The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Doug Prishpreed]

Skinner is not being bought out this year. It makes zero sense. We save cap this year and then barely any in the next two years. And then three years of a heavy penalty. In 2025-26, we'd have to find a better player than Skinner for $4.5 M. We won't. The buyout talk is emotional and not rational.

Buy him out before the last season of the deal.

He's not being traded either so there is really no discussion to be had regarding a 2024/2025 roster without him.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

He's not being traded either so there is really no discussion to be had regarding a 2024/2025 roster without him.

I 100% agree. People can do it but it's spinning your wheels. Ruff will get one year to work with Skinner and see if they can find common ground. My guess is he will find common ground. He will demand more all-out effort from Skinner but he will not be as obsessed about his D play as fans on social are. Daniel Briere was not exactly a guy who played in his own end but he was a pit bull around the net and hard-nosed. He played an offensive game but not a soft one. I expect Skinner to be asked to get back to his game where is far chippier, draws a ton of penalties and makes other teams super angry. Skinner stopped skating the last couple of months of year. Maybe he was injured. We need Skinner that causes havoc (5 on 5).

 

[DapperCam]

Skinner is not being bought out this year. It makes zero sense. We save cap this year and then barely any in the next two years. And then three years of a heavy penalty. In 2025-26, we'd have to find a better player than Skinner for $4.5 M. We won't. The buyout talk is emotional and not rational.

Buy him out before the last season of the deal.

The last half of the year Skinner looked completely cooked. He's never been the fastest skater, but it was like he was moving in mud. In February, March and April he had 13 points in 33 games and his TOI dipped to 3.5-4 minutes less than the start of the year.

Maybe he was hurt and the offseason will allow him to heal. Maybe he was just disinterested and a new coach will provide some novelty for him. But if that is the version of Skinner moving forward, we could replace him with a $2.5m player easily. And that new player probably would make less bone headed lazy plays, and wouldn't have the opportunity to waste one of our PP units.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I 100% agree. People can do it but it's spinning your wheels. Ruff will get one year to work with Skinner and see if they can find common ground. My guess is he will find common ground. He will demand more all-out effort from Skinner but he will not be as obsessed about his D play as fans on social are. Daniel Briere was not exactly a guy who played in his own end but he was a pit bull around the net and hard-nosed. He played an offensive game but not a soft one. I expect Skinner to be asked to get back to his game where is far chippier, draws a ton of penalties and makes other teams super angry. Skinner stopped skating the last couple of months of year. Maybe he was injured. We need Skinner that causes havoc (5 on 5).

I think he'll be just as awful as ever and will prevent the team from being as good as they can be because Ruff is forced to try to find a way to work with him.

 

[Der Jaeger]

There are very specific things I think need to happen for Skinner to get traded. It's only to Toronto, which he won't use his NMC on.

Thing 1 which needs to happen: the rumored Saros for Marner trade. Moving Saros makes sense for Nashville. He's 30 next season, his last under contract. Askarov is up and coming. And Nashville has a big cap hit coming for the 25-26 season when the big year of Duchene's buyout hits.

Nashville needs to improve it's roster while maintaining a reasonable cap. Adding Marner would be a huge add. Nashville's roster is flush with good soldiers but few big time scorers. Marner would change that. Plus, the change of scenery might help Marner become an even better player. Nashville is a small town compared to Toronto, and they'll love him there.

Nashville eats a lot of dead cap this season, and then they could allocate money which would've went to Saros to Marner. Then Trotz will need to fill in around Marner for a season.

For Toronto, they lose Marner but add the goalie that they need to get over the playoff hump. Toronto was way more dangerous when Matthews was in "Auston and the animals" role as the goal scoring center between two wingers willing to do the dirty work. So this is a step toward building a more playoff ready roster.

Trading Marner essentially voids their Bertuzzi-Domi-Marner line. Matthews would be the 1C with maybe Knies and another worker at wing. Tavares and Nylander are line 2. The defense is looking good and only needing 5-7 defenders. Kampf and Jarnkrok make up a good bottom six start. But they'd need more.

The Sabres step in an offer Skinner+ with 50% retention. The Leafs get Skinner for $4.5M for three seasons, which is reasonable. He could help drive a bottom 6 line in 5v5 play, which is what the Leafs need.

The Sabres free up $4.5M for 3 seasons, which they'll need.

This is the only scenario I see where Skinner is moved. A lot needs to happen and it's pretty specific. So, I don't think he's moved this season or bought out.

 

[Archie Lee]

Skinner is not being bought out this year. It makes zero sense. We save cap this year and then barely any in the next two years. And then three years of a heavy penalty. In 2025-26, we'd have to find a better player than Skinner for $4.5 M. We won't. The buyout talk is emotional and not rational.

Buy him out before the last season of the deal.

