The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Chainshot]

So the pros to Cirelli - cost control, experience, can play up the lineup with offensive wingers.

Cons? Short list…

First, Chain I appreciate your center list and as I go over it, it makes me nervous. To me, if we traded for over half of them, it would be what I consider a “retirement” trade for the player. “Great, I just got traded to Buffalo. They never win, guess the bar isn’t set too high. I’ll slack training now.” There really are only a couple names, that’ll come in at the right age and attitude.

Some might be. Some have trade protection so they would have to be willing.

Second, JT Compher got a 5 x $5 mil contract last year. So are we saying Cirelli is overpaid….by what? A couple hundred thousand, or $500k?!?!

I think it’s very arguable that trading for Cirelli before free agency makes Buffalo a way better destination. Ruff plus Cirelli is like instant credibility

Copp got $5.6M and isn’t living up to that deal either. It is a bind for some.

 

[Irie]

Hes overpaid for his role.

No matter who Adams convinces to come to Buffalo, if they check any of the boxes that the team actually needs, they are likely going to be wildly overpaid for their roles. It is an unfortunate reality.

 

[Sabreality]

wondering if a guy like Wennberg could be an option as a '3C', I know he's kind of a 'boring' low event player, but he's intelligent and plays on the right side of the puck, just good awareness in a Larry sort of way, has had PK ability in years past. Not overly physical, but uses his body to control the puck. He's slippery through the neutral zone and entering the zone but won't provide a ton of O in around the net. He's the type who wins shifts, but might not provide a ton of O without the right wingers.

Cuyyle-Wennberg-Kakko have had a strong postseason analytically, just not much production on the stat sheet. maybe inserting Chytil there this round will see an uptick.

 

[Djp]

No matter who Adams convinces to come to Buffalo, if they check any of the boxes that the team actually needs, they are likely going to be wildly overpaid for their roles. It is an unfortunate reality.

I can swallow a shorter contract like 2-3 yrs with cap hit max 4M max depending on salary moved in/out. If you were trading peterka in the deal you get more wiggle room next summer because he can be replaced by an ELC winger.

 

[Irie]

wondering if a guy like Wennberg could be an option as a '3C', I know he's kind of a 'boring' low event player, but he's intelligent and plays on the right side of the puck, just good awareness in a Larry sort of way, has had PK ability in years past. Not overly physical, but uses his body to control the puck. He's slippery through the neutral zone and entering the zone but won't provide a ton of O in around the net. He's the type who wins shifts, but might not provide a ton of O without the right wingers.

Cuyyle-Wennberg-Kakko have had a strong postseason analytically, just not much production on the stat sheet. maybe inserting Chytil there this round will see an uptick.

I watched the vast majority of Wennberg's games in Seattle the past three seasons, and if you are looking for a low event thirdline center that does the little things well, you could do much worse than adding Alex Wennberg. That said, Wennberg doesn't really tick any of the boxes that I feel this Sabres team really needs. His is not physical, really at all. He's pretty bad in the faceoff circle, and there really isn't any edge to his game which I think this team seriously lacks.

You'd be getting a third line center (good), but not adding any of the intangibles that really need to be addressed this offseason (bad). At this point, I firmly believe this team needs some players that bring those physical intangibles as much, if not more than they need more skilled players. Having that attitude rub off on the forward core is the adjustment this team needs that a Wennberg upgrade just isn't going to provide imo.

 

[Sabreality]

I watched the vast majority of Wennberg's games in Seattle the past three seasons, and if you are looking for a low event thirdline center that does the little things well, you could do much worse than adding Alex Wennberg. That said, Wennberg doesn't really tick any of the boxes that I feel this Sabres team really needs. His is not physical, really at all. He's pretty bad in the faceoff circle, and there really isn't any edge to his game which I think this team seriously lacks.

You'd be getting a third line center (good), but not adding any of the intangibles that really need to be addressed this offseason (bad). At this point, I firmly believe this team needs some players that bring those physical intangibles as much, if not more than they need more skilled players. Having that attitude rub off on the forward core is the adjustment this team needs that a Wennberg upgrade just isn't going to provide imo.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of that, just spit balling the options, low event who helps keep possession and the puck out of your zone certainly isn't a bad thing, if had a tad more grit. Although I don't think he's 'soft' necessarily, he's more of that use body position type, but 'too perimiter-y' has always been my knock on him even if a solid, smart player.

 

[Dingo44]

The dream shouldn't be Cirelli.

Give me another State of Florida center on a team with upcoming cap issues.

I want Sam Bennett (with an extension).

 

[Old Navy Goat]

The dream shouldn't be Cirelli.

Give me another State of Florida center on a team with upcoming cap issues.

