Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Empoleon8771]

For what it's worth, the Post Gazette is thinking the Penguins are going to re-sign Rust long term next summer, not just give him a short term deal. I don't think that's exactly shocking to anyone, but just throwing it out there. I think they could probably give him something similar to Zach Hyman, so something like 4-5 years at $2.5 million AAV.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Rutherford doesn't have a crystal ball, but he does have the numbers of all the other GMs and can get a good idea of what the centre market looks like before deciding on Bonino's contract. He's chosen to gamble on what he can get that isn't Bonino based on that understanding.

If the gamble goes wrong, then I think its fair to blame Rutherford for misreading the market. Just like he deserves praise if it turns out he got it right.

The problem is that he's getting criticized right now and Bonino's name is always being brought up, but nobody here wants to own it and say "not signing Bonino was a mistake".

 

[Shaffer]

For what it's worth, the Post Gazette is thinking the Penguins are going to re-sign Rust long term next summer, not just give him a short term deal. I don't think that's exactly shocking to anyone, but just throwing it out there. I think they could probably give him something similar to Zach Hyman, so something like 4-5 years at $2.5 million AAV.

Connor Brown got 2.1m/3yrs with 20 goals in his rookie season. Long term would've brought that AAV up. But for Rust I would give him 2.25m/5yrs

 

[mpp9]

For what it's worth, the Post Gazette is thinking the Penguins are going to re-sign Rust long term next summer, not just give him a short term deal. I don't think that's exactly shocking to anyone, but just throwing it out there. I think they could probably give him something similar to Zach Hyman, so something like 4-5 years at $2.5 million AAV.

If he puts up another 20 goal pace, he could ask for closer to 3. Id rather them get that done soon. We know what we have in him and how ideal he is for our system.

 

[Shaffer]

Rust vs Brown hero chart

https://public.tableau.com/shared/BYDJPCGK6?:display_count=yes

 

[Peat]

The problem is that he's getting criticized right now and Bonino's name is always being brought up, but nobody here wants to own it and say "not signing Bonino was a mistake".

I believe Shady said it?

But otherwise, yes, I'd agree that's what appears to be happening and it makes little sense to me.

 

[Gurglesons]

The problem is that he's getting criticized right now and Bonino's name is always being brought up, but nobody here wants to own it and say "not signing Bonino was a mistake".

Not signing Bonino after trading our only legitimate center prospect with no plan to replace him was a mistake.

You can move that contract at any time in the next four years and our goal is to win another cup in the next two. Bonino helps us do that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Connor Brown got 2.1m/3yrs with 20 goals in his rookie season. Long term would've brought that AAV up. But for Rust I would give him 2.25m/5yrs

Brown gave up RFA years, not UFA years. Brown isn't as good of a comparable for Rust as Hyman is based on age and RFA years left.

If he puts up another 20 goal pace, he could ask for closer to 3. Id rather them get that done soon. We know what we have in him and how ideal he is for our system.

He could ask for $3 million, yeah, but Sheary just got $3 million after putting up 23 goals and 53 points in 61 games. I really have a tough time seeing him getting $3 million.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think there's was a certain gamble with not re-signing Bonino but I think it was the right choice. It's a hefty contract for the player he is, he takes a lot of shot blocking abuse, I wouldn't want to see what he'll look like in year four and given his "consistency" problems I can't say I'd like to count on him after getting his big payday contract. I'm not sure you'd even call his problems consistency, it's more that as a Pen he was a player who spent the first however many months at 50% offensively and then turned things up. I hate that **** with a player of his calibre. He also just had his worst PO ppg of his NHL career.

Dude was frustrating. The loss is his shot blocking, his defensive work and the chance of him hitting his highest gear and performing like a top 6 C. Idk how much him hitting that gear should be counted on as he ages, though.

Replacing him might be a problem but it's not adding a bad contract you regret in a couple of years.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I believe Shady said it?

But otherwise, yes, I'd agree that's what appears to be happening and it makes little sense to me.

Shady said he would have been "okay with it". Not the same thing.

Not signing Bonino after trading our only legitimate center prospect with no plan to replace him was a mistake.

