The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Doug Prishpreed]

It isn't true though. You can be as aggressive as you want, it just forces you into hard decisions next year.

A few simple things they can do now eases it a bit. Keep Levi in Rochester the whole year and get a veteran backup forces him to sign a cheap contract next summer. Play hardball if you have to.

You likely have to decide between Byram and Samuelsson. If Clifton is still a bottom pair d-man, buyout his last year. Be willing to buyout Skinner and know his 'bad' cap year will be offset by the cap going up.

If you get really aggressive you might have to decide between Tuch long term or one of Quinn and Peterka. And that is fine.

Good teams have this problem. The idea that we can only do half measures to fix our problems this summer after 13 years out of the playoffs is pure, unadulterated horseshit

Win now. You have a literal army of prospects coming in the pipe, several of which should be ready this year or next. This isn't time to do disciplined moves, it's time for Adams to show he can be a GM and not peddle excuses before the offseason even begins.

You are literally describing being disciplined. I just think you are reading way too much into that one word. I see it as a good thing. Refusing to sign Pat Kane to a 6-year deal is disciplined, and that's a good thing.

And he might want to keep both Sammy and Byram -- he might also want to keep all three of Tuch, Quinn, and Peterka. How does that in any way indicate that they aren't willing to spend? Your logic is all over the place.

I was responding to your post that said Adams isn't willing to spend. In response, you list a lot of guys he's going to have to get rid of? All that does is prove the opposite, that he is willing to spend, if he has to unload contracts in order to do anything.

 

[OkimLom]

Not that I disagree with you ... but I think it's both.

First, just re-read the first sentence from my post. My apologies for the condescending tone, I didn't mean for it to come off that way.

Second, I think the Sabres management/coaching toxicity brought the worst out of the players and weighed heavily on the guys. Reinhart through his drafting process, was never scouted as that sort of player. He was often scouted as someone with a more professional sense of the game. He had pretty glowing reviews on how he conducted himself. It's odd how once he got to a more stable situation he went back to how he was when we first drafted/scouted him.

Eichel, I don't think he really had any toxicity to him, but I do think he was somewhat of a unique personality, that some people probably weren't used to having around. He came off more as someone (and I'm not trying to insult anybody, or downplay it, just an observation of the closest I can think of) that may have been on the spectrum, or close to that just based on how awkward generally he was with any sort of public interactions and with the media.

 

[Ace]

Jesus, did Victor absolutely sink every line he played on? No wonder Adams couldn't trade him.

And yet he also thought...hey maybe he can replace Quinn so i won't do anything!

 

[jc17]

A couple things to me about Krebs…

1. In the couple seasons he’s played with us, I can’t recall where I’ve been impressed with his game. I’ve appreciated that he embraced the pest role with Girgs/Okie, and he’s tried to be a fourth line banger but he’s supposed to be a skill guy that hasn’t even shown flashes of nhl skill.

there were some stretches this year where he showed flashes. But a lot of those times he tried to do too much in the o zone. Hoping he can be coached out of that stuff

I also think he's a good culture guy.

If he's not on the roster I won't be heartbroken, but I'm willing to give him another opportunity as depth. If the results are brutal he can sit

 

[TehDoak]

You are literally describing being disciplined. I just think you are reading way too much into that one word. I see it as a good thing. Refusing to sign Pat Kane to a 6-year deal is disciplined, and that's a good thing.

And he might want to keep both Sammy and Byram -- he might also want to keep all three of Tuch, Quinn, and Peterka. How does that in any way indicate that they aren't willing to spend? Your logic is all over the place.

I was responding to your post that said Adams isn't willing to spend. In response, you list a lot of guys he's going to have to get rid of? All that does is prove the opposite, that he is willing to spend, if he has to unload contracts in order to do anything.

We have heard waaaaaay too much Adams doublespeak over the years to simply ignore it when he adds a qualifier to something. He's not saying "We're going to make additions to the team", he says "Well its important that its a disciplined addition", especially when he cites future RFAs as a reason.

Maybe you are right, maybe I'm reading too much into what wasn't even an exact quote. Just like 'Not blocking the kids' was really 'we aren't going to spend money', disciplined additions' feels like "keep your expectations low"

 

[Jim Bob]

We have heard waaaaaay too much Adams doublespeak over the years to simply ignore it when he adds a qualifier to something. He's not saying "We're going to make additions to the team", he says "Well its important that its a disciplined addition", especially when he cites future RFAs as a reason.

