The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
Third line is typically the players I would send over the board when McDavid comes out. I want defensively sound players who can limit offense and still produce. I don't want Tage out against McDavid his line will not have the advantage. All I can say is I really don't want that to be Krebs. TBH i just feel Krebs is the obvious player to move on from, not that concerned about the rigidity of lines. Numbering works for the overarching season and ranking players, but we all know lines change.
Right - and in those situations I'd expect the Cozens and/or 'x' lines to be deployed. With the Krebs line being utilised as a secondary offensive line that gets far easier assignments.

I don't entirely disagree with your view on Krebs - but at the same time i don't think he's been used correctly for the most part of his career & i certainly don't see Adams moving on from him this offseason. So you may as well put him in the best possible position to succeed.

This matters because 3C needs to get 3C ice-time. Krebs needs to focus on his game first and foremost, he can always move up the lineup if he plays well.
Where in any of my posts have i mentioned ice time?
 
Wouldn't mind toffoli, Stephenson and carrier
Well, I like a lot of players from this list.

DeBrusk
Joshua
Trenin
Carrier

About Toffoli, good player but i don't like his projected contract: 6M x 4Y for a 32 year old player it's not very attractive. So I would go with DeBrusk, who is five years younger.

Around Stephenson, seems like a perfect 3C, but Vegas fans in their HF thread for some reason want to get rid of him, I wonder why.
 
Marty on Sabres Live saying drafted prospects have more value than a first round pick was so profoundly dumb that it made my jaw drop. Excluding very rare exceptions a first will always have more value because the team gets to pick who they want. Picks are generally like cars in that they lose value once they leave the lot.
He is partly right, because it depends on what kind of team it is. Let's say Carolina is looking for a prospect for Necas who is almost ready or ready for the NHL, so probably for them the Kulich/Savoie trade for Necas makes more sense than 11 for Necas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SundherDome
Well, I like a lot of players from this list.

DeBrusk
Joshua
Trenin
Carrier

About Toffoli, good player but i don't like his projected contract: 6M x 4Y for a 32 year old player it's not very attractive. So I would go with DeBrusk, who is five years younger.

Around Stephenson, seems like a perfect 3C, but Vegas fans in their HF thread for some reason want to get rid of him, I wonder why.

Stephenson fell on his face this year. It might be a sign that his game is going to follow going forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fjordy
None of these teams are looking to trade their most elite talent for a goalie. If you went to every GM in the NHL and said, in a vacuum, you can add Brady Tkachuk to your roster or any NHL goalie, pick one, I think 75-80% take Tkachuk and that Shesterkin is the only goalie taken otherwise (maybe Oettinger by a GM or two). Outside of Buffalo there are not many hockey people who think Levi is anything close to a sure fire NHL starter, let alone an elite one. Turning down a Brady Tkachuk trade because Levi is part of the ask would be viewed as insanity by the hockey world.
Because Brady is the difference of making the playoffs over a goalie?

Senators haven't even moved the needle after declaring their rebuild was over with Brady and Stutzle, why? Because they need a goalie.

I'm not even going to touch on the 75-80% random number you just assumed.

Let me ask you this, If Brady Tkachuk is such a unicorn player and is the difference of playoffs or not. Why is Ottawa contemplating trading him for a goalie?

If we ask Toronto fans would they rather have Brady Tkachuk or Jusse Saros, who do you think they would take after seeing goaltending fail them year after year. Look at Edmonton in Game 7, Skinner completely stole that game for them. Lets say Edmonton had Brady Tkachuk over Skinner. Brady wouldn't be the difference or have the impact Skinner had.
 
Last edited:
Hasn't Staois recently laughed at the suggestion that Brady is even available? Is he lying? I highly doubt it.

...and If it's to be believed, as some think, that KA didn't want to pay Mitts his next deal...why would he trade high end prospects/pick for Necas...and then give him that deal, a guy who hasn't really played much center.
 
Because Brady is the difference of making the playoffs over a goalie?

Senators haven't even moved the needle after declaring their rebuild was over with Brady and Stutzle, why? Because they need a goalie.

I'm not even going to touch on the 75-80% random number you just assumed.

Let me ask you this, If Brady Tkachuk is such a unicorn player and is the difference of playoffs or not. Why is Ottawa contemplating trading him for a goalie?

