Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part II (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[GoAwayPanarin]

Was he supposed to be picking draft picks for us? What was his role?

Picking? No, He was basically given a role as an advisor of sorts to Slats.

He was important enough to be up there on the stage with the other guys when they picked and obviously had influence.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Picking? No, He was basically given a role as an advisor of sorts to Slats.

He was important enough to be up there on the stage with the other guys when they picked and obviously had influence.

Sounds like a f*** up by the rest of the crew then. He shouldn't be making the highest pick in years.

 

[Edge]

He was on the stage with the rest of the staff when McIlrath was picked.

Gordie Clark was questioned about why he didn't take Fowler and he responded with something akin to "We can't look Mark Messier in the eye and say we're going to draft a soft player"

Messier was also interviewed after that draft and said "It used to be the best player available, but some times the best player doesn't love the game."

That pick (and draft) had his prints all over it. Some people want him to become president of this team.

Yeah, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that McIlrath wasn’t a Messier pick.

I’ve never heard anything close to this in nine years, until right now.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I do wonder if Clark literally meant Messier had an influence or if he was playing to the crowd so to speak. You tell 75% of this fanbase it was Messier and they'll be sold.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that McIlrath wasn’t a Messier pick.

I’ve never heard anything close to this in nine years, until right now.

It's entirely possible that I'm off on this, but the 2 quotes I mentioned have be convinced otherwise.

 

[Edge]

I do wonder if Clark literally meant Messier had an influence or if he was playing to the crowd so to speak. You tell 75% of this fanbase it was Messier and they'll be sold.

I don’t see any way in which Messier, as an advisor, overruled Clark and his staff, and persuaded Sather and the other executives into going with McIlrath.

Not without resignations following and that being a huge story over the ensuing years.

Messier has a voice and an opinion, and he uses it, but some of the “history” attached to him on the internet makes for a way better bar story than a testimony of what actually transpired.

 

[Edge]

It's entirely possible that I'm off on this, but the 2 quotes I mentioned have be convinced otherwise.

Clark was all over that pick. The way he talked about McIlrath playing soccer and what they expected from his “feet” was not spoon fed to him.

I can honestly say I’ve never heard of or seen the interviews you’re referring to. I’ve never even heard them referenced until tonight.

I’d be curious to see or read them though.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's entirely possible that I'm off on this, but the 2 quotes I mentioned have be convinced otherwise.

I'm telling you, you say Messier and tough and half this fan base creams their pants. It was PR.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Clark was all over that pick. The way he talked about McIlrath playing soccer and what they expected from his “feet” was not spoon fed to him.

I can honestly say I’ve never heard of or seen the interviews you’re referring to. I’ve never even heard them referenced until tonight.

I’d be curious to see or read them though.

I looked for them, but they're no longer up as Rangers.tv no longer exists.

Swear on my mother that these things were said though.

Anyway, lets get back to discussing Kakko.

 

[Edge]

I looked for them, but they're no longer up as Rangers.tv no longer exists.

Swear on my mother that these things were said though.

I can’t say one or way or the other what was said, but if they’re the interviews I remember, Schoenfeld, Sather, Clark, Gorton and others were interviewed as well.

But Messier, even at his peak responsibilities, wouldn’t have had the influence or autonomy to make that call.

Now, having said that, he might not have liked Fowler, and he may have liked McIlrath, but I don’t think it was his “call” so to speak.

In that same vein, I freely admit that Fowler would not have been my pick either and I’ve never been a huge fan of his.

 

[Polar Bear]

I really don't think it matters like I said, because it's a different situation and a totally different group running things. I'm like 99.9% sure Gordie had Scvechnikov ranked as the best forward, so it's not as if he was going against the grain there.

 

[Trxjw]

Between Gaborik getting mixed up with Carcillo that year and the Rangers being, perhaps to their detriment sometimes, fans of guys who "had a great second half" it's not too hard to see why McIlrath was the pick there. They thought he would take a few steps forward in his development, and to his credit he did improve, but he was hampered by injuries and just never put it all together.

I think the real issue with the pick wasn't so much McIlrath as a prospect, but more so the Rangers inability to recognize that the game was changing.

