant, I’ll be sure to register my opinions with the HF accountability police in the future.

 

[zzoo]

We are now dead last in the whole League.

We have gone from bad to mediocre and now to abysmal.

 

[Ieatsht4brkfst]

buff on a heater right now too, i feel a stomping coming leading to a pressure point

 

[HuGort]

If we get Flames pick could deal our 2nds to move up and get Hensler. Habs have many picks last 4 drafts. We can afford to give up some quantity

 

[ReHabs]

It's crazy that the same posters/media members saying that regression is acceptable and the expectation for a rebuild were also the most vocal that this team wasn't going to be in the bottom-5 this season.

Rebuild gets a grade of A- or possibly an A, regression is acceptable, stagnation is to be expected, also we might need to sell Suzuki and Caufield in the very near future.

 

[Rapala]

He’s not playing centre for the Canes but the point still stands. He’s proving to be an elite player. He would have provided much needed speed for this team.

Doesn't mean he couldn't for us.
He has played center and he'd certainly be a number of steps up on what we are currently using on our 2nd line.

 

[Mrb1p]

What do people think is the best move made by Hughes (not draft selection related, since I feel it is more the responsability of the amateur scouting staff)?

It's the Monahan trade, first one. That's not close.

It's crazy that the same posters/media members saying that regression is acceptable and the expectation for a rebuild were also the most vocal that this team wasn't going to be in the bottom-5 this season.

We need more accountability around here and not just with the players

It's hard to admit you're wrong.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Rebuild gets a grade of A- or possibly an A, regression is acceptable, stagnation is to be expected, also we might need to sell Suzuki and Caufield in the very near future.

There’s a lot of copium being taken right now within the fanbase. A lot of people had expectations the team would be better this year and that HuGo is definitely the answer and Marty St. Louis is some exception to the rule in coaching and was a prodigy. None of those things were true. The honeymoon period ended and we’re seeing flaws now. It doesn’t make you negative or impatient to point those things out anymore.

 

[Rapala]

I present you Ed Olczyk who survived a 18 losses streak in 2003-2004

and Eddie was no where near as smart as Marty is.

 

[ReHabs]

There’s a lot of copium being taken right now within the fanbase. A lot of people had expectations the team would be better this year and that HuGo is definitely the answer and Marty St. Louis is some exception to the rule in coaching and was a prodigy. None of those things were true. The honeymoon period ended and we’re seeing flaws now. It doesn’t make you negative or impatient to point those things out anymore.

The word ‘patience’ or the phrase “this is what we wanted all along” will be used and abused a lot in the coming weeks

I want to see Kent Hughes reaffirm his own vision by making a statement move asap. He made moves that sped things along — he can’t lift his foot off the gas now. Find out what’s wrong and address it.

Being out of the playoff picture in the first week of November is plainly sad. I’d rather not consider any of the current roster players as relevant to our future — including Guhle Slaf and whatnot. Only Hutson is absolved of the responsibility to deal with this regression.

 

[Andy]

The word ‘patience’ or the phrase “this is what we wanted all along” will be used and abused a lot in the coming weeks

But it truly is the most appropriate phrase.

The only way the team comes out of the bottom is through the draft. If you actually look at the top 5 in last three drafts that HuGo have participated in, there aren't any players drafted currently changing anything for their clubs:

2022:
Slaf (still the best pick)
Cooley (barely more productive than Slaf)
Nemec (ahl)
Wright (struggling intensely)
Gauthier (no impact)

2023:
Bedard (below PPG, Hawks still suck and are in lottery zone)
Carlsson (0.5pgg, Ducks struggling still in lottery zone)
Fantilli (0.5 ppg, Columbus in lottery zone)
Smith (healthy scratched recently, Sharks in lottery zone)
Michkov (healthy scratched recently, flyers in lottery zone)

2024:
Celebrini (only player drafted in top 5 playing in the nhl, Sharks still suck)


I just don't see how you can be nothing but patient. It's not like selecting a different combo of players in the last three years would make this club any better. Not only that, the under 25 talent when HuGo came onboard was Suzuki, Caufield, Roy, Kapanen, Guhle, Harris, Struble, Xhekaj, Mailloux....I'm sorry, but there is no way you are coming out a lottery finish with your prospect and young talent comprising of these players. Hell I'll be generous and add Romanov and Poehling in that group of players.

So much work needs to be done and people are being unrealistic if they think this should not be taking this long.