If we ask Toronto fans would they rather have Brady Tkachuk or Jusse Saros, who do you think they would take after seeing goaltending fail them year after year. Look at Edmonton in Game 7, Skinner completely stole that game for them. Lets say Edmonton had Brady Tkachuk over Skinner. Brady wouldn't be the difference or have the impact Skinner had.
If you asked any fan base alive they would take Brady or Saros over Skinner which makes your theory odd.

Goalies catch fire sometimes in the playoffs...this isn't new. Skinner didn't get the Oilers to the playoffs...elite players did....like....hmmm Brady. Would you trade Tage for Halak or Binnington or any number of mediocre goalies that have done this?
 
Stephenson fell on his face this year. It might be a sign that his game is going to follow going forward.


Luszczyszyn is definitely "Buyer Beware" on Stephenson.

Screenshot-2024-05-31-at-2.16.09 PM.png


There may not be a center available with more red flags attached to him than Chandler Stephenson. If the 30-year-old center really does get over $6 million as Evolving Hockey is forecasting, my condolences go out to the fans of that franchise. The model has him worth closer to $4 million — even less if he doesn’t get top power-play time.

Stephenson’s claim to fame is that he is very fast, a skill set he parlayed toward becoming one of the NHL’s best zone entry players. In 2022-23, his 78 percent controlled entry rate was among the league’s very best.

This year, he created two fewer entries per 60 and also entered with control just 56 percent of the time. It’s a big step back that’s likely a partial factor of reduced foot speed. Thanks to NHL Edge tracking data, we know that three seasons ago, Stephenson’s top speed was 23.3 miles per hour and he had 330 speed bursts above 20 miles per hour. Last season, that dropped to 22.4 and 217 respectively. Still fast, but clearly losing a step.

That’s to be expected of a 30-year-old, but the issue is his game hasn’t adapted. On a strong Vegas team, Stephenson managed only 46 percent of the expected goals last season and 49 percent of the goals. Both were among the worst marks on the team with much of the issue stemming from defensive inability. The Golden Knights allowed 0.58 more expected goals against per 60 with Stephenson on the ice this season.

Offensively, his scoring also took a big hit, with his five-on-five points per 60 dropping from 2.34 in 2022-23 to 1.66 last season. That his scoring-chance assist rate dropped heavily from 4.7 (93rd percentile) to 2.3 (38th percentile) last season is troubling.

The biggest reason to be a Stephenson skeptic, though, is the Mark Stone of it all. Since arriving in Vegas, the duo has shared the ice a lot — to only Stephenson’s benefit. Over the last three years, the duo has played 1,370 minutes together, earning 57 percent of the goals and 52 percent of the expected goals. In 1,875 minutes without Stone, Stephenson is at 50 percent and 48 percent. In 496 minutes without Stephenson, Stone is at 60 percent in both goals and expected goals. His numbers go down next to Stephenson, with the most sizeable drop this past season. Stone had some of the worst on-ice numbers of his career and they were entirely in the minutes shared with Stephenson.

All of this might just be a down year for Stephenson who was legitimately great in 2022-23, especially in the playoffs. But the issues under the hood, the drop in foot speed and the numbers without Stone all point to a player who will likely struggle to live up to a big-money deal outside of Vegas. Unless he’s put in another extremely advantageous role, he’s closer to average than a bona fide top-six center.
 
I don't know, maybe you didn't mention it, I just clarified.
That's fair. But just because i might have listed 'x' below Krebs in my lineup - or Adams might refer to the guy he's targeting as a 'fourth line' type - it doesn't mean that we're talking about someone who will play 5 minutes a game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fjordy
Marty on Sabres Live saying drafted prospects have more value than a first round pick was so profoundly dumb that it made my jaw drop. Excluding very rare exceptions a first will always have more value because the team gets to pick who they want. Picks are generally like cars in that they lose value once they leave the lot.
Value to the team is disproportionate to the league, which is why so few high draft picks move. Savoie and Kulich are probably worth more than 9 and 28? respectively in this years draft to Adams. To a non-Sabres GM, the value is going to be less.

Is he specifically saying Savoie/Kulich is worth more than their draft position this year? Or worth more to the Sabres. Big difference.

Teams don't trade 1sts for prospects...mostly.
 