Respectfully, I think it makes zero sense to worry about the $2.44 million buyout cost from 27-28 to 29-30 (when the cap may well be $100 million) when you can use $7.55 in space this year to bring in players who would dramatically reshape your roster.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I think he'll be just as awful as ever and will prevent the team from being as good as they can be because Ruff is forced to try to find a way to work with him.

This idea he was awful is not reality. His even-strength stats are not that bad. There were so many worst players on the Sabres, especially 5 on 5. He probably doesn't belong on PP and certainly has no business on ice 3 on 3.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

This idea he was awful is not reality. His even-strength stats are not that bad. There were so many worst players on the Sabres, especially 5 on 5. He probably doesn't belong on PP and certainly has no business on ice 3 on 3.

I disagree. He certainly has great games when he feels like showing up, but he can't be relied upon to do it night-in and night-out, or with any consistency, which makes him have very little value in my opinion.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

It’s always very cut and dry on here when it comes to Skinner and his “NMC.” It’s only “Toronto” or nothing. It’s been 5 years in Buffalo. People have been known to change. MAYBE he’d be open to more than just one destination.

So would say Chicago take him for $5.5/6?

We say all the time it’s KA’s moment this summer….this is the angle he needs to push. Ottawa is not that far away, nor is Montreal.

Skinner has scored over thirty+ 2 out of the last 3 seasons…. That’s gotta be the going rate (5.5/6) for a goal scorer.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I disagree. He certainly has great games when he feels like showing up, but he can't be relied upon to do it night-in and night-out, or with any consistency, which makes him have very little value in my opinion.

Other than a year ago, when you would not have said that. Skinner disappears but there are guys in the lineup doing nothing. I get the frustration with a stupid $9 M cap but that is done.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Other than a year ago, when you would not have said that. Skinner disappears but there are guys in the lineup doing nothing. I get the frustration with a stupid $9 M cap but that is done.

I did say this exact thing a year ago -- I also said it two years ago. I've wanted him gone for a long time.

No one else in the lineup is as inconsistent and frustrating as Skinner. No one is even close.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Respectfully, I think it makes zero sense to worry about the $2.44 million buyout cost from 27-28 to 29-30 (when the cap may well be $100 million) when you can use $7.55 in space this year to bring in players who would dramatically reshape your roster.

The cap will go up, the cap will up -- says every cap-strapped team. It's a moot point anyway because Terry's version of Sabres doesn't spend to cap and the money you save on Skinner is very likely not to be spent on someone else. It's a Pegula world. You want to buy out Skinner to give his spot to someone like Isek Rosen, then do it. Because that's all that will happen. And you'll save Pegula 1/3 of remaining contract minus cost of an entry deal.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I did say this exact thing a year ago -- I also said it two years ago. I've wanted him gone for a long time.

No one else in the lineup is as inconsistent and frustrating as Skinner. No one is even close.

Sure. Get me more of Krebs and his four goals. Girgensons doing almost nothing most nights. I love Cozens a lot more, but I wouldn't call him consistent last year. So many holes in lineup and Skinner plugs in some 5 on 5 time. And like other poster said, he is not being bought out. Zero chance.

 

[Dingo44]

Make it a twofer Bennett and Lomberg

I did say this exact thing a year ago -- I also said it two years ago. I've wanted him gone for a long time.

No one else in the lineup is as inconsistent and frustrating as Skinner. No one is even close.

He's also our second leading goal scorer the last three years and is averaging 31 goals a year. Inconsistent and frustrating is the way of your typical streaky NHL goal scorer.

He has his warts for sure but it's not like he gives us nothing. He's scored some key goals for us too.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Sure. Get me more of Krebs and his four goals. Girgensons doing almost nothing most nights. I love Cozens a lot more, but I wouldn't call him consistent last year. So many holes in lineup and Skinner plugs in some 5 on 5 time. And like other poster said, he is not being bought out. Zero chance.

Krebs and Girgs put more effort into each game than Skinner does for a month. I'm talking about consistent effort, not production. Not sure how else I can say that.

 

[DapperCam]

Sure. Get me more of Krebs and his four goals. Girgensons doing almost nothing most nights. I love Cozens a lot more, but I wouldn't call him consistent last year. So many holes in lineup and Skinner plugs in some 5 on 5 time. And like other poster said, he is not being bought out. Zero chance.

Girgensons and Krebs played on checking lines with heavy dzone starts, zero PP time, way less TOI, and less offensively skilled linemates. Who is more likely to set up a goal, Jost and old man Okposo, or Tage and Tuch? Your comparison is so apples and oranges that it's pointless.

How about Peterka slides up to LW1, a FA vet signing slides into LW2, and Benson/Greenway fill that side in the bottom 6. No Krebs or Girgensons involved there.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

He's also our second leading goal scorer the last three years and is averaging 31 goals a year. Inconsistent and frustrating is the way of your typical streaky NHL goal scorer.