Maybe you are right, maybe I'm reading too much into what wasn't even an exact quote. Just like 'Not blocking the kids' was really 'we aren't going to spend money', disciplined additions' feels like "keep your expectations low"

With the response being to a question about UFAs, I like a disciplined approach as most "aggressive" UFA deals tend to be regrettable.

Few long term deals that cover only UFA years end up being smart signings. Skinner and Okposo being the last two Sabres deals that fall into that category, for instance.

 

[Fjordy]

We have heard waaaaaay too much Adams doublespeak over the years to simply ignore it when he adds a qualifier to something. He's not saying "We're going to make additions to the team", he says "Well its important that its a disciplined addition", especially when he cites future RFAs as a reason.

Maybe you are right, maybe I'm reading too much into what wasn't even an exact quote. Just like 'Not blocking the kids' was really 'we aren't going to spend money', disciplined additions' feels like "keep your expectations low"

This is a key offseason for Adams, you'd be a fool to do almost nothing, and it's not like we need too much, we just need some spot improvements and some tough guys that aren't that hard to come by.

With the response being to a question about UFAs, I like a disciplined approach as most "aggressive" UFA deals tend to be regrettable.

Few long term deals that cover only UFA years end up being smart signings. Skinner and Okposo being the last two Sabres deals that fall into that category, for instance.

No one is asking to sign him to Toffoli on 6M x 5Y, but there are interesting options there that could be useful for us. There are also trades.

 

[Jim Bob]

No one is asking to sign him to Toffoli on 6M x 5Y, but there are interesting options there that could be useful for us. There are also trades.

The question was not about trades. It was specifically about UFAs.

And I would not expect Adams to make a major, undisciplined UFA signing this summer.

 

[Fjordy]

The question was not about trades. It was specifically about UFAs.

And I would not expect Adams to make a major, undisciplined UFA signing this summer.

I don't expect either, especially we probably don't need a forward signed for many years and many millions. Although we could use someone like Roy or DeMelo on the second pair to play with Byram. But if they are counting on Sammy as a top 4 D, then maybe someone like Dillon on the third pair.

 

[Dingo44]

I don't expect either, especially we probably don't need a forward signed for many years and many millions. Although we could use someone like Roy or DeMelo on the second pair to play with Byram. But if they are counting on Sammy as a top 4 D, then maybe someone like Dillon on the third pair.

Understand there are reasonable GMs who don't want to pay older players to long term expensive deals that will probably go south in a couple of years, but they are competing against the dumber GMs willing to pay big money with term and NMC's. Not to mention Buffalo is not an attractive destination right now so Adams will have to pay a lot more than some teams for the same player.

We can't have an offseason like last year but I imagine we're going to see the more important moves via trades than buy signing UFA's.

 

[Ace]

On Sabres Live they asked Dreger if Vegas was really after Marner. He replied with “Kelly McCrimmon knows his job description..and it is to win Stanley Cups”.

Then I returned to our board to see a discussion about Adams’ discipline comments and the never ending fear of the future cap.

Loser mentality leads to constant losing.

If your big problem with having talent is that you’ll have to eventually move some that teams will value…you don’t have a problem. If your problem is that you don’t have enough talent because you have been pissing your pants about the 2027 salary cap for three f***ing years…you’re us. And you have a giant problem.

 

[Jim Bob]

On Sabres Live they asked Dreger if Vegas was really after Marner. He replied with “Kelly McCrimmon knows his job description..and it is to win Stanley Cups”.

Then I returned to our board to see a discussion about Adams’ discipline comments and the never ending fear of the future cap.

Loser mentality leads to constant losing.

If your big problem with having talent is that you’ll have to eventually move some that teams will value…you don’t have a problem. If your problem is that you don’t have enough talent because you have been pissing your pants about the 2027 salary cap for three f***ing years…you’re us. And you have a giant problem.

Perhaps Adams knows his job as much as McCrimmon does?

 

[Fjordy]

Understand there are reasonable GMs who don't want to pay older players to long term expensive deals that will probably go south in a couple of years, but they are competing against the dumber GMs willing to pay big money with term and NMC's. Not to mention Buffalo is not an attractive destination right now so Adams will have to pay a lot more than some teams for the same player.