You can move that contract at any time in the next four years and our goal is to win another cup in the next two. Bonino helps us do that.

There was and is a plan to replace him. JR's been explicit about that plan.

And you can't simply say we can move Bonino making 4 mil per for 4 years at any time. He's a slow center in a fast league with mediocre numbers beside a star winger. You don't know.

But hey, if you want to definitively say right now that not signing Bonino was a mistake, with no qualifiers, then by all means. But I don't think you will.

 

[Andy99]

Not signing Bonino after trading our only legitimate center prospect with no plan to replace him was a mistake.

You can move that contract at any time in the next four years and our goal is to win another cup in the next two. Bonino helps us do that.

You're assuming there was no plan. Everything I've heard and read said there is/was a plan. JR said he had like 5 possible players to trade after the draft and at one point the media was saying we would have a trade any minute and it didn't materialize. Mackey said in his recent chat, when asked, that JR definitely has/had a plan and he said it as if he had inside info to a question they sounded just like your complaint. I think he's had like four plans and a Plan B. For a variety of reasons that we may never know, it hasn't happened yet. If nothing happens before the TDL, we'll all have a right to be pissed at his "lame" plans, but to say he didn't have a plan to begin with is a huge assumption based on zero evidence

Bonino was never going to be signed at $4 mil here and I'm pretty sure they wanted to move on from him anyway in the name of letting players walk who have played a lot of hard hockey here the last two years. I have no problem with that decision. They signed none of their FAs and all of them were older. The only one I lament is Cullen and there was nothing JR could do about that one

 

[Peat]

I'm happy to trust the WBS watchers and stats that suggest that Sundqvist is not a markedly better, if at all better, centre prospect than Bluegers. Plus Olund has better SHL numbers at the same age.

Trade our only legitimate centre prospect we did not.

 

[Andy99]

Edit: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...ey-Penguins-chat-8-24-17/stories/201708240127

Here's your answer to the question of whether JR had a plan before letting Bonino go. Read the third and last question asked by "Joe"

 

[SCPens]

Not signing Bonino after trading our only legitimate center prospect with no plan to replace him was a mistake.

You can move that contract at any time in the next four years and our goal is to win another cup in the next two. Bonino helps us do that.

I can't quite figure out which parts of your bolded sentence are most out to lunch. Bonino at 4 years for north of $4 million is an easy pass. You never own up to the contract when you use your hindsightful wisdom to support his "should've resigning". But yeah, we can always just trade him! I'm not sure what's less appealing to the Pens...the 4 years or the $4.1/year they'd be paying him. And uhhh....Sundqvist was our only legitimate centre prospect? What's with the continuous over dramatization? Seriously. Another thing that I can't agree with is your insinuation that there's been no plan to replace him. Are you serious here? You should obviously sign up for the Jim Rutherford fan club. We all get instant updates almost daily with Jimmy's plan and the types of deals he has brewing. I'll look for the address and get back to you.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

And most of our arguments are more in line with people like yourself saying Bonino is an easy replacement, Wilson and a 2nd is going to get us a legitimate 3C, etc.

Signing Bonino cost is nothing, now we are likely selling off a young winger and a pick for a 3C.

You're confusing two different points:
1-The discussion of JR not yet acquiring a 3C, and how difficult it will be for him to do so
2-The discussion of whether Nick Bonino was worth keeping

They're not mutually exclusive.

Believing Nick Bonino at $4.1 million for 4 years is too much does not mean that I believe it is easy to find a 3C replacement, nor that it will be cheap to do so.

So to clarify, my stances on these two separate issues are as follows:

1-In regards to the 3C dilemma, I'm simply taking a wait and see approach to see what JR does before I evaluate whether he did a good or bad job. I'm not going to complain endlessly all summer just because he hasn't acquired a 3C yet, I'm just simply saying "let's evaluate him once we see what he ends up doing".

2-In regards to Nick Bonino, I don't think he's worth $4.1 million over 4 years. For what he brings, I think there are either cheaper options out there who can provide close to what he does, or there are more expensive options out there who bring a lot more to table than he does. Nick Bonino at $1.9 million was fantastic value. Nick Bonino at $4.1 million, for the next four seasons, IMO, is not.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Depends on the team really.
Team like NSH can easily spend the 4.1 on Bones right now. JR and PIT...not so much.

 

[Gurglesons]

Depends on the team really.
Team like NSH can easily spend the 4.1 on Bones right now. JR and PIT...not so much.

I'd rather spend 4 million on Bones then 3.25 on Reaves and Hunwick.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd rather spend 4 million on Bones then 3.25 on Reaves and Hunwick.

I don't know why you're so obsessed with making that comparison, because it's a straight up idiotic comparison. You're comparing a 3C to a 4th line winger and a bottom pair D. It's not "Bonino vs Reaves and Hunwick", it's "Bonino, Sundqvist and Ruhwedel while needing another defenseman vs Reaves, Hunwick and $3 million in cap space for a 3C".

In unrelated news, I'm glad to see that there are still Fleury fanboys active on social media. In today's example, Fleury deserves a 30 for 30 special because he waived his NMC for Vegas.

 

[Shady Machine]

Isn't the bolded pretty much what everyone has been saying to you, Shady, and that other guy about waiting to see how this plays out before flipping out?

Sure but then many of you basically suggest we can't get a better center than Bonino without paying significant assets. Both "sides" want their cake and eat it too.

I want to complain about what JR hasn't done but will rejoice if he does something better and you want to forgive JR for what he hasn't done because of what you assume he will do.

 

[Shady Machine]

The problem is that he's getting criticized right now and Bonino's name is always being brought up, but nobody here wants to own it and say "not signing Bonino was a mistake".

Not signing Bonino was a mistake as we sit here today. JR knows a lot more than I do so maybe he's got a plan that will make me look foolish. I hope so.

 

[Shady Machine]

Bonino at 4.1mm is more than I wanted to pay but I definitely would have offered him 4 years if I didn't have a deal lined up in the off season to replace him. At the time we let him walk I thought JR had a trade up his sleeve. Now that it's September and there doesn't appear to be anything in sight, I'm happy to declare not resigning him was a mistake. If that makes me look foolish in a few months, so be it (and I'll be jumping for joy anyway), but you want someone to take a firm stand, here it is.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't know why you're so obsessed with making that comparison, because it's a straight up idiotic comparison. You're comparing a 3C to a 4th line winger and a bottom pair D. It's not "Bonino vs Reaves and Hunwick", it's "Bonino, Sundqvist and Ruhwedel while needing another defenseman vs Reaves, Hunwick and $3 million in cap space for a 3C".

In unrelated news, I'm glad to see that there are still Fleury fanboys active on social media. In today's example, Fleury deserves a 30 for 30 special because he waived his NMC for Vegas.

Right but the argument here is that a Hunwick type of D is easier and cheaper to find at the deadline than a Bonino caliber center.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Right but the argument here is that a Hunwick type of D is easier and cheaper to find at the deadline than a Bonino caliber center.

But that's a nonsensical argument because, like I said, it was never Hunwick or Bonino. I also don't think it's correct to say Bonino and Ruhwedel would have been the better decision before seeing who the Penguins actually get for their 3C spot.

 

[Jacob]

The 4th line is not a concern. Would anyone have predicted 2 summers ago that a 40 year old Cullen, Kuhnhackl & a run down Fehr would be good enough to win a Cup? We have a lot of options. Something will stick.

3C is the concern and primary (if not only) focus right now.

 

[SCPens]

Sure but then many of you basically suggest we can't get a better center than Bonino without paying significant assets. Both "sides" want their cake and eat it too.

I want to complain about what JR hasn't done but will rejoice if he does something better and you want to forgive JR for what he hasn't done because of what you assume he will do.

I don't think everyone's flipping out. The Pens currently have the forward depth to make a deal including atleast one roster player without affecting the overall number. And then when you look at the possibility of either or both of Aston-Reece or Sprong pushing their way onto the roster that presents even more trade options. So in a nutshell, I'm in favour of trading away some of our roster players if it means we're not resigning Bonino at $4.1 million/yr over 4 years.