Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Gurglesons]

No one knows if they're realistic options, that's why I'm saying the 3C is to be determined. There are more potential 3C options than there are D options, which makes it more likely that they'll be able to find a 3C out of a group of Dea, Blueger, Rowney and Simon over getting lucky with Pouliot getting his head out of his ass. All of those guys are basically just scratch off cards at this point, some might be more valuable than others but all of them are inherently risky right now.

Also lmao at your defense of Sheahan not being cheap to acquire. The Wings were looking to trade him at the deadline last year and they need cap space to re-sign Athanasiou. The idea that the Wings are going to keep Sheahan because they want to make the playoffs is just kooky.

This is riddle with assumptions.

Here is one I would be surprised if the Wings move Sheahan and I'll bet you he isn't moved this year and if he is it is for a 2nd or higher at the deadline.

Pouliot has proven he is a more consistent NHLer than every player you listed.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Half the problem with Bonino is that people assume he's going to remain a positive value asset at 4 mil per. That's anything but guaranteed, given his shortcomings. He's pretty much the poster boy for that mid-roster player you don't want to be taking up a lot of cap space with - slow player in a league getting faster every year, with unremarkable production beside an elite forward.

People are also discounting Reaves entirely, but he was an element that the org felt they needed going into next season with all the unanswered abuse our stars were taking. Turning the other cheek is noble, but if Sid or Geno goes out because of targeted attempts to injure from the likes of Niskanen last year, everything else is moot. We had to try something because the league clearly won't. I'd be shocked to see Staal and Dubinsky types continue their repeated cheap shots shift-after-shift next year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is riddle with assumptions.

And yours isn't? And literally everything on here is an assumption. That's not a legitimate counter argument because everyone here is making decisions based on their assumptions.

Here is one I would be surprised if the Wings move Sheahan and I'll bet you he isn't moved this year and if he is it is for a 2nd or higher at the deadline.

If he's not moved this year, they won't be able to sign Athanasiou. Seeing how he was made available at the deadline last year, I'm fairly confident he'll be the first guy traded when they need cap space to re-sign AA. And isn't this just an assumption on your part anyway, something you criticized me for doing in the same post?

Half the problem with Bonino is that people assume he's going to remain a positive value asset at 4 mil per for 4 years. That's anything but guaranteed, given his shortcomings. He's pretty much the poster boy for that mid-roster player you don't want to be taking up a lot of cap space with - slow player in a league getting faster every year, with unremarkable production beside an elite forward.

People are also discounting Reaves entirely, but he was an element that the org felt they needed going into next season with all the unanswered abuse our stars were taking. Turning the other cheek is noble, but if Sid or Geno goes out because of targeted attempts to injure from the likes of Niskanen last year, everything else is moot. We had to do something because the league clearly won't.

Reaves isn't an issue because he's better than Sundqvist and Archibald. You can not even include how much the Penguins need toughness to say that move was fine. Reaves is a better hockey player than who would be playing in his place.

 

[Jenkins]

Why does anyone think JR won't bring in an adequate 3C? He is gunning for 3 cups in a row. That's a monumental achievement and pretty much impossible in this era. That's a huge motivation.

If I was going to worry about something I'd lean towards the other direction. What is he going to give up before the deadline to try and stack this team? He'll never be in this position again (I do think he'll be smart though).

 

[Ogrezilla]

This is riddle with assumptions.

Here is one I would be surprised if the Wings move Sheahan and I'll bet you he isn't moved this year and if he is it is for a 2nd or higher at the deadline.

Pouliot has proven he is a more consistent NHLer than every player you listed.

Bull ****. Pouliot has shown that at his best he was an ok number 6. And then he came back a year later and played like absolute garbage that had no business in the NHL. To say he's proven any sort of consistency as an NHLer is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Shady Machine]

I also don't know if Simon can play center, hence why I said maybe with Simon and I called Johnson a wildcard because no one here knows much about him.

The issue is signing Hunwick didn't prevent the Penguins from getting a 3C. It may have prevented the Penguins from keeping Bonino, but it didn't prevent the Penguins from getting a 3C. They're still going to get a 3C. The comparison is "Bonino and Ruhwedel being the #6D vs $2.5-$3 million to spend on a 3C and Hunwick being the #6D". It's entirely too early to say the signing was an improper allocation of resources until the roster is actually finished. People who are complaining about it are assuming that the Penguins are just going to sit on their remaining cap space and play Rowney as their 3C.

I also don't know why people are so hellbent on saying the Penguins had to bring back Bonino. He got overpaid by a team lacking center depth. The Penguins would have been dumb to match that offer, it would have been flat out an incorrect decision. You don't overpay to keep players like Bonino only to hurt your team in other spots.

We aren't hellbent on keeping Bonino. We are saying Bones is preferable to a plan we haven't seen the resolution to yet. Frankly I've been saying it was a mistake not to re-sign Bones because Warm Cookies asked someone to commit to it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We aren't hellbent on keeping Bonino. We are saying Bones is preferable to a plan we haven't seen the resolution to yet. Frankly I've been saying it was a mistake not to re-sign Bones because Warm Cookies asked someone to commit to it.

But outside of being able to say you have a 3C today, is there really any sort of advantage for that? At least that you can definitively say.

This is the same kind of logic that makes people say "I don't want to break up with my girlfriend/boyfriend because I don't want to be single".

 

[Gurglesons]

Bull ****. Pouliot has shown that at his best he was an ok number 6. And then he came back a year later and played like absolute garbage that had no business in the NHL. To say he's proven any sort of consistency as an NHLer is beyond ridiculous.