 

[Edge]

Between Gaborik getting mixed up with Carcillo that year and the Rangers being, perhaps to their detriment sometimes, fans of guys who "had a great second half" it's not too hard to see why McIlrath was the pick there. They thought he would take a few steps forward in his development, and to his credit he did improve, but he was hampered by injuries and just never put it all together.

I think the real issue with the pick wasn't so much McIlrath as a prospect, but more so the Rangers inability to recognize that the game was changing.

On the flip side, Skjei was a guy they were ahead of the curve on in 2012.

The first round of that 2010 draft was a weird one for defenseman.

Gudbranson has carved out a career, though not quite on the level originally envisioned.

Gormley busted. Forbort took 6 years to become a regular. Tinordi busted.

Fowler has essentially stayed at a certain level for a number of years, but never quite matched the early hype that had potentially going third even just a few months before the draft.

 

[Crease]

Between Gaborik getting mixed up with Carcillo that year and the Rangers being, perhaps to their detriment sometimes, fans of guys who "had a great second half" it's not too hard to see why McIlrath was the pick there. They thought he would take a few steps forward in his development, and to his credit he did improve, but he was hampered by injuries and just never put it all together.

I think the real issue with the pick wasn't so much McIlrath as a prospect, but more so the Rangers inability to recognize that the game was changing.

Oh god, I had completely forgotten that the Rangers took McIlrath because that one game Girardi stood idle while Carcillo beat Gaborik's face in.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

On the flip side, Skjei was a guy they were ahead of the curve on in 2012.

The first round of that 2010 draft was a weird one for defenseman.

Gudbranson has carved out a career, though not quite on the level originally envisioned.

Gormley busted. Forbort took 6 years to become a regular. Tinordi busted.

Fowler has essentially stayed at a certain level for a number of years, but never quite matched the early hype that had potentially going third even just a few months before the draft.

I was certain we were picking Fowler. I remember hearing that Gordie loved him leading up to the draft.

The McIlrath pick garnered the most psychotic reaction from me in my sports life. Holy shit I flipped out I was like 14 and couldn’t handle it lmao. Didnt even get as mad when the Chiefs blew that lead to the Colts in 2013.

 

[Edge]

Oh god, I had completely forgotten that the Rangers took McIlrath because that one game Girardi stood idle while Carcillo beat Gaborik's face in.

I think that’s an oversimplification.

I think the Rangers truly believed that McIlrath had the physical tools to be a very unique defenseman.

I think they thought the feet were going to keep getting better and that his offense, while not a strength, was going to come a long a bit as well.

I know the popular approach is to point to injuries. But the reality is that McIlrath’s D+1 and D+2 seasons weren’t spectacular. At least not to the level one would’ve liked to see.

I think even if McIlrath stayed healthy, it was going to be an uphill battle. The rest of his game never quite materialized and the NHL changed rapidly over the next 4 years.

While it’s easy to fault the Rangers for not seeing it coming, the change was incredibly fast by hockey standards. Not just for defenseman, but for forwards, enforcers and other areas of the game.

At the end of the day, McIlrath was the wrong pick, at the wrong time, in a high profile setting where the Rangers couldn’t afford to be wrong.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

On the flip side, Skjei was a guy they were ahead of the curve on in 2012.

The first round of that 2010 draft was a weird one for defenseman.

Gudbranson has carved out a career, though not quite on the level originally envisioned.

Gormley busted. Forbort took 6 years to become a regular. Tinordi busted.

Fowler has essentially stayed at a certain level for a number of years, but never quite matched the early hype that had potentially going third even just a few months before the draft.

The ironic thing is that the Rangers did the most to change the game away from guys like McIlrath

 

[Edge]

I was certain we were picking Fowler. I remember hearing that Gordie loved him leading up to the draft.

The McIlrath pick garnered the most psychotic reaction from me in my sports life. Holy **** I flipped out I was like 14 and couldn’t handle it lmao. Didnt even get as mad when the Chiefs blew that lead to the Colts in 2013.

I was picking up something work related from a Radio Shack and was listening on my phone. The pick came just as pulled into the parking spot.

I just shook my head, sighed and went inside.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think that’s an oversimplification.

I think the Rangers truly believed that McIlrath had the physical tools to be a very unique defenseman.

I think they thought the feet were going to keep getting better and that his offense, while not a strength, was going to come a long a bit as well.

