Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Jenkins]

I don't know why you're so obsessed with making that comparison, because it's a straight up idiotic comparison. You're comparing a 3C to a 4th line winger and a bottom pair D. It's not "Bonino vs Reaves and Hunwick", it's "Bonino, Sundqvist and Ruhwedel while needing another defenseman vs Reaves, Hunwick and $3 million in cap space for a 3C".

In unrelated news, I'm glad to see that there are still Fleury fanboys active on social media. In today's example, Fleury deserves a 30 for 30 special because he waived his NMC for Vegas.

Shouldn't it be called 30 for 29?

 

[Gary Roberts]

Shouldn't it be called 30 for 29?

Wasn't that his goals-saves ratio against the Flyers in the playoffs that one year?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Shouldn't it be called 30 for 29?

They wanted to call it 29 for 30, which made me cringe into another dimension

Like I get liking a certain player a ton, but the obsession some people have with Fleury in this city is just unhealthy. Losing his job and then going to an expansion team doesn't make him worthy of a special that almost no hockey players get. I don't even think the Soviet teams have a 30 for 30 special yet, and I think a ton of casual fans would watch a Soviet team special. Who outside of Pittsburgh is going to care about a documentary about how Fleury lost his job and then waived his NMC?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sure but then many of you basically suggest we can't get a better center than Bonino without paying significant assets. Both "sides" want their cake and eat it too.

I want to complain about what JR hasn't done but will rejoice if he does something better and you want to forgive JR for what he hasn't done because of what you assume he will do.

I think we'll either get someone better or cheaper than Bonino. But I also think it will cost us some assets. I think that's preferable to either having a worse player or overpaying for Bonino though. Cap hit has to factor in to it. I would give up an asset to avoid a 4 year overpayment.

 

[Jenkins]

Not signing Bonino was a mistake as we sit here today. JR knows a lot more than I do so maybe he's got a plan that will make me look foolish. I hope so.

Signing a bottom 6 player to 4 years, 4+ million is a mistake (especially at his level of play and age).

He very likely isn't going to get better than what he was last season. Bonino likely gets worse every year and he was good for us last season but not great.

I don't think that was a hard decision to make for JR.

 

[Jenkins]

They wanted to call it 29 for 30, which made me cringe into another dimension

Like I get liking a certain player a ton, but the obsession some people have with Fleury in this city is just unhealthy. Losing his job and then going to an expansion team doesn't make him worthy of a special that almost no hockey players get. I don't even think the Soviet teams have a 30 for 30 special yet, and I think a ton of casual fans would watch a Soviet team special. Who outside of Pittsburgh is going to care about a documentary about how Fleury lost his job and then waived his NMC?

Yeah outside of Pens fans not a lot of interest would exist. Would be great viewing but yeah they'll never make that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sure but then many of you basically suggest we can't get a better center than Bonino without paying significant assets. Both "sides" want their cake and eat it too.

I want to complain about what JR hasn't done but will rejoice if he does something better and you want to forgive JR for what he hasn't done because of what you assume he will do.

I mean, reserving judgement when there are no games being played and the GM had said multiple times that he's waiting for ideal targets to shake loose and has fallback options if they don't come through is a thing people can do. It's what most people are doing.

The 3C situation not a criticize/praise either/or, but if somebody chooses to be critical at this stage - which is well within the plan Rutherford laid out - they ought to own it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sure but then many of you basically suggest we can't get a better center than Bonino without paying significant assets. Both "sides" want their cake and eat it too.

Why would anyone assume we could upgrade on Bonino without giving up significant assets?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

They wanted to call it 29 for 30, which made me cringe into another dimension

Like I get liking a certain player a ton, but the obsession some people have with Fleury in this city is just unhealthy. Losing his job and then going to an expansion team doesn't make him worthy of a special that almost no hockey players get. I don't even think the Soviet teams have a 30 for 30 special yet, and I think a ton of casual fans would watch a Soviet team special. Who outside of Pittsburgh is going to care about a documentary about how Fleury lost his job and then waived his NMC?

Yinzers who moved.

A 30 for 30 on Pens injuries and health problems could be a thing.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sure but then many of you basically suggest we can't get a better center than Bonino without paying significant assets. Both "sides" want their cake and eat it too.

How so?

I'm not being contradictory at all. I understand that JR will have to spend some assets to fill the 3C hole AND I don't believe Bonino should have been re-signed to fill that spot.