I want Sam Bennett (with an extension).

Make it a twofer Bennett and Lomberg

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

I watched the vast majority of Wennberg's games in Seattle the past three seasons, and if you are looking for a low event thirdline center that does the little things well, you could do much worse than adding Alex Wennberg. That said, Wennberg doesn't really tick any of the boxes that I feel this Sabres team really needs. His is not physical, really at all. He's pretty bad in the faceoff circle, and there really isn't any edge to his game which I think this team seriously lacks.

You'd be getting a third line center (good), but not adding any of the intangibles that really need to be addressed this offseason (bad). At this point, I firmly believe this team needs some players that bring those physical intangibles as much, if not more than they need more skilled players. Having that attitude rub off on the forward core is the adjustment this team needs that a Wennberg upgrade just isn't going to provide imo.

Agree. I'm also still holding out hope that a few guys will come back 5+ lbs heavier in the fall. Quinn, Cozens, Byram, Power, Peterka, Benson could all use a bit more man strength.

 

[HOOats]

Make it a twofer Bennett and Lomberg

Stenlund is appealing as a bargain 4C too. He's been an enormous wet blanket on opponents' offense lately. Poor man's Gaustad for Lindy to work with. 2/$1.5M could get it done.

 

[MOGlLNY]

The dream shouldn't be Cirelli.

Give me another State of Florida center on a team with upcoming cap issues.

I want Sam Bennett (with an extension).

We're worried about Cirelli's contract + cost to acquire him but not what Bennett is gonna command to come to Buffalo in the new rising cap era? 8+ million or so for 7 years?

He's worse on defense by a long shot and the equivalent to Cozens in the dot. But he's definitely tougher.

I love Bennett by the way, but the exact same issues are there and in a worse way. Except he's got more bite to him.

 

[Djp]

Prospects/RFAs with big upside almost never get traded for a pick.

And as for the second, I am all ears. But, I doubt you get a legit top 6 player that isn't paid as much as Cirelli, or more, being available for that package. Especially if you are looking to add a center to this roster.

Depends on the pick and teams needs.

How he is used and the position the Lightning are in because of their Cap is one thing... his talent is not that of a top 6 player.

When we get all world players like Kucherov, Stamkos and Point in our top 6 maybe we can get away with having
a Cirelli talent in top 6

thats the core issue on here. Just because a player produces because he plays with a star player somehow makes him more valuable when hes not.

Citelli is not going create a 3rd line any better than krebs can factoring in their salaries.

Buffalo has a C in ostlund and likely another with 11oa. Idd rather have them develop and only focus on short term players.

I think Kulich for Cirelli sets up being trolled by Kulich for years. Same with Savoie.

But it's tempting to just get on with it already.

I'd never move either for Cirelli

 

[Dingo44]

We're worried about Cirelli's contract + cost to acquire him but not what Bennett is gonna command to come to Buffalo in the new rising cap era? 8+ million or so for 7 years?

He's worse on defense by a long shot and the equivalent to Cozens in the dot. But he's definitely tougher.

I love Bennett by the way, but the exact same issues are there and in a worse way. Except he's got more bite to him.

Bennett is worth it. He can play up and down the lineup and he can bang it out or play with speed. He's also a dink and a banger and we need that a lot more than what Cirelli would bring.

https://floridahockeynow.com/sam-bennett-the-swiss-army-knife-of-the-florida-panthers/

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nhl/florida-panthers/article286951520.html

“He’s a quiet man, but his style of game and his personality is something we’re trying to emulate — Everybody should play a little bit more like Sam Bennett,” Maurice said. “He doesn’t say a whole lot and he plays hard. He has this really nice blend of very strong speed. He can make plays — he can make nuanced plays — but he can hit [too]. He’s an unusual center iceman because he covers the spectrum of style of play. He can do a whole bunch of things. In the coaches’ room, when you’re building your team or if your pecking order on injuries is we don’t like it when Sam Bennett is out of our lineup, and there’s only probably a handful of players beside him in terms of the importance of that.”

 

[TehDoak]

How he is used and the position the Lightning are in because of their Cap is one thing... his talent is not that of a top 6 player.

When we get all world players like Kucherov, Stamkos and Point in our top 6 maybe we can get away with having
a Cirelli talent in top 6

The last 4 years he's been:

4th
6th
5th
4th

in terms of TOI of forwards on a team that made the playoffs every year and has been to the cup twice (and won it once in that strech)

Cirelli fits a dire need and still has plenty of his peak career left.

The question here isn't "Would you trade the 11th for him", the question is:

Is Tampa willing to move him? Within the division?

 

[Fjordy]

Bennett would be a great pickup too.