I know the popular approach is to point to injuries. But the reality is that McIlrath’s D+1 and D+2 seasons weren’t spectacular. At least not to the level one would’ve liked to see.

I think even if McIlrath stayed healthy, it was going to be an uphill battle. The rest of his game never quite materialized and the NHL changed rapidly over the next 4 years.

While it’s easy to fault the Rangers for not seeing it coming, the change was incredibly fast by hockey standards. Not just for defenseman, but for forwards, enforcers and other areas of the game.

At the end of the day, McIlrath was the wrong pick, at the wrong time, in a high profile setting where the Rangers couldn’t afford to be wrong.

He always had limited upside. Maybe 1998 that would have been an ok pick, but a decent skating physical defenseman, with no offense, was a ridiculous top 10 pick by 2010 standard. It was universally hated, for good reason. I don't understand this narrative that 2010 was some entirely different world Why do you think everyone was against the pick then? Because it came 10-15 years too late.

 

[Edge]

He always had limited upside. Maybe 1998 that would have been an ok pick, but a decent skating physical defenseman, with no offense, was a ridiculous top 10 pick by 2010 standard. It was universally hated, for good reason. I don't understand this narrative that 2010 was some entirely different world Why do you think everyone was against the pick then? Because it came 10-15 years too late.

But here’s the thing - people weren’t universally against the pick. Not by a long shot.

You had people on here comparing him to Shea Weber and talking about his expanded role as the season went on.

Hell, remember some of the comments when he was here on the main roster? A lot of pushing for him to play and pinning the problem on the Rangers.

That McIlrath pick was not nearly as lamented in its time as we’ve sort of retconned it to be.

It wasn’t universally loved, but it wasn’t loathed either.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

But here’s the thing - people weren’t universally against the pick. Not by a long shot.

You had people on here comparing him to Shea Weber and talking about his expanded role as the season went on.

Hell, remember some of the comments when he was here on the main roster? A lot of pushing for him to play and pinning the problem on the Rangers.

That McIlrath pick was not nearly as lamented in its time as we’ve sort of retconned it to be.

It wasn’t universally loved, but it wasn’t loathed either.

To be fair, I missed that draft and didn't see the responses people had to the pick, but I remember talking to a friend of my parents the next day and he was like "you'll never believe who we picked". And when he told me I couldn't believe it.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Also, people will rationalize anything. You'll never get universal disapproval from fans. I remember how 99% of people were against the Beckham trade on the Giants board. The next day it was a good trade.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think that’s an oversimplification.

I think the Rangers truly believed that McIlrath had the physical tools to be a very unique defenseman.

I think they thought the feet were going to keep getting better and that his offense, while not a strength, was going to come a long a bit as well.

I know the popular approach is to point to injuries. But the reality is that McIlrath’s D+1 and D+2 seasons weren’t spectacular. At least not to the level one would’ve liked to see.

I think even if McIlrath stayed healthy, it was going to be an uphill battle. The rest of his game never quite materialized and the NHL changed rapidly over the next 4 years.

While it’s easy to fault the Rangers for not seeing it coming, the change was incredibly fast by hockey standards. Not just for defenseman, but for forwards, enforcers and other areas of the game.

At the end of the day, McIlrath was the wrong pick, at the wrong time, in a high profile setting where the Rangers couldn’t afford to be wrong.

And the stigma attached to that pick remains with us to this day. I was convinced they were taking Tarasenko.

 

[Edge]

To be fair, I missed that draft and didn't see the responses people had to the pick, but I remember talking to a friend of my parents the next day and he was like "you'll never believe who we picked". And when he told me I couldn't believe it.

I’ll even fall on my sword a little here.

I wasn’t crazy about the McIlrath pick, and campaigned hard for Tarasenko. However, I thought McIlrath had a shot to be a good NHL player. My biggest concern was whether he would justify passing on the guys taken after him.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I’ll even fall on my sword a little here.

I wasn’t crazy about the McIlrath pick, and campaigned hard for Tarasenko. However, I thought McIlrath had a shot to be a good NHL player. My biggest concern was whether he would justify passing on the guys taken after him.

I guess my problem with it was that a good skating defensive defenseman is a good player, but not one you take 10th overall.