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Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part IV (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

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Tommynyr said:
Kakko has played this season first in the Finnish Liiga for TPS, then U20 (gold medal) and after that world Championships (also a gold medal). The kid must be tired after everything and deserves a rest.

I must say that I'm surprised about the fact that Hughes is still the #1 consensus pick.

Watching him at the men's world Championships, for me at least, he didn't quite deliver. I've seen him play before and he was amazing in the Juniors, with his ability to find players and just his speed.

In the Men's though... He fell down and tripped over his skates more than I've ever seen anyone fall in a professional game.
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I really don't mind though. Let Hughes be #1 and join the Devils and have Kakko "fall" down to NYR. I'd be almost disappointed if it went the other way around and I've yet to see first ever Finnish overall. It's damn good thing Kakko decided to skip the combines cause now you don't have to worry about him swaying any heads there.

It's just amazing how they're still viewed equally (or with some Hughes ahead) when the other had an unrivalled showdown for the gold medal @ Worlds'. Then again, we only have to look back two years when these professionals had the "consensus" wrong first pick the last time around. Meaning I can't recall seeing a list where Pettersson was #1. Fall back another three years and there's Ekblad. Lately it seems like there's 40-50% chance the consensus turns out right.

Anyhow I guess I'll just abide time and keep the fingers crossed until the draft day. Let the chips fall.
 
kelsier said:
I really don't mind though. Let Hughes be #1 and join the Devils and have Kakko "fall" down to NYR. I'd be almost disappointed if it went the other way around and I've yet to see first ever Finnish overall. It's damn good thing Kakko decided to skip the combines cause now you don't have to worry about him swaying any heads there.

It's just amazing how they're still viewed equally (or with some Hughes ahead) when the other had an unrivalled showdown for the gold medal @ Worlds'. Then again, we only have to look back two years when these professionals had the "consensus" wrong first pick the last time around. Meaning I can't recall seeing a list where Pettersson was #1. Fall back another three years and there's Ekblad. Lately it seems like there's 40-50% chance the consensus turns out right.

Anyhow I guess I'll just abide time and keep the fingers crossed until the draft day. Let the chips fall.
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It's not amazing. It's simply logical. Hughes is that good of a prospect. Posts like this are amusing.
 
kelsier said:
I really don't mind though. Let Hughes be #1 and join the Devils and have Kakko "fall" down to NYR. I'd be almost disappointed if it went the other way around and I've yet to see first ever Finnish overall. It's damn good thing Kakko decided to skip the combines cause now you don't have to worry about him swaying any heads there.

It's just amazing how they're still viewed equally (or with some Hughes ahead) when the other had an unrivalled showdown for the gold medal @ Worlds'. Then again, we only have to look back two years when these professionals had the "consensus" wrong first pick the last time around. Meaning I can't recall seeing a list where Pettersson was #1. Fall back another three years and there's Ekblad. Lately it seems like there's 40-50% chance the consensus turns out right.

Anyhow I guess I'll just abide time and keep the fingers crossed until the draft day. Let the chips fall.
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I'll chime in as a huge Kakko fan.

Kaapo Kakko has had a great season. At every level he has impressed as a 17 year old.

- U20 Four Nations
- U20 World Juniors
- Liiga setting a record for goals by a pre-draft teenager
- 2 goals in 5 games in the CHL
- Best player regularly in the Euro Hockey Challenge (Men's NT)
- Best player in Brno at the Euro Hockey Tour (Men's NT)
- Leading his team in goals at the World Championship (Men's NT)

He toyed with opponents in Liiga. That's unheard of from a 17 year old. He dominated shifts. He was so dominant that his opponents would focus on him solely on defense. The championship winning HPK coach even admitted this in an interview.

Jack Hughes has broken records all season long. I am a HUUUUGE advocate of quality of opposition when comparing players. However, you cannot blame that on Jack Hughes. He simply didn't have a chance to play against professionals all season. As a late birthday, he did not have the luxury of going to Europe like Matthews (Who was only allowed to do so because he turned 18 in September of that season. EU has very strict guidelines about this). Jack Hughes broke Ovechkin's record for points at the u18s.

Jack Hughes has been the consensus 1st overall pick for years. And this is what it comes down to, to me.