How are those two opinions an example of me "wanting my cake and eating it too"?

 

[WayneSid9987]

I'd rather spend 4 million on Bones then 3.25 on Reaves and Hunwick.

Thats not fair at all.
Reaves is making 4th line money.
Hunwick is making #5-7 money.
Bones at 1.9 was a decent 3C at that price.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Thats not fair at all.
Reaves is making 4th line money.
Hunwick is making #5-7 money.
Bones at 1.9 was a decent 3C at that price.

I also don't understand why some folks think the Pens would go into this season without adding another defenseman after they lost two regulars in Hainsey and Daley to free agency.

Did folks really think it realistic they'd go into the season with Ruhwedel as the permanent #6, with only a struggling Pouliot as an insurance policy as the #7?

 

[Gurglesons]

I also don't understand why some folks think the Pens would go into this season without adding another defenseman after they lost two regulars in Hainsey and Daley to free agency.

Did folks really think it realistic they'd go into the season with Ruhwedel as the permanent #6, with only a struggling Pouliot as an insurance policy as the #7?

I would hope if you are spending over 20 million on your top four defenseman you can afford to have a player that costs around league minimum be your number six.

 

[3074326]

I also don't understand why some folks think the Pens would go into this season without adding another defenseman after they lost two regulars in Hainsey and Daley to free agency.

Did folks really think it realistic they'd go into the season with Ruhwedel as the permanent #6, with only a struggling Pouliot as an insurance policy as the #7?

It's not about the roster at the start of the season for the Pens. It's about the post-deadline roster. I'm not worried about the staff that has helped deliver two consecutive cups.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Also, as others have mentioned, Hunwick was signed to be replacement to Cole. Signing him to his contract allows us to stay away from the big raise Cole is likely to get.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't know why you're so obsessed with making that comparison, because it's a straight up idiotic comparison. You're comparing a 3C to a 4th line winger and a bottom pair D. It's not "Bonino vs Reaves and Hunwick", it's "Bonino, Sundqvist and Ruhwedel while needing another defenseman vs Reaves, Hunwick and $3 million in cap space for a 3C".

In unrelated news, I'm glad to see that there are still Fleury fanboys active on social media. In today's example, Fleury deserves a 30 for 30 special because he waived his NMC for Vegas.

Because a line up of..

Jake - Crosby - Sheary
Wilson - Malkin - Kessel
Rust - Bonino - Hornqvisr
Kuhn - Sundqvist - Rowney

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Cole / Pooh - Cole / Ruh

Is an easier roster to improve, bring up youth or acquire depth defenseman / 4th line center.

 

[Peat]

Sure but then many of you basically suggest we can't get a better center than Bonino without paying significant assets. Both "sides" want their cake and eat it too.

I want to complain about what JR hasn't done but will rejoice if he does something better and you want to forgive JR for what he hasn't done because of what you assume he will do.

I am happy to give up significant assets for a better centre than Bonino.

Although I believe we're heading for less significant asset loss in exchange for an equal centre.

As long as the team isn't weaker and the deal isn't notably unfair, I am happy.

I would hope if you are spending over 20 million on your top four defenseman you can afford to have a player that costs around league minimum be your number six.

No top 4, no matter how stacked, will make me happy with stinting on the bottom pairing, unless they're playing 30 minutes a night each and are impervious to injury.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also, as others have mentioned, Hunwick was signed to be replacement to Cole. Signing him to his contract allows us to stay away from the big raise Cole is likely to get.

The difference in most of us against the Hunwick signing is Cole was 26 when we got him and Hunwick is 32.

Also, I think most of us are just arguing that money could be spent to improve the center position rather than the D where we knew we were tying up at the very least 8 mil in Dumo and Schultz.

 

[Jenkins]

Because a line up of..

Jake - Crosby - Sheary
Wilson - Malkin - Kessel
Rust - Bonino - Hornqvisr
Kuhn - Sundqvist - Rowney

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Cole / Pooh - Cole / Ruh

Is an easier roster to improve, bring up youth or acquire depth defenseman / 4th line center.

Where's Hagelin?

 

[Gurglesons]

No top 4, no matter how stacked, will make me happy with stinting on the bottom pairing, unless they're playing 30 minutes a night each and are impervious to injury.

Why would you spend the kind of money we are on your top four especially in regards to term then?

