Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[stepdad gaary]

So you have no problems with the 3C right now? Technically we could sign Tanner Glass and you wouldnt get upset because it's not s problem yet. You are just as shortsighted saying you don't care until it's a problem.

If you see a kitchen fire in your house are you going to sit there until half of the house is on fire before you do something?

there is no problem with 3C right now. Not even when the season starts will there be a problem even if they dont add anyone to the roster. Until it starts damaging their chances for a stanley cup, its not a problem. Probably wont matter til january tbh. No use getting so worked up about it now.

 

[BHD]

It's neat that they repeated as champs by relying (probably overusing) their top guns, but you can't count on that every year. The third line was sub-par, and the centre (Bonino in this case) had a lot to do with it. They can get by with Rowney or McClement on the 4th line, but they'll be run over (possession wise) with both in the lineup. That's why I refuse to accept a scenario where management doesn't add somebody.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

My bet is still JR looking at Bjugstad and preying on their internal cap.


Also, did I leave the oven on?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bjugstad would be an extremely interesting target to look at, but I'm not sure the Penguins have the cap space to afford him at a little over $4 million AAV. I'm also not sure how well he'd fit in this system, people complain all of the time about how poor of a fit Maatta is but Bjugstad is in the same boat. He also hasn't been that strong of an even strength player for a couple of years now, he only had 30 ES points in his last 122 games. Even not including his atrocious season last year, he only had 19 ES points in 67 games and a ES points/60 of 1.33 the year before.

 

[Shady Machine]

"More likely to lose"

That's true, but the team is still really damn good in that scenario. You can play Crosby and Malkin the same ice time as what they got last year (say 20 for Crosby and 19 for Malkin) and then play Rowney 11 minutes a night and McClement 10 minutes a night. That's also the worst case scenario.

Blah. Again, you think more highly of Rowney and McClement than I do. Plus, I'd really prefer them playing closer to 18 minutes, but I suppose that's a nice to have.

I don't think it's a crippling issue, by any stretch, I just really want to protect our horses. For as much depth we have on the wings, this team still goes as Sid/Geno go.

 

[Shady Machine]

Bjugstad would be an extremely interesting target to look at, but I'm not sure the Penguins have the cap space to afford him at a little over $4 million AAV. I'm also not sure how well he'd fit in this system, people complain all of the time about how poor of a fit Maatta is but Bjugstad is in the same boat.

Big difference in 1 forward not being a speedster vs a top 4 dman lumbering around. Surround Bjugstad with 2 speedy wingers and I think the line would be very good.

However, I think it's a fair point to question whether Bjugstad is the best fit it you are ponying up serious assets for him.

 

[Shrimper]

That latest tweet by the Penguins makes me think a Hornqvist extension is coming.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Big difference in 1 forward not being a speedster vs a top 4 dman lumbering around. Surround Bjugstad with 2 speedy wingers and I think the line would be very good.

However, I think it's a fair point to question whether Bjugstad is the best fit it you are ponying up serious assets for him.

I talked myself out of Bjugstad when looking at his stats closer

Outside of his atrocious year last year, he had a pretty awful season at ES in 2015-2016. You have to go back to 2014-2015 to find a season where he put up good ES numbers, and that's him putting up a 1.88 points/60 (worse than what Wilson did last year) while playing as a top-6 center. I would have just re-signed Bonino if the option was trading for Bjugstad or re-signing Bonino.



This was the tweet, I don't know why you think there would be an Hornqvist extension because of this

 

[ColePens]

That latest tweet by the Penguins makes me think a Hornqvist extension is coming.

Do post... id be ecstatic

 

[Shrimper]

I talked myself out of Bjugstad when looking at his stats closer

Outside of his atrocious year last year, he had a pretty awful season at ES in 2015-2016. You have to go back to 2014-2015 to find a season where he put up good ES numbers, and that's him putting up a 1.88 points/60 (worse than what Wilson did last year) while playing as a top-6 center. I would have just re-signed Bonino if the option was trading for Bjugstad or re-signing Bonino.



This was the tweet, I don't know why you think there would be an Hornqvist extension because of this

Well, it's a bit of a random tweet to post isn't it? I know we won the cup but it seemed strange to me to highlight Hornqvist's input. His number doesn't match up to the days remaining till the seasons start either, as they sometimes tweet.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well, it's a bit of a random tweet to post isn't it? I know we won the cup but it seemed strange to me to highlight Hornqvist's input. His number doesn't match up to the days remaining till the seasons start either, as they sometimes tweet.

