Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Sidney the Kidney]

I love the Pens. I have such high hopes because we have 2 generational players. I feel like Shero pissed away years of their careers. Rutherford has done a fantastic job. I think it's the people around here and their opinions that set me off more than Rutherford. This laid back attitude for the 3C gets old. i feel like Jim could do almost anything and half of the board would praise him.

I just hate what the team has done this summer. Reaves is a garbage player. Our centers suck compared to last season.

I just see the team as regressing quite a bit after this summer and that takes me back to the Shero years. He used to get a free pass for years for literally any awful decision he made.

The bolded is your problem then, because you seem to think people on this forum are 100% on board with having Carter Rowney as 3C come playoff time.

The difference is the majority of us aren't going to throw a fit about it IN THE SUMMER TIME. If at the end of the trade deadline, JR still hasn't properly filled the 3C spot? Sure, then it's time to criticize his inaction. But not now, not when every comment he's made is he's working on bringing in a 3C.

 

[Pens x]

Your answer proves the point you are not actually in this for anything other than to bait. If that were true you would really enjoy 2 cups in a row AND you probably would have posted when we won.

Eventually you end up shooting yourself in the foot when you try to toss out too much bait. It gives it away.

I watched every second of the playoffs just like everyone else. I'm not sure how I'm baiting because I have high expectations for this team. Do you want me to be a robot like a lot of fans here and just agree with everything the Pens do?

The Pens have a core to win again next year. Management has not helped or improved this team at all so far this summer.

 

[Peat]

Who knows, maybe if he read what was actually being said, he'd be a little less annoyed...

... or maybe Cole is right. Oh well.

 

[ColePens]

Who knows, maybe if he read what was actually being said, he'd be a little less annoyed...

... or maybe Cole is right. Oh well.

It's not about reading. I've been here long enough to know that. It's all about trying to get under skin of people and that's it. "Hey I love the Pens! I just forgot to post during the playoffs and only came in to say negative stuff then really brought it after they go back to back."

Actions >>> words. Oh well. We have time to kill.

 

[Pens x]

The bolded is your problem then, because you seem to think people on this forum are 100% on board with having Carter Rowney as 3C come playoff time.

The difference is the majority of us aren't going to throw a fit about it IN THE SUMMER TIME. If at the end of the trade deadline, JR still hasn't properly filled the 3C spot? Sure, then it's time to criticize his inaction. But not now, not when every comment he's made is he's working on bringing in a 3C.

Oh I agree. Again, I just don't want to address this glaring hole just before the deadline. Our fantastic fourth line from last year is no more. Now people are fine with waiting until the deadline to address the 3C?

Our fourth line will likely struggle to score. Malkin will likely get injured. I don't want this to drag on I until the deadline. And yes I know, one of our mediocre centers could step up. I hope one does. That'd be great.

 

[Pens x]

I will pipe down. I'm honestly not trying to ruffle feathers here.

LGP

 

[Allie Kitsune]

It's not about reading. I've been here long enough to know that. It's all about trying to get under skin of people and that's it. "Hey I love the Pens! I just forgot to post during the playoffs and only came in to say negative stuff then really brought it after they go back to back."

Actions >>> words. Oh well. We have time to kill.

With some people, it's less about that, and more about the incessant need to prove that one is "smart" by jumping out ahead of everyone else with the bitterness and negativity so one can be the one who says "See? I've been saying this ALL ALONG, BEFORE ANYBODY ELSE, but did any of you listen to me? NOOOOOOOOO!"

Some people just live to say "I told you so".

 

[ColePens]

With some people, it's less about that, and more about the incessant need to prove that one is "smart" by jumping out ahead of everyone else with the bitterness and negativity so one can be the one who says "See? I've been saying this ALL ALONG, BEFORE ANYBODY ELSE, but did any of you listen to me? NOOOOOOOOO!"

Some people just live to say "I told you so".

Fair, and good, point. That stuff is nonsense. It's never one thing that makes a coach or GM bad. Bylsma was an evolution of stubbornness causing him to falter as a coach. That's where Sully has had time prior to head coaching again to really jump into the culture, x's and o's, technology, etc. of coaching. What he struggled with in the past is something he grew to make his strength.