What else should they be doing? Making trades? They have done that with Dach, Newhook, Laine. Hell, the team wouldn't even have offensive players to play on the second line without those trades.

This team needed so much work.

 

[durojean]

I still feel like most of the moves he made are for next year.

He could not foresee Reinbacher and Laine getting injured.

They changed system so it does takes time to adapt to that.

What I don’t like this year :
A really bad training camp and the fact that we backed down and did not put our best players in the last game.

I hate the switch of Newhook at wing. He was finally developping something at center at the end of last year and they start him in a different position.

Not removing the goalies early in the games. I feel like the Rangers blowout and especially the seattle on could have been avoided.

The usage of Kirby Dach in general. Wing, center, wing, center while never losing playing time for bad performance is absurd. He should have started on the fourth to readapt. Now he is exposed and his confidence is taking a it.

I also don’t like the usage of our D. Xhekaj should be a staple on our third pairing and he should play with a right D it being either Barron or Mailloux. I’m not that enamored in Struble. He should not disrupt the balance of righties lefties on the team. I don’t feel like playing him instead of Xhekaj is a big gain and I don’t feel like playing him instead of Barron on his wrong side is good either.

I don’t like how Hutson is overplayed for his first season in. He’s really good but give him time.

Next year is the year our line up really begins to take it’s shape.

Reinbacher without is injurie was supposed to start next year. Demidov is coming. Player have one more year of experience. Dach and Laine were supposed to have the rust shaken off also.

I really do feel that next year we should see 3 good lines

Caufield Suzuki Demidov
Laine Dach Slafkovsky
Roy Newhook Gallagher

Guhle Reinbacher
Hutson Mailloux
Xhekaj Barron

Add in that line up the return for Matheson and Savard plus maybe Hage or our 1st this year and we have a real dangerous line up for next year.

All pointed to us taking a step next year from the actual start of the rebuild. I’m willing to be patient still and let our coach experience a real season with real pressure. He is one of our rookie also, why not give him time ?

 

[ReHabs]

But it truly is the most appropriate phrase.

It is but it can also be abused to justify or excuse away mistakes, set backs, and plain ol’ regression.

Time Is a resource… so is patience

The only way the team comes out of the bottom is through the draft. If you actually look at the top 5 in last three drafts that HuGo have participated in, there aren't any players drafted currently changing anything for their clubs:

2022:
Slaf (still the best pick)
Cooley (barely more productive than Slaf)
Nemec (ahl)
Wright (struggling intensely)
Gauthier (no impact)

2023:
Bedard (below PPG, Hawks still suck and are in lottery zone)
Carlsson (0.5pgg, Ducks struggling still in lottery zone)
Fantilli (0.5 ppg, Columbus in lottery zone)
Smith (healthy scratched recently, Sharks in lottery zone)
Michkov (healthy scratched recently, flyers in lottery zone)

2024:
Celebrini (only player drafted in top 5 playing in the nhl, Sharks still suck)

Pretty uncharitable to the 2023 flock but you’re definitely right these cohorts have not yet impacted the NHL. I didn’t say otherwise but your quick breakdown is a helpful anchor point for anyone who expected the Habs to be soaring off the back of Slafkovsky and the subsequent lottery picks.

I just don't see how you can be nothing but patient. It's not like selecting a different combo of players in the last three years would make this club any better. Not only that, the under 25 talent when HuGo came onboard was Suzuki, Caufield, Roy, Kapanen, Guhle, Harris, Struble, Xhekaj, Mailloux....I'm sorry, but there is no way you are coming out a lottery finish with your prospect and young talent comprising of these players. Hell I'll be generous and add Romanov and Poehling in that group of players.

So much work needs to be done and people are being unrealistic if they think this should not be taking this long.

I think patience isn’t the right word to use because it’s a one way knob: you can only be more patient. I don’t like such a paradigm.

There has to be another way to look at the body of work without insisting for more patience. What if you’re plenty patient and willing to rebuild but you don’t agree with the shortcuts (Dach, Newhook) and non-trades (Anderson, Matheson)?

This is what I meant.

What else should they be doing? Making trades? They have done that with Dach, Newhook, Laine. Hell, the team wouldn't even have offensive players to play on the second line without those trades.

This team needed so much work.

Dumping Toffoli and Lehkonen was a choice. Trading picks for Newhook was a choice.

He’s made very good decisions so far, but some not so good. Patience wouldn’t resolve the fact that acquiring Newhook for picks that will likely never recover in trade value doesn’t jive with a long roster churn rebuild.