...and If it's to be believed, as some think, that KA didn't want to pay Mitts his next deal...why would he trade high end prospects/pick for Necas...and then give him that deal, a guy who hasn't really played much center.
Necas was just an example of a player who is being traded now. I don't see him as a center at all. But what if it wasn't Necas, but Konecny or some 3C/2C. I also think that if Adams was acquiring the players Granato asked for, then maybe Ruff will ask for certain players too, because he has a target of making the playoffs in his first season and he is unlikely to care about prospects, he wants players who will come in and be able to contribute right away.
 
If you asked any fan base alive they would take Brady or Saros over Skinner which makes your theory odd.

Goalies catch fire sometimes in the playoffs...this isn't new. Skinner didn't get the Oilers to the playoffs...elite players did....like....hmmm Brady. Would you trade Tage for Halak or Binnington or any number of mediocre goalies that have done this?
Its absolutely insane to me that you could have watched the Sabres for the last 13 years and not seen how much a good goalie impacts the ice. Eichel and Reinhart never made the playoffs until they left, are they not as elite as Brady... oh wait.. him and Stutzle have never made it themselves.

How many early exists did Edmonton have with Talbot? How many early exits have Toronto had with the firepower they have because they had Anderson or the countless other random goalies. Where is the elite talent up front for Nashville who willed them into the playoffs especially when everyone wrote them off as sellers before the season?

Having a good goalie is far more important than having a Brady Tkachuk and since the Sabres haven't got a surefire good goalie and have no one behind UPL and Levi, they are not at the liberty of giving up either for Brady.

EDIT: NJ is another team, tons of firepower up front but a goalie sank their entire season. Do you think if they traded for Brady and kept the same goalies, Brady would be the goal difference of them making the playoffs or not?
 
Last edited:
Its absolutely insane to me that you could have watched the Sabres for the last 13 years and not seen how much a good goalie impacts the ice. Eichel and Reinhart never made the playoffs until they left, are they not as elite as Brady... oh wait.. him and Stutzle have never made it themselves.

How many early exists did Edmonton have with Talbot? How many early exits have Toronto had with the firepower they have because they had Anderson or the countless other random goalies. Where is the elite talent up front for Nashville who willed them into the playoffs especially when everyone wrote them off as sellers before the season?

Having a good goalie is far more important than having a Brady Tkachuk and since the Sabres haven't got a surefire good goalie and have no one behind UPL and Levi, they are not at the liberty of giving up either for Brady.
Half our years of struggling were behind Ryan Miller who is hands and feet above the talent level of Stuart effing Skinner lol. There's a case to be made for Ullmark too.

While we are here I'd take 6k and Levi over Skinner long term as well.

Base line? ......It's not the regular season goalie or playoff goaalie that makes or breaks a team.

Tell me the Oilers would be in the finals without McDavid/Drai?Hyman.....I'll wait


The teams in the playoffs with Skinner would be about ~16
 
Its absolutely insane to me that you could have watched the Sabres for the last 13 years and not seen how much a good goalie impacts the ice. Eichel and Reinhart never made the playoffs until they left, are they not as elite as Brady... oh wait.. him and Stutzle have never made it themselves.

How many early exists did Edmonton have with Talbot? How many early exits have Toronto had with the firepower they have because they had Anderson or the countless other random goalies. Where is the elite talent up front for Nashville who willed them into the playoffs especially when everyone wrote them off as sellers before the season?

Having a good goalie is far more important than having a Brady Tkachuk and since the Sabres haven't got a surefire good goalie and have no one behind UPL and Levi, they are not at the liberty of giving up either for Brady.

EDIT: NJ is another team, tons of firepower up front but a goalie sank their entire season. Do you think if they traded for Brady and kept the same goalies, Brady would be the goal difference of them making the playoffs or not?
Nobody is saying goaltending is unimportant. Just that teams will choose the elite skater. Also, in this hypothetical, the Sabres aren’t trading an established and elite goalie like Saros or even a more average starter like Skinner. They are trading an undersized goalie prospect that the hockey world is far from certain on. I’m not down on Levi and am glad we have him. But I would not flinch including him as part of a deal for Brady Tkachuk.
 
Half our years of struggling were behind Ryan Miller who is hands and feet above the talent level of Stuart effing Skinner lol. There's a case to be made for Ullmark too.

While we are here I'd take 6k and Levi over Skinner long term as well.

Base line? ......It's not the regular season goalie or playoff goaalie that makes or breaks a team.