Both of these were tweeted in like the last week.

 

[Shrimper]

Both of these were tweeted in like the last week.

The first one makes some sense at least though as it is [x] days since [event]

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Bjugstad would be an extremely interesting target to look at, but I'm not sure the Penguins have the cap space to afford him at a little over $4 million AAV. I'm also not sure how well he'd fit in this system, people complain all of the time about how poor of a fit Maatta is but Bjugstad is in the same boat.

They'd need to send cap out or have a desperate team retain salary (doubtful). It could be a case of them getting a steal just because Florida is in a terrible position with their internal cap (if true), him having a bad season and so far not being able to move Demers. He also might, you know, be available, JR wouldn't be the only GM who needs to get something done and Talon isn't certifiable.

The thing with Maatta not fitting the system is fixating in footspeed. His skating doesn't fit the system well but his IQ and passing do. There's an issue with his skating but it's not the only part of players fitting in the system. Bjugstad moves well for his size and he's got size on his side. The concern with him is his injury history and how that effects his game.

Bonino wasn't perfect fit for the system, Hornqvist isn't a perfect fit for the system, Maatta isn't a perfect fit for the system. Good luck having everyone be a perfect fit.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I think thats one point of emphasis that JR's looking for in his C search.
Eventually he wants a swift skating pivot locked in for longer term.

But i think in the meantime, he'll just look to plug holes with the cheapest to get good C(PTO to waiver wire to trade) that can help and doesn't lock in JR to anything. Guy thats either dirt cheap on a 1 or 2 yr deal etc. Like you get one and the search continues.

He's also gotta see what he has in camp. From McKegg to Bleugers, Simon, Johnson. All can potentially play C and if they look good enough, it means JR doesn't have to plug holes via the 2nd paragraph^ to start out.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

Okay sure, you can do that and then your team is more likely to lose. I think Rowney at 3C and McClement at 4C is a pretty bad solution. You can survive with it, but in my view, it requires a much heavier load on Sid and Geno. You obviously disagree.

You're telling me that this lineup from Oct - Jan 1 is crippling the season?:

Sheary Crosby Hornqvist
Hagelin Malkin Kessel
Rust Guentzel Sprong
Wilson Rowney Reaves

Then Jan 1 comes and we acquire a 3C:

Guentzel Crosby Sheary
Hagelin Malkin Kessel
Rust 3C Hornqvist
Wilson Rowney Reaves

Cause that's a possible scenario based on who is on the roster right now.

I am almost positive that won't happen cause JR will get a 3C before opening night IMO.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Haha right now a kitchen towel just caught of fire. You can put it out with a bottle of water. But we don't have the bottle of water, we have a cap full of water in Carter Rowney and Jay McClement.

But what we really need is a working sink to solve the problem for good. We don't want to settle for a bottle of water just to put the fire out for today, because we might need that money to fix the sink.

Fire is just a bad analogy for this because a fire spreads. This problem isn't going to get worse if we wait. It's the same problem today as it will be in a month or 3 months.

As for the actual issue, there's no reason to settle for whatever we can get now if it's not actually going to be a real fix, just like it wasn't worth overpaying any of the free agents available just because they were available. We want a good solution, not the most convenient solution. If we can get the right guy today, that would be great. Do that. But I don't want to bring in some bum just so the line-up looks better in October. I'd rather get the right guy in March than the wrong guy in September.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You are giving JR until the deadline to find a 3C? Damn that's generous.

Since a couple of people have harped on that one small point of mine, I should clarify since I obviously wasn't clear enough.

I was just using the TDL as the "point of no return" when all criticisms of him standing still and not addressing the 3C spot would be valid, since at that point he simply can't do anything to address it.

I wasn't actually suggesting he should wait until the TDL or that I don't mind if he waits that long. I was just saying that at that point, there would be zero way to defend his inaction since he literally can't fix the 3C spot after that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I like the concept of Guentzel at center because he's a really smart player who can drive the play on his line, plus it gets Sprong into the NHL to start next year, but that's not realistically what the Penguins are going to run with. I find it a lot more likely Rowney is the 3C to open up next year than Guentzel is the 3C.