 

[Beerz]

The last 4 years he's been:

4th
6th
5th
4th

in terms of TOI of forwards on a team that made the playoffs every year and has been to the cup twice (and won it once in that strech)

Cirelli fits a dire need and still has plenty of his peak career left.

The question here isn't "Would you trade the 11th for him", the question is:

Is Tampa willing to move him? Within the division?

Cirelli would fit a dire need and has plenty of career left.

The answer to your questions are no I wouldn't trade the 11th OA for him.

And no TB probably doesn't trade him in division. Just like Florida probably doesn't trade Bennett in division or at all

Now imagine Ryan Lindgren was a RHD ... he fits a dire need of a RHD in top 4 for the Sabres .. do you trade 11th OA for him? Need and their role on a successful team is not the determining factors when deciding what to give up in a trade. Talent is.. and Cirelli is not a top third of the draft type of talent.

 

[TehDoak]

Cirelli would fit a dire need and has plenty of career left.

The answer to your questions are no I wouldn't trade the 11th OA for him.

And no TB probably doesn't trade him in division. Just like Florida probably doesn't trade Bennett in division or at all

Now imagine Ryan Lindgren was a RHD ... he fits a dire need of a RHD in top 4 for the Sabres .. do you trade 11th OA for him? Need and their role on a successful team is not the determining factors when deciding what to give up in a trade. Talent is.. and Cirelli is not a top third of the draft type of talent.

Undoubtedly you could get a more talented player for 11th overall.

But this is about winning now, not hitting a certain talent threshold.

The price is determined by the market, not the talent level alone.

Centers have a premium. Plenty of teams need that middle six, two way, PKing center.

And I'm certain many teams feel there is offensive upside to Cirelli that he won't realize in Tampa being behind Point and Stamkos on the depth chart. That is going to drive his price.

I've used the comparison of Jordan Staal trade with this. Staal netted two good prospects and 8th overall.

Also, a top 4 shutdown RHD would be worth a premium as well. Though I'd probably try to move out one of our LHD's for him rather than have the leagues most expensive defense.

 

[Beerz]

Undoubtedly you could get a more talented player for 11th overall.

But this is about winning now, not hitting a certain talent threshold.

The price is determined by the market, not the talent level alone.

Centers have a premium. Plenty of teams need that middle six, two way, PKing center.

And I'm certain many teams feel there is offensive upside to Cirelli that he won't realize in Tampa being behind Point and Stamkos on the depth chart. That is going to drive his price.

I've used the comparison of Jordan Staal trade with this. Staal netted two good prospects and 8th overall.

Also, a top 4 shutdown RHD would be worth a premium as well. Though I'd probably try to move out one of our LHD's for him rather than have the leagues most expensive defense.

Staal was 4 yrs younger so there was still hope for growth ... not to mention the Penguins left Filip Forsberg on the table with that pick.

 

[BFLO]

We dealt two players we used mid first rounders on (Zadorov, Grigorenko), the 31st overall pick in the 2015 draft and JT Compher who we had just used a second rounder on for ROR and McGinn. That 31st overall could have been Aho for us.

Something like Krebs, Rosen, Kisakov and Walhberg seems close in value to the ROR trade.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

So getting past the NMC in Skinner’s contract….

Our second in 24 and retaining $3 mil, so 3 @ $6 mil remaining….any takers?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Stenlund is appealing as a bargain 4C too. He's been an enormous wet blanket on opponents' offense lately. Poor man's Gaustad for Lindy to work with. 2/$1.5M could get it done.

I was just coming here to post the same thing. If FL is going to lose someone to a cap crunch, Stenlund is a likely target and plays his role quite well.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

So getting past the NMC in Skinner’s contract….

Our second in 24 and retaining $3 mil, so 3 @ $6 mil remaining….any takers?

Just buy him out -- he's not agreeing to the move.

 

[Archie Lee]

Just buy him out -- he's not agreeing to the move.

It's time. Assuming we are prepared to spend to the cap (or near to the cap) going forward (which is not a sure thing), we are really limited to one splashy move without a Skinner buyout. If we buyout Skinner, we can dramatically reshape the roster, particularly if we also move on from Jokiharju. I recognize that we are highly unlikely to buy him out.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I don't see how we can talk about any trades for any centre unless they can take a faceoff and a decent amount above 50%. We are just horrible at draws. It is every year. Zero confidence current centres get better.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Just buy him out -- he's not agreeing to the move.

Skinner is not being bought out this year. It makes zero sense. We save cap this year and then barely any in the next two years. And then three years of a heavy penalty. In 2025-26, we'd have to find a better player than Skinner for $4.5 M. We won't. The buyout talk is emotional and not rational.

Buy him out before the last season of the deal.