Tell me the Oilers would be in the finals without McDavid/Drai?Hyman.....I'll wait


The teams in the playoffs with Skinner would be about ~16
Ullmark was constantly injured with us, he never had a fair shake but we all saw his potential before he was let walk. I don't know how you get our struggles were behind Ryan Miller when the year before he was traded to St. Louis (Who made the playoffs with him) was really his only down year with the Sabres. The reason we went back to back seasons without the playoffs was he got injured in 2010-2011 if I remember correctly. Every year prior to that the Sabres were contenders if not a bubble team towards the end.

I would take 6K and Levi over Skinner as well, advocating for Skinner was never my point and is a strawman drawn up by you. My point with Skinner was, this playoffs he has been the difference between a first round exit and a Stanley Cup appearance. McDavid and Draistle never got this far with Cam Talbot which shows you, a goalie has just as much if not more of an impact then that of a star player. You still have to go out and score but you also need your goalie to reliably shut the door in which he did beating the Stars especially in Game 7 after Edmonton got completely out shot and dominated.

I made examples of other teams, New Jersey with all their firepower couldn't make the playoffs because of goaltending. Toronto hasn't made a conference finals mostly because of goaltending, their scoring dries up at times but the way Keefe had them playing against Boston defensively was pretty impressive of course he had to do that because their goalie is unreliable.

Nashville, Saros willed that team into the playoffs this year. Everyone wrote them off at the start of the season and thought they were going to go into a rebuild. They don't have the offensive firepower as any other team that made the playoffs but they have a good goalie.

There is a common theme here, offensive firepower will only get you so far, the goalie is the entire spine of a team. It doesn't matter how good you are, both those teams in the playoffs didn't make it there just on bad goaltending and amazing firepower.
 

THN thinking Frost as a possible candidate for Buffalo.
Why not. He's had a few seasons with over 40 points, his FO% is constantly improving and is almost 50%, although he's not very physical, I don't know if he's good at defense and two-way play, on the PK and PP, that needs to be found out.

They already want to trade Laughton for us in the comments under the video and also get #11. :laugh:
 
Last edited:
Nobody is saying goaltending is unimportant. Just that teams will choose the elite skater. Also, in this hypothetical, the Sabres aren’t trading an established and elite goalie like Saros or even a more average starter like Skinner. They are trading an undersized goalie prospect that the hockey world is far from certain on. I’m not down on Levi and am glad we have him. But I would not flinch including him as part of a deal for Brady Tkachuk.
I'm not down on him, especially after his performance for Rochester in the playoffs but if hes undersized and the hockey world is uncertain on him then hes clearly not the goalie Ottawa is looking for and this entire Levi for Brady started by Chad of all people is completely moot.

My position has always been, the Sabres are not in a position to trade from goalie for anyone and its a hill I will die on.

I will also die on the logic that a goalie is the single biggest aspect to a teams success. You can score all you want but if you cant keep the puck out of the net and make timely saves when needed, all that scoring will go the way of New Jersey this year.
 
Nobody is saying goaltending is unimportant. Just that teams will choose the elite skater. Also, in this hypothetical, the Sabres aren’t trading an established and elite goalie like Saros or even a more average starter like Skinner. They are trading an undersized goalie prospect that the hockey world is far from certain on. I’m not down on Levi and am glad we have him. But I would not flinch including him as part of a deal for Brady Tkachuk.

I'd really flinch. Flinch hard. If we did trade Levi for Tkachuk it would be straight up and Ottawa won't do that.

Last year is a perfect example of why you need above average goaltending and what was the last season we had where we didn't use three or more goalies due to injury?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sabre the Win
Why not. He's had a few seasons with over 40 points, his FO% is constantly improving and is almost 50%, although he's not very physical, I don't know if he's good at defense and two-way play, on the PK and PP, that needs to be found out.

They already want to trade Laughton for us in the comments under the video and also get #11. :laugh:

There is talk about both Frost and Laughton. I don’t see either being with 11OA alone. That would be particularly disappointing as returns go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doug Prishpreed

THN thinking Frost as a possible candidate for Buffalo.
I like that idea, Morgan Frost for 3C, who do they want? Jokiharju or Samuelsson? I would do either
 

THN thinking Frost as a possible candidate for Buffalo.
Briere and Adams seem to talk a lot. Isn't this guy from hockeybuzz though?

There is talk about both Frost and Laughton. I don’t see either being with 11OA alone. That would be particularly disappointing as returns go.
I wonder if Cates is still in the mix.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad