Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Ogrezilla]

I think there will be amove either after camp when teams are trying to finalize rosters for the regular season or a couple months in... the deadline will be there to fix it if it doesnt work

I bet we do both. Either we get a 3C early in the year then upgrade 4C at the deadline, or we bring in a stopgap 3C early who slides to 4C when we bring in a legit 3C closer to the deadline.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think there will be amove either after camp when teams are trying to finalize rosters for the regular season or a couple months in... the deadline will be there to fix it if it doesnt work

I could see the Penguins claiming someone like Laughton off waivers and seeing how he does in the 3C spot. He put up 21 points in 71 games in 2015-2016 while really not playing that much per game (only 10:26 a game). His ES points/60 that year was really good, since all 21 of his points were at ES and he only played 9:38 a game at ES (1.84 points/60).

 

[Malkinstheman]

Due to his pedigree alone, I think theres no chance Laughton falls to us on waivers. A team starving for literally anything (COL,NJ) will pick him up.

 

[DesertPenguin]

You're telling me that this lineup from Oct - Jan 1 is crippling the season?:

Sheary Crosby Hornqvist
Hagelin Malkin Kessel
Rust Guentzel Sprong
Wilson Rowney Reaves

Then Jan 1 comes and we acquire a 3C:

Guentzel Crosby Sheary
Hagelin Malkin Kessel
Rust 3C Hornqvist
Wilson Rowney Reaves

Cause that's a possible scenario based on who is on the roster right now.

I am almost positive that won't happen cause JR will get a 3C before opening night IMO.

That works, but I think it ultimately hurts Guentzel's development to stick him at 3C for half the year when he could be with Sid. Those two had insane chemistry last year and I don't think you want to mess with that if you can help it.

 

[Dawkins]

I bet we do both. Either we get a 3C early in the year then upgrade 4C at the deadline, or we bring in a stopgap 3C early who slides to 4C when we bring in a legit 3C closer to the deadline.

My gut, which incidentally is considerable, agrees with this.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

That works, but I think it ultimately hurts Guentzel's development to stick him at 3C for half the year when he could be with Sid. Those two had insane chemistry last year and I don't think you want to mess with that if you can help it.

I guess that's a possibility. I just don't think playing Guentzel at center would... A. Hurt his development and/or a chemistry with Sid... B. Be a bad thing for him to do since it would give him more value as a wing and center option.

I'm a big proponent of Jake learning the NHL game at center. He can def play top line wing, if he could add middle 6 center to that, I think that increases his development and value.

Mind you I still want him as Sid's LW. But I think they should have him learn the center position at the NHL level too.

 

[Shady Machine]

You're telling me that this lineup from Oct - Jan 1 is crippling the season?:

Sheary Crosby Hornqvist
Hagelin Malkin Kessel
Rust Guentzel Sprong
Wilson Rowney Reaves

Then Jan 1 comes and we acquire a 3C:

Guentzel Crosby Sheary
Hagelin Malkin Kessel
Rust 3C Hornqvist
Wilson Rowney Reaves

Cause that's a possible scenario based on who is on the roster right now.

I am almost positive that won't happen cause JR will get a 3C before opening night IMO.

Did I say it was crippling? If they are committed to trying out Jake at 3C, I could be okay with that for a while. I just don't get the sense they want to do that.

 

[Shady Machine]

Since a couple of people have harped on that one small point of mine, I should clarify since I obviously wasn't clear enough.

I was just using the TDL as the "point of no return" when all criticisms of him standing still and not addressing the 3C spot would be valid, since at that point he simply can't do anything to address it.

I wasn't actually suggesting he should wait until the TDL or that I don't mind if he waits that long. I was just saying that at that point, there would be zero way to defend his inaction since he literally can't fix the 3C spot after that.

Fair clarification. Thanks!

 

[Riptide]

Sundqvist was no more of a potential 4th line center than Rowney is. I really wish people would stop acting like he's anything more than a waiver caliber forward right now. Sundqvist as the 4C would probably have been worse than Rowney as the 4C. I genuinely doubt the Penguins would have had Sundqvist to open next season, because he'd almost definitely be put on waivers and would most likely get claimed off waivers.

The salary difference between Reaves and Archibald or Sundqvist is negligible. It's less than $600k a season, which is the difference between the Penguins having $2 million to spend on a 3C and the Penguins having $2.5 million to spend on a 3C. The Reaves trade had borderline no impact on the Penguins center situation. They got rid of a player who wasn't better than any of the other young centers in the organization and wouldn't have been the 4C over Rowney and brought in a winger who makes an insignificant amount of money more than the guy they traded for him.

Even if he's better... it's still not much of a loss, as the difference is likely minimal.

 

[Peat]

I bet we do both. Either we get a 3C early in the year then upgrade 4C at the deadline, or we bring in a stopgap 3C early who slides to 4C when we bring in a legit 3C closer to the deadline.

This, barring v good years from both Rowney and Blueger.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

Did I say it was crippling? If they are committed to trying out Jake at 3C, I could be okay with that for a while. I just don't get the sense they want to do that.

Maybe I just read what you posted incorrectly. But it sounded like you were saying the roster as it is today puts a lot of extra minutes out there for Sid and Geno to play and that if they don't play those minutes they would lose more. Maybe you were just saying that if Rowney is the 3C that would be the case.

My point is that, no matter what, this team can survive the first 3 months just fine and even lower Sid and Geno's minutes slightly, even staying pat.

You say that you get the sense they don't want JG at center. I have the same sense that they don't want Rowney at 3C and JR will make a move for a 3C.

 

[Shady Machine]

Maybe I just read what you posted incorrectly. But it sounded like you were saying the roster as it is today puts a lot of extra minutes out there for Sid and Geno to play and that if they don't play those minutes they would lose more. Maybe you were just saying that if Rowney is the 3C that would be the case.

My point is that, no matter what, this team can survive the first 3 months just fine and even lower Sid and Geno's minutes slightly, even staying pat.

You say that you get the sense they don't want JG at center. I have the same sense that they don't want Rowney at 3C and JR will make a move for a 3C.

I didn't use the word crippling, but yeah I agree if Rowney and McClement are the centers, then that does tax Sid and Geno more than I want. To your point, Sully can get creative if he puts Jake at center, at least for a portion of the time.

There is a difference between surviving and something being a detriment to the long term. That's the point I am trying to get across. If JR addressed the 3C or at least has a solid stop gap by Thanksgiving (picking that out of thin air but seems like a reasonable period), I am a-okay.

 

[Shady Machine]

Even if he's better... it's still not much of a loss, as the difference is likely minimal.

Minimal difference but could be bigger if someone gets injured. The point is we lost depth at a really important position to bring in a unique but unnecessary skillset at a position of strength.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Minimal difference but could be bigger if someone gets injured. The point is we lost depth at a really important position to bring in a unique but unnecessary skillset at a position of strength.

Here's the thing though, do you think there's a significant difference between Blueger and Sundqvist at this point? I honestly don't think so, I'd honestly argue that Blueger is better than Sundqvist or at least very close to Sundqvist currently. The Penguins lost someone who'd probably be their 5th center on the depth chart, and that's with assuming McClement doesn't sign, Rowney is the 3C (aka they don't trade for another center) and Sundqvist would be above McKegg. Saying Reaves was unnecessary is fair, acting like Sundqvist is anything more than a marginal loss isn't fair.

I mean, let's look at the Penguins current center depth beyond Crosby and Malkin:

Rowney: 7 points in 27 NHL games, 21 points in 26 AHL games last year
McKegg: 7 points in 46 NHL games, 4 points in 7 AHL games last year
Blueger: 31 points in 54 AHL games (with no PP time and having extremely tough defensive minutes)
Johnson: 37 points in 42 NCHC games (was called the ZAR of next offseason, put up those numbers as a sophomore)
Dea: 34 points in 73 AHL games
Sundqvist: 0 points in 10 NHL games, 46 points in 63 AHL games (while getting PP minutes)

Is Sundqvist really above anyone in that group? I'd honestly say no. I'd definitely rank him below Rowney, I'd probably rank him below Blueger based on how each player was used and I think Johnson will pass up Sundqvist this season as well (if the hype is true that he would have been the ZAR of the 2018 offseason, the Penguins got a gem with him).

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

I didn't use the word crippling, but yeah I agree if Rowney and McClement are the centers, then that does tax Sid and Geno more than I want. To your point, Sully can get creative if he puts Jake at center, at least for a portion of the time.

There is a difference between surviving and something being a detriment to the long term. That's the point I am trying to get across. If JR addressed the 3C or at least has a solid stop gap by Thanksgiving (picking that out of thin air but seems like a reasonable period), I am a-okay.

This seems like a reasonable take. I'd be a little disappointed with JR if he doesn't have a 3C by then and its clear we need an upgrade over whoever wins that spot. I firmly believe someone legit will be traded for before the season starts.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

Minimal difference but could be bigger if someone gets injured. The point is we lost depth at a really important position to bring in a unique but unnecessary skillset at a position of strength.

I think the biggest thing with Reaves is how Sully uses him... If Reaves is clearly not playing as well as a Kuhn or Archie, does he still get a jersey night in and out? Or can he be held to the same standard as a "normal" player?

I have no problem with Reaves if he basically is a more disciplined version of Tom Wilson. Defensemen don't like getting checked into the boards 8 times a game by someone with Reaves size and speed. That's where I think he is most effective, forechecking d-men and on the boards... If he's just Sestito on steroids he shouldn't get a jersey over a better player. As long as his play is held accountable like everyone else, I'm fine with him as a part of the 13-14 forwards on the roster and think he is a good addition.