He has his warts for sure but it's not like he gives us nothing. He's scored some key goals for us too.

I'm solely talking about effort. He doesn't put in effort every game which is 100% unacceptable on any winning team. It should disqualify any player from any team, frankly.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I'm curious to see what Mittlestadt signs for, if he comes in over 6.2 then Cirelli could be a steal with the rising cap. If he comes in under or around the same then I don't know what Buffalo was thinking.

Really it all depends on what the cap is moving to and if it's going to keep rising, if it stays the same or only goes up 1 to 2 million a season then 6.2 for a 3C is absolutely bonkers.

 

[Dingo44]

Krebs and Girgs put more effort into each game than Skinner does for a month. I'm talking about consistent effort, not production. Not sure how else I can say that.

Production > Effort. That's just the way of the world. There is no "Most Effort" Award. If so, the "Hardest Working Team in Hockey" during Teds Nolans Volume 1 would have won the Cup.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Production > Effort. That's just the way of the world. There is no "Most Effort" Award. If so, the "Hardest Working Team in Hockey" during Teds Nolans Volume 1 would have won the Cup.

I strongly disagree. You need both -- streaky production is fine if the consistent effort is there, because success only comes when all 5 guys are playing on the same page. One rotten apple ruins the entire thing in hockey. All five guys don't need to produce points all the time, but they do need to play the right way....all the time.

 

[BG82]

Call Ottawa..Offer Jiri Kulich, Noah Ostlund, Ryan Johnson and 2024 1st and get Brady Tkachuk

Extend Brady Tkachuk

Off season complete

Adding a cornerstone top 6 winger with the pedigree of Tkachuk would be that Homerun move we need to not only get into post season but sustain post season success

We built from the back out with UPL, Levi, Byram, OP, Ras, Joker and Sammy.

 

[Dingo44]

I strongly disagree. You need both -- streaky production is fine if the consistent effort is there, because success only comes when all 5 guys are playing on the same page. One rotten apple ruins the entire thing in hockey. All five guys don't need to produce points all the time, but they do need to play the right way....all the time.

How many more wins would the Sabres have had over the last three years if Skinner wasn't on the team?

i know this going back and forth is a pointless exercise because it's really personal with you and Skinner obviously and logical arguments aren't effective in winning arguments against emotional feelings.

I'm not a Skinner fanboy but I can see the numbers and with the NMC it makes zero sense financially to buy out Skinner before next season. I doubt he waves - and Toronto would not be interested even at 50% retention. But the good news is Skinner still scores goals and gets assists and he's not as much of an analytics black hole as Oloffson. I also doubt Adams is even considering a buyout this year.

 

[Beerz]

I strongly disagree. You need both -- streaky production is fine if the consistent effort is there, because success only comes when all 5 guys are playing on the same page. One rotten apple ruins the entire thing in hockey. All five guys don't need to produce points all the time, but they do need to play the right way....all the time.

Who is playing the right way all the time on this team?

Benson? Maybe Dahlin

I'm curious to see what Mittlestadt signs for, if he comes in over 6.2 then Cirelli could be a steal with the rising cap. If he comes in under or around the same then I don't know what Buffalo was thinking.

Really it all depends on what the cap is moving to and if it's going to keep rising, if it stays the same or only goes up 1 to 2 million a season then 6.2 for a 3C is absolutely bonkers.

Adams could of had Mittlestadt for 5-to 5.5 last year early in the season if he were smart.

Edit: I mean earlier this year

 

[Archie Lee]

The cap will go up, the cap will up -- says every cap-strapped team. It's a moot point anyway because Terry's version of Sabres doesn't spend to cap and the money you save on Skinner is very likely not to be spent on someone else. It's a Pegula world. You want to buy out Skinner to give his spot to someone like Isek Rosen, then do it. Because that's all that will happen. And you'll save Pegula 1/3 of remaining contract minus cost of an entry deal.

This is fair and probably true. If we are not going to be a cap team then a buyout doesn’t make a lot of sense. But, “Pegula won’t spend” is not the same as a buyout makes “zero sense”. Many of the teams in the playoffs, including two still competing, had dead cap hits more than $2.44 million this year. If you are doing all you can to win this off-season, you buyout Skinner.

 

[Beerz]

This is fair and probably true. If we are not going to be a cap team then a buyout doesn’t make a lot of sense. But, “Pegula won’t spend” is not the same as a buyout makes “zero sense”. Many of the teams in the playoffs, including two still competing, had dead cap hits more than $2.44 million this year. If you are doing all you can to win this off-season, you buyout Skinner.

We don't need Skinners cap hit THIS year.

We have like 24 million of cap space with only UPL to sign that is going to take any significant cap space... unless we do plan on keeping Joker.