The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Beerz]

Prospects/RFAs with big upside almost never get traded for a pick.

And as for the second, I am all ears. But, I doubt you get a legit top 6 player that isn't paid as much as Cirelli, or more, being available for that package. Especially if you are looking to add a center to this roster.

6.5 mill on a legit top 6 talent is fine.. even higher is fine.

Cirelli is overpaid so it's not a great comparison.

Cirelli is not a top 6 talent.

 

[Gabrielor]

6.5 mill on a legit top 6 talent is fine.. even higher is fine.

Cirelli is overpaid so it's not a great comparison.

Cirelli is not a top 6 talent.

Interesting, since he's been used there multiple times, including in the playoffs.

 

[Beerz]

Interesting, since he's been used there multiple times, including in the playoffs.

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How he is used and the position the Lightning are in because of their Cap is one thing... his talent is not that of a top 6 player.

When we get all world players like Kucherov, Stamkos and Point in our top 6 maybe we can get away with having
a Cirelli talent in top 6

 

[Fjordy]

I agree.. Cirelli > Ehlers.

I didn't mean to suggest you offered 11 and Ostlund .. I was speaking about the proposed deal from the article from Expected Buffalo.

I wouldn't mind Cirelli... huge upgrade on Krebs. He just isn't a worth a top 10 pick .. You use that on a bigger fish. Or you better be getting something back with Cirelli for that 11th ... 11th Ostlund or whatever Chad proposed is just flat out dumb.

Again, we have no choice in the top 10, and Cirelli is not some old 3C that will fall off a cliff in 1-2 years. Bigger fish, perhaps, but who? And I still think the 3C position is a key one that Adams needs to fill. If they're going to go into the season with Thompson, Cozens, and Krebs under center and it doesn't work out (which is very possible), then we won't make the playoffs and Kevin will lose his job.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I wouldn't mind Cirelli... huge upgrade on Krebs. He just isn't a worth a top 10 pick .. You use that on a bigger fish. Or you better be getting something back with Cirelli for that 11th ... 11th Ostlund or whatever Chad proposed is just flat out dumb.

I'd put money on you changing your mind the second the puck is dropped for game one, and you have a selke-caliber 3C, and the only thing you lost was your 5th best prospect who wouldn't be on the roster until after Dahlin's prime anyway.

Interesting, since he's been used there multiple times, including in the playoffs.

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Easy to be in the top 6 on a shite team

 

[Fly Boy]

I think the thing most people aren't taking into account with a Cirelli trade is the time frame. The NHL doesn't like any trades to happen before the finals are over. By the time the finals do end you are looking at about a week and a half before the draft happens. What are the chances the Ligtning figure out an extension with Stamkos by then? They can go into the offseason over the cap so it gives them extra time to be flexible. Addionally, you would think they would try to move Jeannot, Sherry and Prebix before Cirelli. That's probably going to take them time to figure out. Anyone that thinks that all of this is going to happen in the 10 days before the draft to lead to the Lightning to trade Cirelli just isn't thinking objectively.

I am not arguing Cirelli's worth of 11th or not. I'm saying that any Cirelli move if it does happen lines up more with later in the offseason and not at the draft. This arguing over our 2024 1st for him seems redundant.

 

[Beerz]

Again, we have no choice in the top 10, and Cirelli is not some old 3C that will fall off a cliff in 1-2 years. Bigger fish, perhaps, but who? And I still think the 3C position is a key one that Adams needs to fill. If they're going to go into the season with Thompson, Cozens, and Krebs under center and it doesn't work out (which is very possible), then we won't make the playoffs and Kevin will lose his job.

I mean I would like them to use the 11th to upgrade top 6 but it doesn't have to happen. All depends on who is available and cost to acquire and the contract.

But yes you are right Krebs needs to be upgraded on 100% and Cirelli would be a good target tho his contract would make me cringe a little... But you can't use 11th overall to get Cirelli. If we get Cirelli then we definitely aren't upgrading the top 6 so that 11th OA will need to be used for a hopefully a good player down the road with a cheap ELC contract. So you are resetting the timing on one player using that ELC.

11th on Cirelli is bad.

 

[Beerz]

I'd put money on you changing your mind the second the puck is dropped for game one, and you have a selke-caliber 3C, and the only thing you lost was your 5th best prospect who wouldn't be on the roster until after Dahlin's prime anyway.


Easy to be in the top 6 on a shite team

The only thing I lose is my 5th best prospect in Ostlund? Ok sign me up... but that is not what we are talking about now is it? The proposed deal was 11th OA, Ostlund and a 2nd.

No thanks.

 

[Zman5778]

6.5 mill on a legit top 6 talent is fine.. even higher is fine.

Cirelli is overpaid so it's not a great comparison.