We can't have an offseason like last year but I imagine we're going to see the more important moves via trades than buy signing UFA's.

Well what did I write? Same thing, we don't need those signings. While I like some of the players in UFA and would like Adams to sign some of them to UFA, they are mostly fourth line players or as I said guys like Roy/DeMelo/Dillon.

 

[Dingo44]

Well what did I write? Same thing, we don't need those signings. While I like some of the players in UFA and would like Adams to sign some of them to UFA, they are mostly fourth line players or as I said guys like Roy/DeMelo/Dillon.

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

We have heard waaaaaay too much Adams doublespeak over the years to simply ignore it when he adds a qualifier to something. He's not saying "We're going to make additions to the team", he says "Well its important that its a disciplined addition", especially when he cites future RFAs as a reason.

Maybe you are right, maybe I'm reading too much into what wasn't even an exact quote. Just like 'Not blocking the kids' was really 'we aren't going to spend money', disciplined additions' feels like "keep your expectations low"

I just don't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth right now...mainly because he has to keep his cards close to the vest with other GMs are trying to take advantage of him on a daily basis in June. I really think we have to wait until we see what he does over the next months to draw any conclusions.

I don't really like what he's done so far, so I'm not defending him, but he has the opportunity to really put together a seriously good team for next season. He also has the opportunity to totally shit the bed, and I don't think anything he's said has indicated which way he'll go yet. I'm definitely nervous.

 

[Dingo44]

I just don't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth right now...mainly because he has to keep his cards close to the vest with other GMs are trying to take advantage of him on a daily basis in June. I really think we have to wait until we see what he does over the next months to draw any conclusions.

I don't really like what he's done so far, so I'm not defending him, but he has the opportunity to really put together a seriously good team for next season. He also has the opportunity to totally shit the bed, and I don't think anything he's said has indicated which way he'll go yet. I'm definitely nervous.

Based on what he has said I imagine we end up with a few bottom six players with size and jam. Not sure if they will be the right players - I'm hoping Ventura's staff has located some players we can get and who can stay around for a while. He has to have a plan A, plan B, and plan C already in place.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

On Sabres Live they asked Dreger if Vegas was really after Marner. He replied with “Kelly McCrimmon knows his job description..and it is to win Stanley Cups”.

Then I returned to our board to see a discussion about Adams’ discipline comments and the never ending fear of the future cap.

Loser mentality leads to constant losing.

If your big problem with having talent is that you’ll have to eventually move some that teams will value…you don’t have a problem. If your problem is that you don’t have enough talent because you have been pissing your pants about the 2027 salary cap for three f***ing years…you’re us. And you have a giant problem.

Disciplined doesn't mean that you aren't bold. Adams needs to be both bold and disciplined.

It's much different when you're in your "win now" window, with a team full of guys on their last NHL contracts. You can easily sacrifice the future. When you're playing with a team full of 25-yr old's, you have to approach things differently.

Adams absolutely needs to be disciplined, or we could end up in another rebuild. He also needs to be bold, and he hasn't proven he can do that yet. The time is now.

Based on what he has said I imagine we end up with a few bottom six players with size and jam. Not sure if they will be the right players - I'm hoping Ventura's staff has located some players we can get and who can stay around for a while. He has to have a plan A, plan B, and plan C already in place.

I just hope it's the Trenins of the league that we add, instead of the O'Briens of the league.

 

[Dingo44]

Disciplined doesn't mean that you aren't bold. Adams needs to be both bold and disciplined.

It's much different when you're in your "win now" window, with a team full of guys on their last NHL contracts. You can easily sacrifice the future. When you're playing with a team full of 25-yr old's, you have to approach things differently.

Adams absolutely needs to be disciplined, or we could end up in another rebuild. He also needs to be bold, and he hasn't proven he can do that yet. The time is now.


I just hope it's the Trenins of the league that we add, instead of the O'Briens of the league.

Not to mention Vegas can pick up pending UFA's knowing they have a good chance to keep them. For example - Hanifin was "looking for Eastern teams only" and it appeared that Tampa had the inside track to get him - but Vegas was able to convince him to sign. We don't have the same luxury in Buffalo.