Kaapo Kakko has done enough to be considered for the 1st overall pick

BUT

Jack Hughes simply hasn't played bad enough to drop to 2nd overall.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Kaapo Kakko has done enough to be considered for the 1st overall pick

BUT

Jack Hughes simply hasn't played bad enough to drop to 2nd overall.
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Bingo. What Kakko has done over the last 18 months is amazing and he pulled right up to Hughes..., he is right neck and neck with him and anyone saying otherwise hasn't done their research (or is just biased). But like you said, Hughes hasn't done anything to drop.
 
Hunter Gathers said:
It's not amazing. It's simply logical. Hughes is that good of a prospect. Posts like this are amusing.
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What's amusing is when people disagree with their own pair of eyes. Yeah he's been good against the kids but each one of the real top overalls like McDavid, Matthews and Eichel or even Dahlin was at least able to battle it out versus grown ups. If one cannot do that now, he's unlikely to be able to really perform in the NHL next year. A first overall who's not in the league the next year? Yeah doesn't sound too great, but hey keep reading what you're buying.
 
kelsier said:
What's amusing is when people disagree with their own pair of eyes. Yeah he's been good against the kids but each one of the real top overalls like McDavid, Matthews and Eichel or even Dahlin was at least able to battle it out versus grown ups. If one cannot do that now, he's unlikely to be able to really perform in the NHL next year. A first overall who's not in the league the next year? Yeah doesn't sound too great, but hey keep reading what you're buying.
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Ok. I will bite.

McDavid and Eichel didn't play against pros before he was drafted.

Matthews was only able to do so, because he turned 18 in September and was therefore allowed to play pro hockey in Europe as minors from outside the EU aren't allowed to do so

Saying Jack Hughes only played against kids is a correct observation but let's not forget the fact that Hughes did not have any choice in the matter here. With the "cards" he was dealt, he did everything he could have and he deserves to go 1st overall.
 
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kelsier said:
What's amusing is when people disagree with their own pair of eyes. Yeah he's been good against the kids but each one of the real top overalls like McDavid, Matthews and Eichel or even Dahlin was at least able to battle it out versus grown ups. If one cannot do that now, he's unlikely to be able to really perform in the NHL next year. A first overall who's not in the league the next year? Yeah doesn't sound too great, but hey keep reading what you're buying.
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I don't have to read anything since I've watched Hughes with my own eyes for years. I take it you have never seen him play prior to the WCH.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Ok. I will bite.

McDavid and Eichel didn't play against pros before he was drafted.

Matthews was only able to do so, because he turned 18 in September and was therefore allowed to play pro hockey in Europe as minors from outside the EU aren't allowed to do so

Saying Jack Hughes only played against kids is a correct observation but let's not forget the fact that Hughes did not have any choice in the matter here. With the "cards" he was dealt, he did everything he could have and he deserves to go 1st overall.
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Hughes has actually played plenty against men. It's obvious that @kelsier doesn't understand how the NTDP works. The U18 team played plenty against college players. 10 games against D1 colleges, 16 points.
 
My biggest beef with a lot of the Hughes v. Kakko debates by fans is that they often downplay the ability of the player they view as second in an effort to elevate the ability of the player they prefer.

I don't think anyone needs to downplay the ability of either Hughes or Kakko, regardless of who you prefer. Frankly they're both amazing prospects.

The debate isn't whether one guy is great and the other sucks. The debate is about who you think is better, both now and over the long haul.
 
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Edge said:
My biggest beef with a lot of the Hughes v. Kakko debates by fans is that they often downplay the ability of the player they view as second in an effort to elevate the ability of the player they prefer.

I don't think anyone needs to downplay the ability of either Hughes or Kakko, regardless of who you prefer. Frankly they're both amazing prospects.

The debate isn't whether one guy is great and the other sucks. The debate is about who you think is better, both now and over the long haul.
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Yep. As I keep saying, this is a win-win scenario for us. We got so freaking lucky in a draft like this. I personally feel its deserved as our team and fans have essentially funded all of these shitty f***ing teams in this league that can't sell a God damn ticket. Year after year we see clown-level decisions from so many awful teams pay off in great draft picks.