JR could end up being terrible in the next couple years, but let's at least let it progress to that point. Sully could lose the team down the road. Let's discuss it as it progresses. Sully could become the next Bowman. Let's let it progress first.

If I could say one thing in my near 70k posts that people remember, it's simply to enjoy the current moment. Enjoy now. Stop worrying about the past or future. Enjoy now. Back to back Cups and 3x Stanley Cup champs in the Sid/Geno era. It's great. These things will not happen a lot in your life. Take it in.

 

[Gurglesons]

Fair, and good, point. That stuff is nonsense. It's never one thing that makes a coach or GM bad. Bylsma was an evolution of stubbornness causing him to falter as a coach. That's where Sully has had time prior to head coaching again to really jump into the culture, x's and o's, technology, etc. of coaching. What he struggled with in the past is something he grew to make his strength.

JR could end up being terrible in the next couple years, but let's at least let it progress to that point. Sully could lose the team down the road. Let's discuss it as it progresses. Sully could become the next Bowman. Let's let it progress first.

If I could say one thing in my near 70k posts that people remember, it's simply to enjoy the current moment. Enjoy now. Stop worrying about the past or future. Enjoy now. Back to back Cups and 3x Stanley Cup champs in the Sid/Geno era. It's great. These things will not happen a lot in your life. Take it in.

That is a fine perspective, but you realize you are being critical of people talking about the future in a thread that is designed to analyze our cap, future moves and the impact signings have in relation to future moves, right?

Like this criticism of a few of us saying that making moves we believe are poor in a thread for being critical of moves is not insane, pessimistic, or troubling.

Some of just don't think everything is roses and want to see us win another cup and believe some moves this summer are foolish and will ultimately effect that.

 

[ColePens]

That is a fine perspective, but you realize you are being critical of people talking about the future in a thread that is designed to analyze our cap, future moves and the impact signings have in relation to future moves, right?

Like this criticism of a few of us saying that making moves we believe are poor in a thread for being critical of moves is not insane, pessimistic, or troubling.

Some of just don't think everything is roses and want to see us win another cup and believe some moves this summer are foolish and will ultimately effect that.

I think it's quite telling when certain users are nowhere to be found when we win a Cup.... but everywhere to be found when it's time to complain/*****/bait.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think it's quite telling when certain users are nowhere to be found when we win a Cup.... but everywhere to be found when it's time to complain/*****/bait.

Is that directed towards me, because I've actually been at two of the games in the last two Stanley Cup Finals instead of on a message board playing a holier than thou act because a user disagrees with the fact you think we had a great summer.

 

[Riptide]

Based on my viewing of him?

I think you need a new viewing. Everything I've seen says he'll be an absolute stud as a #3C, and everything we're looking for.

 

[Rufus]

Fair, and good, point. That stuff is nonsense. It's never one thing that makes a coach or GM bad. Bylsma was an evolution of stubbornness causing him to falter as a coach. That's where Sully has had time prior to head coaching again to really jump into the culture, x's and o's, technology, etc. of coaching. What he struggled with in the past is something he grew to make his strength.

JR could end up being terrible in the next couple years, but let's at least let it progress to that point. Sully could lose the team down the road. Let's discuss it as it progresses. Sully could become the next Bowman. Let's let it progress first.

If I could say one thing in my near 70k posts that people remember, it's simply to enjoy the current moment. Enjoy now. Stop worrying about the past or future. Enjoy now. Back to back Cups and 3x Stanley Cup champs in the Sid/Geno era. It's great. These things will not happen a lot in your life. Take it in.

Our mod, everybody
Last paragraph made me tear up

 

[Fraction Jackson]

I don't think JR is going to be shoehorned into one player. He'll be willing to move the necessary assets to fill our need.

I still think we need an offensive guy to replace the combo of Bones/Cullen we lost. Especially if we're not upgrading on Cullen. You can coach Rowney to take tough D zone starts away from the 3C.

Not saying it's gotta be Duchene or RNH. But someone who can get Phil the puck and make 3 potent lines again.

Being competitive and legit going for a third Cup are two different things. I'm cool with the former since it's unrealistic to expect the latter. But I think JR's waiting game is to make this team a clear cut favorite.

Sobotka's last season in the NHL before he left for the KHL, he put up 33 in 61, which isn't exactly far off Bonino standards.

I don't know if he's available or what our other options would be, but I do think he'd be a great fit if he is tradeable.

 

[Riptide]

If I could say one thing in my near 70k posts that people remember, it's simply to enjoy the current moment. Enjoy now. Stop worrying about the past or future. Enjoy now. Back to back Cups and 3x Stanley Cup champs in the Sid/Geno era. It's great. These things will not happen a lot in your life. Take it in.

Not to mention 4 trips to the finals in 10 years. Absolutely spoiled.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think you need a new viewing. Everything I've seen says he'll be an absolute stud as a #3C, and everything we're looking for.

Yeah, if we could get Sobotka on that deal I'd buy a Rutherford jersey.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

For me JR has bought himself a free pass this season. If he blows it and they never address the 3C position by the trade deadline I'll be annoyed. I am not a fan of the Reaves trade, but I also thought we overpaid for Hagelin and didn't totally understand the Matt Cullen signing. JR has a better pulse on the team than I think he does. Based on insight we've been lucky enough to have on this board JR battled with HCMJ to play Sprong and sit Scuderi. The guy has won 3 cups and turned us into a dynasty in 3 seasons. Let's get to March and then take him to task. He's earned it

 

[Riptide]

The bolded is your problem then, because you seem to think people on this forum are 100% on board with having Carter Rowney as 3C come playoff time.

The difference is the majority of us aren't going to throw a fit about it IN THE SUMMER TIME. If at the end of the trade deadline, JR still hasn't properly filled the 3C spot? Sure, then it's time to criticize his inaction. But not now, not when every comment he's made is he's working on bringing in a 3C.

I'm probably one of the more lenient guys on here when it comes to JR and finding a #3C. But I'm sure as **** not giving him till the TD to deal with the issue. If he were to acquire Fehr (or someone else) on waivers or wherever and they were not awful... then maybe I could handle waiting to the TD. But if we're running Rowney or any of our WBS rookies, his leash is very very short. IF it's manageable, then I'll wait. But the odds of Rowney and anyone from WBS or Guentzel being able to do the job in a manor I'm willing to put up with is (statistically) a longshot.

I've tried to put a number of games on this, and I can't. Basically, I think if we don't have someone by the start of the season and are going with a waiver pickup or the rookies/JG, then we'll know when it's time. And when that happens, JR had better make a move. If that's 15 games in, then it's 15 games in. If it's 40, it's 40. But I think we'll know fairly quickly how that's going to play out.

That said, I think if Fehr goes on waivers, we'll either claim him or trade for him and see if we can get TOR to retain a little and try and bring him in to fill the hole until we can find someone better later on in the season.

 

[Peat]

As far as I'm concerned, Rutherford has until it starts hurting the team to sort 3C. That could take 4 games or it could take 40. I'd rather it got sorted tomorrow but I'll judge by the results rather than the process.



And it would be dumb if this thread had no critical thought or opinions in it. At the same time, that doesn't change my opinion that a lot of the criticism has been hyperbolic in tone and/or hasn't considered the fuller picture and/or has very much jumped the gun in assuming possible mistakes will be definite mistakes.


Pixies, on your belief that Rutherford should have spent less on defence to spend more on centres, three questions:

a) How much do you think we could shaved off defence? I'm guessing you're thinking don't sign Hunwick and get Dumo for as low as you can on 2-3 years. I'd make that as a bit over 3m. Do you think we could have got Schultz for less on an even shorter deal/that would be a good idea?

b) What do you do with this extra cap? Because, from where I'm sitting, free agency was a bust for centres and most high cap centres take trade assets that involve us digging into our depth. I mean, you could maybe grab an overpaid guy on the cheap with plenty of cap - Soderberg f'instance - but is that what you had in mind.

c) Why not trade Hagelin for a pick if you want cap space? That gives you a bit over 3m and we have the replacements in house (in quality if not exact style).