Cirelli is not a top 6 talent.

Is Cirelli overpaid? Yeah, but it's not egregious. If he was correctly paid, there would be ZERO reason for Tampa to move him at all.

You say he's not a top 6 talent -- but he's been used in the top 6 on 2 Cup-winning teams and a 3rd that went to the Finals. I dunno, that seems good enough for me. He's a guy that is a picture-perfect middle 6 center. Hell, it's possible that he's the guy that kicks Cozens to the wing like many here think that Cozens ultimately is. He is an ace PKer.

He plays the game the way we need more Sabres to play the game. And if it takes a mild overpay in assets to do so.......jeez, we can take the hit. We've got way too many assets as it is

 

[Zman5778]

The only thing I lose is my 5th best prospect in Ostlund? Ok sign me up... but that is not what we are talking about now is it? The proposed deal was 11th OA, Ostlund and a 2nd.

No thanks.

A Tampa fan suggested Kulich and a 2nd would suffice. Another one or two Tampa fans have said 11 OA straight up for Cirelli works.

11/Ostlund/2nd is stupid.

 

[Chainshot]

I think the thing most people aren't taking into account with a Cirelli trade is the time frame. The NHL doesn't like any trades to happen before the finals are over. By the time the finals do end you are looking at about a week and a half before the draft happens. What are the chances the Ligtning figure out an extension with Stamkos by then? They can go into the offseason over the cap so it gives them extra time to be flexible. Addionally, you would think they would try to move Jeannot, Sherry and Prebix before Cirelli. That's probably going to take them time to figure out. Anyone that thinks that all of this is going to happen in the 10 days before the draft to lead to the Lightning to trade Cirelli just isn't thinking objectively.

I am not arguing Cirelli's worth of 11th or not. I'm saying that any Cirelli move if it does happen lines up more with later in the offseason and not at the draft. This arguing over our 2024 1st for him seems redundant.

Disagree. Teams have their ducks in a row by the draft and waiting around until after initial UFA signings to make moves is folly.

 

[Reddawg]

Instead of trading for Cirelli at all we should just keep developing Benson into a cost-controlled higher scoring peskier Cirelli. That maybe the refs don't blindly hate quite as much.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I think the thing most people aren't taking into account with a Cirelli trade is the time frame. The NHL doesn't like any trades to happen before the finals are over. By the time the finals do end you are looking at about a week and a half before the draft happens. What are the chances the Ligtning figure out an extension with Stamkos by then? They can go into the offseason over the cap so it gives them extra time to be flexible. Addionally, you would think they would try to move Jeannot, Sherry and Prebix before Cirelli. That's probably going to take them time to figure out. Anyone that thinks that all of this is going to happen in the 10 days before the draft to lead to the Lightning to trade Cirelli just isn't thinking objectively.

I am not arguing Cirelli's worth of 11th or not. I'm saying that any Cirelli move if it does happen lines up more with later in the offseason and not at the draft. This arguing over our 2024 1st for him seems redundant.

Tampa kind of needs to decide what to do with Stamkos before the draft since if they do decide to sign him afterwards, they'll need to do a shit load of work -- including trades -- to become cap compliant. If they wait until after the draft and UFAs are all signed, then they REALLY limit their ability to make trades or dump players because everyone else has their rosters set and can't fit any players under their cap without Tampa taking salary back -- which they won't be able to do. So their pool of potential trade partners dwindles down to almost nothing, killing any value they hope to recieve.

For these reasons, I think we'll see them making a decision on Stamkos before the draft.

 

[Beerz]

Is Cirelli overpaid? Yeah, but it's not egregious. If he was correctly paid, there would be ZERO reason for Tampa to move him at all.

You say he's not a top 6 talent -- but he's been used in the top 6 on 2 Cup-winning teams and a 3rd that went to the Finals. I dunno, that seems good enough for me. He's a guy that is a picture-perfect middle 6 center. Hell, it's possible that he's the guy that kicks Cozens to the wing like many here think that Cozens ultimately is. He is an ace PKer.

He plays the game the way we need more Sabres to play the game. And if it takes a mild overpay in assets to do so.......jeez, we can take the hit. We've got way too many assets as it is

Again... when we have All World Players like Point, Stamkos, Kucherov in our top 6.. an all world Norris guy in Hedman and best goalie in the world at that time in Val maybe you can win with a Cirelli in your top 6.

He just isn't worth that price.

Ryan O'Reilly was heads and shoulders above Cirelli at a younger age and he didn't pull that kind of return. And people said we overpaid for that.

 

[Beerz]

A Tampa fan suggested Kulich and a 2nd would suffice. Another one or two Tampa fans have said 11 OA straight up for Cirelli works.

11/Ostlund/2nd is stupid.