 

[Riptide]

Is Sundqvist really above anyone in that group? I'd honestly say no. I'd definitely rank him below Rowney, I'd probably rank him below Blueger based on how each player was used and I think Johnson will pass up Sundqvist this season as well (if the hype is true that he would have been the ZAR of the 2018 offseason, the Penguins got a gem with him).

I'd rank him ahead of everyone but Rowney - if only based on his NHL play over the last 2 years. But then again, I don't think the difference is all that significant.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Any talk about how we'd fare with our current bottom 6 centers is just so much bleating that's going to be moot before the month is out.

But it is August and rumours are even more sparse than the crickets and tumbleweeds we usually get this time of year, so I guess we gotta gab about something.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I want Gregg McKegg to make the team as the 3C because his name rhymes.

 

[theicebox]

I want Gregg McKegg to make the team as the 3C because his name rhymes.

 

[Pete Gas]

If Sid or Geno get injured early in the season this could end up being a 1 line team for a while

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

In what world is 25 points for Reaves remotely possible?

The same world that had Jake freaking guentzel lead the playoffs in goals as a rookie. If anyone had Sid that before the playoffs, they would have been laughed at.

Do I think Reaves will hit 25pts? Probably not. Is it possible? Maybe.

My bigger point was.. Maybe to see what happens before pissing all over every damn thing. The season is still a month away. Rosters haven't been finalized. Camp fleshes out a lot.

As much as Cole and have been at odds, for Christ sake, enjoy the moment. 4 finals in 10 years. 3 cups, with a back to back. A pretty good roster to try to defend and go with a 3peat.

Is everything all sunshine and roses? Nope. There are holes in the roster. But enjoy the now a bit and worry about it in a few weeks.

Also this isn't aimed at you. You are without a doubt one of the best posters on here. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are complaining about every move made and not made.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

If Sid or Geno get injured early in the season this could end up being a 1 line team for a while

They'd still have Kessel, Guentzel and the other wingers.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If Sid or Geno get injured early in the season this could end up being a 1 line team for a while

If Sid or Geno get injured early in the season this would have been a 1-line team even if they re-signed Bonino since Bonino's invisible offensively until around March.

 

[captain cubicle]

Here's the thing though, do you think there's a significant difference between Blueger and Sundqvist at this point? I honestly don't think so, I'd honestly argue that Blueger is better than Sundqvist or at least very close to Sundqvist currently. The Penguins lost someone who'd probably be their 5th center on the depth chart, and that's with assuming McClement doesn't sign, Rowney is the 3C (aka they don't trade for another center) and Sundqvist would be above McKegg. Saying Reaves was unnecessary is fair, acting like Sundqvist is anything more than a marginal loss isn't fair.

I mean, let's look at the Penguins current center depth beyond Crosby and Malkin:

Rowney: 7 points in 27 NHL games, 21 points in 26 AHL games last year
McKegg: 7 points in 46 NHL games, 4 points in 7 AHL games last year
Blueger: 31 points in 54 AHL games (with no PP time and having extremely tough defensive minutes)
Johnson: 37 points in 42 NCHC games (was called the ZAR of next offseason, put up those numbers as a sophomore)
Dea: 34 points in 73 AHL games
Sundqvist: 0 points in 10 NHL games, 46 points in 63 AHL games (while getting PP minutes)

Is Sundqvist really above anyone in that group? I'd honestly say no. I'd definitely rank him below Rowney, I'd probably rank him below Blueger based on how each player was used and I think Johnson will pass up Sundqvist this season as well (if the hype is true that he would have been the ZAR of the 2018 offseason, the Penguins got a gem with him).

I dont think sundqvist was anything special but he was a center with NHL experience which is more than can be said for most of these low grade prospects people seem to think will crack the line up. I dont think a single one of those guys with the exception of maybe ZAR has much of a chance of being better than a 4c in their career.

At this point there is/was no internal solution at center. That meant it was all the more pressing Rutherford do something. Sundqvist was a depth option on a team that has none. No big loss but why give that away for Reeves when we are flush on bottom 6 wingers. Not only that downgrade a pick as well. That 600k puts us at 3.9MM within 200k of Bones salary. Maybe with bones signed we approach the Dumo and Sheary deals differently and save a bit more and we can fit it all in.

Its not major but its a mis-step and it just seemed pointless. I think it deserves criticism unless he pulls something together. Its not a problem that JR wants to wait and see until Sid and or Geno go down and were watching a center group made up of something like...

Guentzel
Rowney
Scrub
Scrub

I'm sure we make the playoff I have no doubt. I just think were rolling the dice that the perfect move comes along. Maybe it doesn't and due to injury we under perform. Now the pressure is on JR to make a bad trade at the TDL and who knows what happens or what we give up.