Like I don't get how spending 4 mil on Bones is insane and spending 25 mil on at best the 6th best D core in the league isn't.

Like how is Bonino's contract a huge risk and Dumo's not when it comes to term?

 

[Gurglesons]

Where's Hagelin?

Hags likely gets moved to pay for Bones.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because a line up of..

Jake - Crosby - Sheary
Wilson - Malkin - Kessel
Rust - Bonino - Hornqvisr
Kuhn - Sundqvist - Rowney

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Cole / Pooh - Cole / Ruh

Is an easier roster to improve, bring up youth or acquire depth defenseman / 4th line center.

That lineup is also a good bit worse than what the Penguins would have with Hunwick and a cheaper 3C like Sheahan or Karlsson. You're entirely gambling on Pouliot being a NHLer or Ruhwedel proving last year wasn't a fluke for that bottom pair to even be effective, and that doesn't touch on Letang being made of glass and Maatta not being that much behind him. Re-signing Bonino makes your 2nd line (since you'd apparently have to trade Hagelin to afford him), 4th line (because Sundqvist isn't a NHL caliber player) and defense worse, and I'm not even sure it makes your 3rd line much better than signing Hunwick and trading for someone like Sheahan.

That also pretends you'd be able to trade Hagelin without taking back salary, while in the real world guys like Benoit Pouliot are getting bought out after going from 2 seasons of a 50 point pace to a 17 point pace last season.

 

[Jenkins]

Because a line up of..

Jake - Crosby - Sheary
Wilson - Malkin - Kessel
Rust - Bonino - Hornqvisr
Kuhn - Sundqvist - Rowney

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Cole / Pooh - Cole / Ruh

Is an easier roster to improve, bring up youth or acquire depth defenseman / 4th line center.

Hags likely gets moved to pay for Bones.

We look a worse team than what we would likely be with JR's current plan.

We don't get better anywhere except we have Bonino instead of someone we will get and we don't know if Bonino would be better until it happens.

We downgrade quite a bit from Hagelin to Wilson, the bottom pair D/7th D and the 4th line.

EDIT: basically what Emp said

 

[Gurglesons]

That lineup is also a good bit worse than what the Penguins would have with Hunwick and a cheaper 3C like Sheahan or Karlsson. You're entirely gambling on Pouliot being a NHLer or Ruhwedel proving last year wasn't a fluke for that bottom pair to even be effective, and that doesn't touch on Letang being made of glass and Maatta not being that much behind him. Re-signing Bonino makes your 2nd line (since you'd apparently have to trade Hagelin to afford him), 4th line (because Sundqvist isn't a NHL caliber player) and defense worse, and I'm not even sure it makes your 3rd line much better than signing Hunwick and trading for someone like Sheahan.

That also pretends you'd be able to trade Hagelin without taking back salary, while in the real world guys like Benoit Pouliot are getting bought out after going from 2 seasons of a 50 point pace to a 17 point pace last season.

That is true about the Hagelin situation.

But at the same time you are assuming a career best 25 pt Karlsson (I'd actually be happy to get him) and Sheahan who put up 18 can suddenly hit 40 given more defensive starts and playing more minutes here.

The point is all you need to worry about is addressing a #6 D which is insanely easy to do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That is true about the Hagelin situation.

But at the same time you are assuming a career best 25 pt Karlsson (I'd actually be happy to get him) and Sheahan who put up 18 can suddenly hit 40 given more defensive starts and playing more minutes here.

The point is all you need to worry about is addressing a #6 D which is insanely easy to do.

I don't think they'd replace Bonino, but I think the drop off in the other areas of the roster that I mentioned are a lot bigger than the dropoff from Bonino to Sheahan. You don't just need to worry about the #6D, because Wilson isn't good enough to be a top-6 winger and your 4th line is just awful. People complain about Rowney having a full time role, but Rowney wouldn't even be the worst guy on that hypothetical line. You create multiple holes on that roster just to overpay to keep a maddeningly inconsistent 3rd line center that isn't worth keeping. You churn and burn players like Bonino, you keep them when they're cheap and let them go when they become too expensive. Re-signing him would have been the opposite of that. I would 100% rather take this lineup:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Hagelin-Sheahan-Kessel
Wilson-Rowney-Reaves

Maatta-Letang
Dumoulin-Schultz
Cole-Hunwick

Over your lineup. It's not even close.