Enough with that. Glad that we get a fantastic prospect either way, here. We can't lose. Either the best prospect in the draft drops or we get the guy who is one of the best #2 ranked prospects in years.
 
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Hunter Gathers said:
Hughes has actually played plenty against men. It's obvious that @kelsier doesn't understand how the NTDP works. The U18 team played plenty against college players. 10 games against D1 colleges, 16 points.
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You can't compare a NTDP v. D1 college game to an actual D1 college game. It's an exhibition with nothing at stake... that's like saying someone has played plenty of games at the NHL level just from preseason games
 
dangsLITE said:
You can't compare a NTDP v. D1 college game to an actual D1 college game. It's an exhibition with nothing at stake... that's like saying someone has played plenty of games at the NHL level just from preseason games
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It's definitely an exhibition, but having seen enough of these over the years, I can safely say that the teams do play hard and hate losing to a group of kids. It's a pride issue. The idea that these games mean nothing is inaccurate. Case in point, the Minnesota game this year.

And even with that said, the kids are playing against fully grown men. The size and strength alone is interesting.

The idea that Hughes hasn't played against men is just factually wrong. Hughes has already shown the ability to compete against men.
 
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dangsLITE said:
You can't compare a NTDP v. D1 college game to an actual D1 college game. It's an exhibition with nothing at stake... that's like saying someone has played plenty of games at the NHL level just from preseason games
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True, but it still counts. I'd consider excelling at training camp and preseason as significantly more valuable than Juniors, college or AHL experience.

Hughes has played exhibition games against older players and showed he can more than hang. 16 points in 10 games, I'd think he'd still be more than noticeable even if the College teams gave it their all, which they mostly do anyway.

This is so clearly a win win for us Rangers fans I can't fathom how we're still arguing over it lmao
 
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Hunter Gathers said:
I don't have to read anything since I've watched Hughes with my own eyes for years. I take it you have never seen him play prior to the WCH.
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Why wouldn't I have seen him play? I much rather watch most given U20 and U18 tournaments there is than WHC (unless there's someone like Kakko or Laine in the Finnish team). I've seen numerous of games by Hughes on the international level, mostly against kids obviously. Do I watch USHL? Not anymore than you watch FEL.

Hunter Gathers said:
Hughes has actually played plenty against men. It's obvious that @kelsier doesn't understand how the NTDP works. The U18 team played plenty against college players. 10 games against D1 colleges, 16 points.
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People here like to assume things, that much is granted. Yeah I'm aware that he played against elders during the season but saying he played vs men, like seriously? Maybe you mean't to say he played vs amateur hockey players? Seems like we have a little bit different standards for what comes down to actually playing versus men. At least for me it normally has the word "professional" tagged along in the context. Otherwise he wouldn't have seen so much ice surface in the Worlds', or how else would you explain how a 1,6 ppg player (against men) almost falls out of the map when playing against grown ups in the World Championships?

I don't even have anything against Hughes. Actually he does seem like pretty talented prospect and if he had more weight/height I might even view him on the same level as KK. Promising and extremely gifted (like someone you can hardly find any faults from) are two different things however, and I'm not at all certain if he has what it's expected after seeing him just some week ago. Kakko was on a different stratosphere and by the time Hughes reaches the level Kakko is now, who knows how good the latter will already be.
 
I love the Devils Hughes hype train thats going on right now with posting his combine interview. He's going to have the entire weight of that team on his shoulders.
 
Lundquest said:
He’ll also have an elite medical staff at his disposal to deal with it if/when necessary.
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I mean he said in the interview that it wasn't anything that has been checked in a while and that the doctor didn't give him any limitation on what foods he can/can't eat....
 
Joey Bones said:
I mean he said in the interview that it wasn't anything that has been checked in a while and that the doctor didn't give him any limitation on what foods he can/can't eat....
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I don't think that was about his diet. The interviewer asked him about whether the doctors gave him any restrictions on the ice, and he answered none at all. If he has coeliac disease and diabetes, he sure as hell better watch what he eats.
 
Joey Bones said:
I mean he said in the interview that it wasn't anything that has been checked in a while and that the doctor didn't give him any limitation on what foods he can/can't eat....
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Lack of restrictions he mentioned were based on athletic performance.

You better believe that he has dietary restrictions.
 
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