He's proven he can play in the NHL. None of those players have been called up for more than a
handful.

 

[Ogrezilla]

We aren't hellbent on keeping Bonino. We are saying Bones is preferable to a plan we haven't seen the resolution to yet. Frankly I've been saying it was a mistake not to re-sign Bones because Warm Cookies asked someone to commit to it.

This is obviously the core of this disagreement. I'd rather wait to get the right 3C for the right cap hit (even if it costs assets) than overpay someone just because he's the best that's currently available. We'd maybe be a better team today that way, but it stops us from actually making the right move for 3C going forward.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We aren't hellbent on keeping Bonino. We are saying Bones is preferable to a plan we haven't seen the resolution to yet. Frankly I've been saying it was a mistake not to re-sign Bones because Warm Cookies asked someone to commit to it.

Isn't it just understood that keeping Bones would be better than having Rowney as our 3C? The assumption is that we're going to be getting a better 3C based on logic and the repeated, explicit plans outlined by our GM, so people are reserving judgement until that plan is executed rather than complaining halfway through that we didn't get Boyle, Moore, or ****ing Desharnais.

I'd have added McClement to that **** list, but we got him and the person who said that all he wanted was McClement is still complaining.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He's proven he can play in the NHL. None of those players have been called up for more than a
handful.

He did. And then he proved that he can be an outright disaster. Which player are we getting? Because I'd rather play with 5 D than play the 2016-2017 version of Pouliot. I'll take a guy who hasn't proven anything over Pouliot.

 

[Gurglesons]

But outside of being able to say you have a 3C today, is there really any sort of advantage for that? At least that you can definitively say.

He costs nothing, is good for around 40pts a year if he plays a full season, is at worst mediocre defensively but has proven he can at least eat minutes so Crosby and Malkin get favorable starts.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Isn't it just understood that keeping Bones would be better than having Rowney as our 3C? The assumption is that we're going to be getting a better 3C based on logic and the repeated, explicit plans outlined by our GM, so people are reserving judgement until that plan is executed rather than complaining halfway through that we didn't get Boyle, Moore, or ****ing Desharnais.

I'd have added McClement, but we got him and the person who wanted him is still complaining.

I'm not sure it'll be better than Bonino. But I fully expect whoever we get will either be better or cheaper.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He costs nothing, is good for around 40pts a year if he plays a full season, is at worst mediocre defensively but has proven he can at least eat minutes so Crosby and Malkin get favorable starts.

he costs 4.1 million for 4 years. That's not nothing.

 

[Gurglesons]

He did. And then he proved that he can be an outright disaster. Which player are we getting? Because I'd rather play with 5 D than play the 2016-2017 version of Pouliot. I'll take a guy who hasn't proven anything over Pouliot.

Pouliot has not seen consistency in his usage since 2015-16 when our same coaching staff saw enough of him to feed him more minutes than Schultz that year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He costs nothing, is good for around 40pts a year if he plays a full season, is at worst mediocre defensively but has proven he can at least eat minutes so Crosby and Malkin get favorable starts.

he costs 4.1 million for 4 years. That's not nothing.

Exactly. What you make up for in not trading assets for him, you lose in having to overpay to keep him and weaken other areas of your roster.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not sure it'll be better than Bonino. But I fully expect whoever we get will either be better or cheaper.

I wasn't clear enough there. I meant better than Rowney.

But yeah, I agree with better or cheaper.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Pouliot has not seen consistency in his usage since 2015-16 when our same coaching staff saw enough of him to feed him more minutes than Schultz that year.

you mean the same year that they brought in Schultz to replace him?

 

[Gurglesons]

he costs 4.1 million for 4 years. That's not nothing.

Every contract in the league has proven it can be moved. It costs nothing to sign him to that deal.

 

[Jenkins]

He costs nothing, is good for around 40pts a year if he plays a full season, is at worst mediocre defensively but has proven he can at least eat minutes so Crosby and Malkin get favorable starts.

He doesn't cost nothing though. He costs over 4 million and that impacts our roster going forward.

Bonino isn't worth 4+ mil. Salary and term is a significant overpayment.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Every contract in the league has proven it can be moved. It costs nothing to sign him to that deal.

Any contract can be moved, but not at any time. And not without taking back other negative value.

It makes it that much harder to bring in another center though. Say the deal JR wants becomes available. Woops, we have to move Bonino first.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Every contract in the league has proven it can be moved. It costs nothing to sign him to that deal.

Uh, except for the buyouts, and deals where you have a negative value asset that you have to bribe teams to take.

 

[Gurglesons]

you mean the same year that they brought in Schultz to replace him?

Yeah the same year they scratched Schultz before Pooh in terms of playing him in the playoffs.

Pouliot has proven he is at best a #6 which is more than Dea, Simon, and Blueger have proven.

 

[Jenkins]

Every contract in the league has proven it can be moved. It costs nothing to sign him to that deal.

and we'd be taking back a good part of that salary. We likely wouldn't be getting a C in return. We don't really need anything in other areas so it's kind of pointless.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah the same year they scratched Schultz before Pooh in terms of playing him in the playoffs.

Pouliot has proven he is at best a #6 which is more than Dea, Simon, and Blueger have proven.

that's fine. None of them should be playing when it matters because we are obviously planning to sign another center.

but just for clarification, what am I misremembering here? Because Schultz played 15 games those playoffs to DP's 2.