I wouldn't do either one of those for Cirelli.

I'd give up Ostlund/Rosen level prospect

Not a Kulich/Savoie level one. And I have my reservations with Savoie with NHL durability and effectiveness

 

[Reddawg]

Ryan O'Reilly was heads and shoulders above Cirelli at a younger age and he didn't pull that kind of return. And people said we overpaid for that.

We dealt two players we used mid first rounders on (Zadorov, Grigorenko), the 31st overall pick in the 2015 draft and JT Compher who we had just used a second rounder on for ROR and McGinn. That 31st overall could have been Aho for us.

 

[Beerz]

We dealt two players we used mid first rounders on (Zadorov, Grigorenko), the 31st overall pick in the 2015 draft and JT Compher who we had just used a second rounder on for ROR and McGinn. That 31st overall could have been Aho for us.

Grigorenko did not have much value by the time we traded him.. even us plebs knew he was on his way to bustville

 

[Fjordy]

I mean I would like them to use the 11th to upgrade top 6 but it doesn't have to happen. All depends on who is available and cost to acquire and the contract.

But yes you are right Krebs needs to be upgraded on 100% and Cirelli would be a good target tho his contract would make me cringe a little... But you can't use 11th overall to get Cirelli. If we get Cirelli then we definitely aren't upgrading the top 6 so that 11th OA will need to be used for a hopefully a good player down the road with a cheap ELC contract. So you are resetting the timing on one player using that ELC.

11th on Cirelli is bad.

Cirelli is more important to us than a top 6 winger, we have a ton of young wingers and we also have Tuch. Benson, Quinn, Peterka, Kulich and Rosen are on the way, Savoie can play winger, even Cozens. But we have absolutely no one like Cirelli. Damn, it seems to me that getting a top 6 winger is much easier than a player like Cirelli.

Instead of trading for Cirelli at all we should just keep developing Benson into a cost-controlled higher scoring peskier Cirelli. That maybe the refs don't blindly hate quite as much.

Zach Benson is not a center, he is a great young player, but we need a player like Cirelli (or someone similar) to not screw it up again. If one of Thompson and Cozens doesn't find his game next season or gets injured, we're screwed.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm down with a Rosen and 40OA and say next year's 2nd type offer for Cirelli. I just can't get to 11oa for him even when I try.

 

[Dingo44]

Ostlund might be the one player outside of Savoie that I wouldn't trade. We don't have anyone else like him in our system and he could be our Cirelli except with more size and jam in a couple of years.

 

[Beerz]

Cirelli is more important to us than a top 6 winger, we have a ton of young wingers and we also have Tuch. Benson, Quinn, Peterka, Kulich and Rosen are on the way, Savoie can play winger, even Cozens. But we have absolutely no one like Cirelli. Damn, it seems to me that getting a top 6 winger is much easier than a player like Cirelli.


Zach Benson is not a center, he is a great young player, but we need a player like Cirelli (or someone similar) to not screw it up again. If one of Thompson and Cozens doesn't find his game next season or gets injured, we're screwed.

Upgrading the top 6 would be a huge move.. it would have to be for an impact player and it would be about revamping the team.. im not talking about guys like Ehlers or Necas ect ect .. it's basically a pipe dream

If Thompson or Cozens gets hurt for significant time even with Cirelli we are screwed.

 

[Chainshot]

I think Kulich for Cirelli sets up being trolled by Kulich for years. Same with Savoie.

But it's tempting to just get on with it already.

 

[Fjordy]

Upgrading the top 6 would be a huge move.. it would have to be for an impact player and it would be about revamping the team.. im not talking about guys like Ehlers or Necas ect ect .. it's basically a pipe dream

If Thompson or Cozens gets hurt for significant time even with Cirelli we are screwed.

Dude it won't happen, I don't think Adams will pull something like that off. Ehlers or Necas look more realistic, but I'm not sure since Adams likes his child wingers.Well, there is a difference in Krebs and Cirelli.

Ostlund might be the one player outside of Savoie that I wouldn't trade. We don't have anyone else like him in our system and he could be our Cirelli except with more size and jam in a couple of years.

Yes, let's wait a couple more years until all our prospects develop and become the new Cirellis and Ehlers, I wonder what Lindy and some fans (including me) think about this. This is f***ed guys.

 

[Dingo44]

Yes, let's wait a couple more years until all our prospects develop and become the new Cirellis and Ehlers, I wonder what Lindy and some fans (including me) think about this. This is f***ed guys.

We have lots of other trade capital Brosef.

 

[Fjordy]

We have lots of other trade capital Brosef.

Then we need to trade this, even if there is a slight overpayment, I don’t care. Target is to reach the playoffs, the goal is to provide the squad with good players in all positions as much as possible so that Lindy can do something about it.