 

[Jim Bob]

Based on what he has said I imagine we end up with a few bottom six players with size and jam. Not sure if they will be the right players - I'm hoping Ventura's staff has located some players we can get and who can stay around for a while. He has to have a plan A, plan B, and plan C already in place.

I expect the depth guys to be the UFA targets and the rumor mill has Adams shopping for a top 6 F in the trade market.

That makes sense to me.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Not to mention Vegas can pick up pending UFA's knowing they have a good chance to keep them. For example - Hanifin was "looking for Eastern teams only" and it appeared that Tampa had the inside track to get him - but Vegas was able to convince him to sign. We don't have the same luxury in Buffalo.

Exactly -- that's absolutely HUGE for a team.

In a related point, I don't understand why Toronto and the Rangers haven't totally figured out how to leverage that yet, though I'm thankful.

 

[Matt Ress]

Would be an incredible injection of production and juice.

I assume it would take minimum 2 / 6.5M to lure him here, scary for a 34 year old. Having another big winger contract overlap with Skinner and Tuch still here plus JJ and Quinn's raises feels like too much.

I'd do a one-year cash splash that eats up our remaining cap, but he'd only consider that if the market truly spurns him. I imagine someone like Seattle or Vancouver will cave and give him 2-3 years for 7M.

Eh I would be too worried March would see it as a retirement tour. Big money, probably not his first choice in destinations and seemingly crappy team and all the while you shit away all your cap opportunities. Prefer a younger version with piss and vinegar.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm still warm to the idea of someone like Brayden Schenn from the Blues. He has some tread on the tire, plays a reliable top 6 productivity and could be a part-time C if they need to flex around Thompson or Cozens being out. And his NTC doesn't kick in until next July 1st, only features 15 teams. I wonder if someone like Rosen could be of interest to the Blues as part of that sort of package? Or say Kulich straight up?

 

[Beerz]

First, just re-read the first sentence from my post. My apologies for the condescending tone, I didn't mean for it to come off that way.

Second, I think the Sabres management/coaching toxicity brought the worst out of the players and weighed heavily on the guys. Reinhart through his drafting process, was never scouted as that sort of player. He was often scouted as someone with a more professional sense of the game. He had pretty glowing reviews on how he conducted himself. It's odd how once he got to a more stable situation he went back to how he was when we first drafted/scouted him.

Eichel, I don't think he really had any toxicity to him, but I do think he was somewhat of a unique personality, that some people probably weren't used to having around. He came off more as someone (and I'm not trying to insult anybody, or downplay it, just an observation of the closest I can think of) that may have been on the spectrum, or close to that just based on how awkward generally he was with any sort of public interactions and with the media.

Your tone was fine. I didn't take it as condescending. And I agree about Sam's behavior/attitude and Jacks

I'm still warm to the idea of someone like Brayden Schenn from the Blues. He has some tread on the tire, plays a reliable top 6 productivity and could be a part-time C if they need to flex around Thompson or Cozens being out. And his NTC doesn't kick in until next July 1st, only features 15 teams. I wonder if someone like Rosen could be of interest to the Blues as part of that sort of package? Or say Kulich straight up?

I'd pass on that price. I'd do Rosen but not Kulich.

 

[dickiedunnwrotethis]

Disciplined doesn't mean that you aren't bold. Adams needs to be both bold and disciplined.

It's much different when you're in your "win now" window, with a team full of guys on their last NHL contracts. You can easily sacrifice the future. When you're playing with a team full of 25-yr old's, you have to approach things differently.

Adams absolutely needs to be disciplined, or we could end up in another rebuild. He also needs to be bold, and he hasn't proven he can do that yet. The time is now.


I just hope it's the Trenins of the league that we add, instead of the O'Briens of the league.

I think the Byram trade can be characterized as bold. I believe it was ill-advised move then and my opinion has only solidified over time, but it wasn't timid.

 

[Fjordy]

I'm still warm to the idea of someone like Brayden Schenn from the Blues. He has some tread on the tire, plays a reliable top 6 productivity and could be a part-time C if they need to flex around Thompson or Cozens being out. And his NTC doesn't kick in until next July 1st, only features 15 teams. I wonder if someone like Rosen could be of interest to the Blues as part of that sort of package? Or say Kulich straight up?

I just hope he hasn't started his downfall.