Maybe it’s insignificant in the bigger picture but it does call into question what exactly is the bigger picture. A short rebuild with shortcuts and gambles or a long 100% roster churn turnover rebuild?

It can’t be both

 

[Andy]

It is but it can also be abused to justify or excuse away mistakes, set backs, and plain ol’ regression.

Time Is a resource… so is patience

Pretty uncharitable to the 2023 flock but you’re definitely right these cohorts have not yet impacted the NHL. I didn’t say otherwise but your quick breakdown is a helpful anchor point for anyone who expected the Habs to be soaring off the back of Slafkovsky and the subsequent lottery picks.


I think patience isn’t the right word to use because it’s a one way knob: you can only be more patient. I don’t like such a paradigm.

There has to be another way to look at the body of work without insisting for more patience. What if you’re plenty patient and willing to rebuild but you don’t agree with the shortcuts (Dach, Newhook) and non-trades (Anderson, Matheson)?

This is what I meant.

Dumping Toffoli and Lehkonen was a choice. Trading picks for Newhook was a choice.

He’s made very good decisions so far, but some not so good. Patience wouldn’t resolve the fact that acquiring Newhook for picks that will likely never recover in trade value doesn’t jive with a long roster churn rebuild.

Maybe it’s insignificant in the bigger picture but it does call into question what exactly is the bigger picture. A short rebuild with shortcuts and gambles or a long 100% roster churn turnover rebuild?

It can’t be both

Again, I want to know what realistically could have been done to make this team better now.

You reference Toffoli and Lekhonen, but I really don't see either of these players moving the needle right now. Toffoli is currently on the Sharks, one of our lottery rivals this season. Lekhonen is a nice piece, but I'm not convinced we get Colorado's version without having a MacKinnon on our team. We saw Lek on our club, he was your standard middle 6 player with the habs.

You also mention the Newhook trade. Okay, so we dont make the trade and keep the picks. Are the habs any better? What are those picks doing right now?

I just want to realistically know what could have been done? Okay, we don';t trade for Dach, Newhook, and keep Toffolli and Lekhonen?

So are the habs that much better with Romanov, Lekhonen, Toffolli, and the Newhook picks? I really really doubt it. If so, then there is an argument to be made that trading those players were crucial in collecting three back-to-back top 5 picks, which in the grand scheme of things is far more important than retaining those three players.

Short of trading for a top line centre and #1 D man, I don't see what other combo of available moves make the habs better today and future.

 

[Miller Time]

I think patience isn’t the right word to use because it’s a one way knob: you can only be more patient. I don’t like such a paradigm.

There has to be another way to look at the body of work without insisting for more patience. What if you’re plenty patient and willing to rebuild but you don’t agree with the shortcuts (Dach, Newhook) and non-trades (Anderson, Matheson)?

Go look up the 2019 draft class...
9th & 10th leading scorers.

Then go look at 2018, 2017, 2016.

That's why patience is a necessary part of the rebuild process.

If you don't agree with, or have the patience for a rebuild focused on building via the draft and strategic bets on top end first round talent, thats fine...

If you can't understand what the Habs are doing, perhaps remove the blinders

 

[teamfirst]

Dead last this morning, good thing is we cannot go lower than that

 

[RealityBytes]

We are now dead last in the whole League.

View attachment 929103


We have gone from bad to mediocre and now to abysmal.

Well, we have rebuilt to the point where we can't get any lower in the standings. However, it will get better, but probably not what was expected and hoped for this year.

I think that Hughes needs to take a long hard look at his rebuild plan. It seems it needs readjusting if he is to get the results he wants.

 

[Chose]

Has it ever occured to you guys that this may be intentional ?
I mean, tanking willfully is never well regarded, and is probably illegal in the league's books.
And the fans would never embrace it after three years of painful hockey.
But what if they really wanted Hagens or any good top 5 talent, while the 3 last years prospects are still developing and there is still deadwood to get rid of ?
I mean, everybody knows how bad the man to man defensive system is, why do they keep playing it ? Isn't it an easy tank strategy ?

Imagine you can "flip" a switch, imagine changing the defensive system to zone coverage...

 

[salbutera]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1855635443858948241

 

[Guy Larose]

Last year when I said that rebuilding was more than just draft picks and that it was a combination of picks, trades, FA, etc I got nailed to the wall by the tankers, That's what it takes to build a team in real life, not HF fantasy of finishing last every year, like it or not.