 

[madinsomniac]

I talked myself out of Bjugstad when looking at his stats closer

Outside of his atrocious year last year, he had a pretty awful season at ES in 2015-2016. You have to go back to 2014-2015 to find a season where he put up good ES numbers, and that's him putting up a 1.88 points/60 (worse than what Wilson did last year) while playing as a top-6 center. I would have just re-signed Bonino if the option was trading for Bjugstad or re-signing Bonino.



This was the tweet, I don't know why you think there would be an Hornqvist extension because of this

Bjugstad actually is probably my top target outside of some total #1 guy comming here with low asset loss and cap hit... His situation is extrememly Shultz like... two years of poor performance on a totally morale deprived team going nowhere, proof of high end NHL talent. Remember bonino wasnt a burner, and they got him to play a bit differently here than in his previous stops too... for what we need at #C he could give us with tremendous upside... i like him more than Spooner or AA as a gamble... and ultimately I want a guy who isnt making 6 mil per but has the potential to be worth close to that

 

[ColePens]

The first one makes some sense at least though as it is [x] days since [event]

You may be reaching, but I hope you are correct.

 

[captain cubicle]

I guess I'm just not confident something amazing will be available that will be cheaper than we could have kept Bonino for. I mean we could have dumped Haglin for a 5th rounder and fit Bonino under the cap. Cullen still gone but you dont have this center issue. Now if we have to trade more than Haglin for a player no better than Bonino I just feel like JR created an unnecessary situation.

The Reeves trade factors into this too. I still dont understand why that was a priority before the center issue was fixed. 1.2MM for a 4th liner when we have cheaper options doesnt make sense. Much less downgrading a pick and sending a potential 4th line center the other way. Just seems like an unnecessary complication. At

At this point JR needs to deliver before the TDL or he just messed up what could have been a really simple retool with a loss of a bottom 6 winger and a downgrade at 4C.

 

[madinsomniac]

The other thing to remember is that a lot of teams need centers, but they are probably hung up on one or two high end guys for now... this is like every trade deadline... dominos waiting to fall... one of the side will eventually blink and set the market... either a team like montreal will overpay or, what often happens, a high end second teir guy that has to be moved by his club will get dumped and then more stuff will happen around that...

the great thing is we need a 3c, not a 1c or a 2C... this kind of make us a great landing spot for one of those high upside guys that a team needing a stud up top might not wish to gamble on before the Duchene and Taveres situations are played out

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

I like the concept of Guentzel at center because he's a really smart player who can drive the play on his line, plus it gets Sprong into the NHL to start next year, but that's not realistically what the Penguins are going to run with. I find it a lot more likely Rowney is the 3C to open up next year than Guentzel is the 3C.

No I agree, but the poster made it sound like we couldn't possibly put a lineup out there from Oct - Jan that could buy time to get a 3C without playing Sid and Geno over 18 mins a night.

Bottom line is, we can - even if we do nothing with 3C before the season starts - put together 3 scoring lines and limit Sid and Geno if we wanted to.

People saying its unrealistic to put Jake at center (because Sully doesn't want to) are correct, but I think its just as unrealistic to think they don't bring in a 3C before opening night.

 

[madinsomniac]

Since a couple of people have harped on that one small point of mine, I should clarify since I obviously wasn't clear enough.

I was just using the TDL as the "point of no return" when all criticisms of him standing still and not addressing the 3C spot would be valid, since at that point he simply can't do anything to address it.

I wasn't actually suggesting he should wait until the TDL or that I don't mind if he waits that long. I was just saying that at that point, there would be zero way to defend his inaction since he literally can't fix the 3C spot after that.

I think there will be amove either after camp when teams are trying to finalize rosters for the regular season or a couple months in... the deadline will be there to fix it if it doesnt work

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sundqvist was no more of a potential 4th line center than Rowney is. I really wish people would stop acting like he's anything more than a waiver caliber forward right now. Sundqvist as the 4C would probably have been worse than Rowney as the 4C. I genuinely doubt the Penguins would have had Sundqvist to open next season, because he'd almost definitely be put on waivers and would most likely get claimed off waivers.

The salary difference between Reaves and Archibald or Sundqvist is negligible. It's less than $600k a season, which is the difference between the Penguins having $2 million to spend on a 3C and the Penguins having $2.5 million to spend on a 3C. The Reaves trade had borderline no impact on the Penguins center situation. They got rid of a player who wasn't better than any of the other young centers in the organization and wouldn't have been the 4C over Rowney and brought in a winger who makes an insignificant amount of money more than the guy they traded for him.