 

[Riptide]

And it would be dumb if this thread had no critical thought or opinions in it. At the same time, that doesn't change my opinion that a lot of the criticism has been hyperbolic in tone and/or hasn't considered the fuller picture and/or has very much jumped the gun in assuming possible mistakes will be definite mistakes.


Pixies, on your belief that Rutherford should have spent less on defence to spend more on centres, three questions:

a) How much do you think we could shaved off defence? I'm guessing you're thinking don't sign Hunwick and get Dumo for as low as you can on 2-3 years. I'd make that as a bit over 3m. Do you think we could have got Schultz for less on an even shorter deal/that would be a good idea?

b) What do you do with this extra cap? Because, from where I'm sitting, free agency was a bust for centres and most high cap centres take trade assets that involve us digging into our depth. I mean, you could maybe grab an overpaid guy on the cheap with plenty of cap - Soderberg f'instance - but is that what you had in mind.

c) Why not trade Hagelin for a pick if you want cap space? That gives you a bit over 3m and we have the replacements in house (in quality if not exact style).

A) Depends on how far you want to go.

- Dumoulin if he signed a 2 yr deal (and if you're getting him cheap, he wouldn't sign for longer as that would eat up FA years), might sign for as low as 3.25m. Call it 3.1m to make it a nice even number... but I doubt we would have been able to get him to that.

- Schultz, I doubt even on a 1 yr deal we could have gotten him lower than 5m. So lets call it 5m on a 1 yr deal - again for a nice round number.

- Hunwick, obviously you don't sign him, and pray that Ruhwedel can fill the role.

Now you've saved 3.1m, and still kept the blueline mostly intact. And the good news is to ensure it's not looking absolutely dreadful, Letang only needs to stay healthy. Shouldn't be a big deal. Of course next year you're kinda ****ed. And then you're ****ed again the following year... but meh, not a big deal right? You wanted them cheap this year and next, and that's exactly what you got. Who cares about year 3... I mean Crosby and Malkin will be damn near washed up by then

B) Obviously you sign Bonino. Honestly, no clue. 3 months ago I would have said sign Bonino and be done with it. And while I still believe he was an above average #3C and that 4m wasn't terrible... I'm honestly not really sold after seeing his POs that spending that sort of money on him is the best move. There's Sodo... but even if we had the cap space, I'd still want retention happening there, because bottom line, he's not worth 4.75m.

C) I don't think we have a single replacement that can come near Hagelin's production. Sure last year was a down year for him. But if you normalize his shooting percentage (yes this stat again ), he comes out with around 40 pts. Not amazing given his 4m cap hit, but not bad either.

 

[ColePens]

In your scenario, you criple us because we lose these guys for free and have to replace in ufa or trade. Not smart reasoning there. Securing a player like dumo at his cost is a great move instead of keeping 1m and losing him or having to pay even more.

Wait... i think that's the point you're making lol

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I swear, my pages only have 10 posts on them any more thanks to all those I've put on ignore.

 

[Shrimper]

As long as we don't get knocked out in the first round then I'd consider this season a success. It would be nice to win the President's Trophy or just come 1st in the East to avoid a divisional team in the first round for a change. Anyway, that is a long way off. When you have won two cups in a row you can just sit back and enjoy it. I trust JR and co to do the right things. They have so far.

 

[mpp9]

I think you need a new viewing. Everything I've seen says he'll be an absolute stud as a #3C, and everything we're looking for.

What are you trading for him? For cheap? Sure. Im not blowing my best trade assets and cap space on him.

This is opinion bro. You can like the player all you want. I'd rather have a different skill set.

 

[Shady Machine]

The bolded is your problem then, because you seem to think people on this forum are 100% on board with having Carter Rowney as 3C come playoff time.

The difference is the majority of us aren't going to throw a fit about it IN THE SUMMER TIME. If at the end of the trade deadline, JR still hasn't properly filled the 3C spot? Sure, then it's time to criticize his inaction. But not now, not when every comment he's made is he's working on bringing in a 3C.

You are giving JR until the deadline to find a 3C? Damn that's generous.