The Reckoning is upon us

[Sens of Anarchy]

Johnson: Andlauer and Staios will not concede this season

NHL analyst Mike Johnson on the Oilers and Senators fanbases, Canucks incredible start to the season and Rich Tocchet, DJ Smith facing criticism and accountability on the Senators.

www.tsn.ca

Discussed accountability
15:00 ;
playing better defense has to be priority number 1 .
Team Defense has to be the focus as it should have been for the past several seasons.

 

[BondraTime]

Friedman says that if they want Darche or any of the Asst. GM's around the league, they will have to wait until the offseason. Shocker

Doesn't even think the Sens would be able to get Gruden out of the AHL for our head coach job because the season has started.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Friedman says that if they want Darche or any of the Asst. GM's around the league, they will have to wait until the offseason. Shocker

Doesn't even think the Sens would be able to get Gruden out of the AHL for our head coach job because the season has started.

Basically what we’ve already discussed. Unless you want Capuano as the interim head coach then we get the Deej.

 

[HF Reader]

I somewhat agree here. I think they know who they want, I think they had to fire PD early, and I think they want the GM to pick the coach.

I have never though that Andlauer nor Staios view this season in the same way as Sens fans as they have never expressed any expectations of playoffs.

There has been an immediate divergence of fan expectations and ownership and POHO expectations for this team.

Fans want it now, and the new guys have been moving slowly and deliberately to build
The thing they want to build.

I would expect more of the same until things fall in to place top down before I would expect a fast move to save the season.

Dunno, maybe they blink first but I don’t think everyone is on the same page here at the moment.


I like this post but have to say that I’m losing any sort of hope that Bath will use his physicality. He’s a stick and dipsy doodle guy right now. Sanderson, Pinto, and Norris don’t seem to physically engage much either.

We don’t know until a new coach runs a new system and new expectations though.

I agree that there is an optimal sequence to the hiring process (GM picks coach) and I agree that MA and SS are more patient than the fans who want immediate results and an immediate house-cleaning.

My guess is that if the sale had been completed in the spring these organizational changes would have been set over the summer.

For now, if possible, I would like to see an interim coach who emphasizes defence. The sooner the team instills defensive responsibility the better.

Alas, here we are.

 

[Mingus Dew]

The fans want immediate changes and results because we have been experiencing this garbage for years now.

Andlauer and Staois are like a few months in. What's one wasted season to them?

For us, obviously, it's ANOTHER wasted season and that sucks.

 

[DaveMatthew]

The fans want immediate changes and results because we have been experiencing this garbage for years now.

Andlauer and Staois are like a few months in. What's one wasted season to them?

For us, obviously, it's ANOTHER wasted season and that sucks.

I'd imagine Andlauer wants to sell tickets. He just paid a significant amount for the team, is already icing the most expensive team in history, and salaries + the pressure to spend will only go up as the cap rises.

This market is on the verge of tuning out completely. There was a shot of excitement with the sale, but memories are short. If the team essentially eliminates itself from the playoffs, yet again, by the end of November, it'll be a lean winter in the stands. "Same old same old" is what people will say.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I'd imagine Andlauer wants to sell tickets. He just paid a significant amount for the team, is already icing the most expensive team in history, and salaries + the pressure to spend will only go up as the cap rises.

This market is on the verge of tuning out completely. There was a shot of excitement with the sale, but memories are short. If the team essentially eliminates itself from the playoffs, yet again, by the end of November, it'll be a lean winter in the stands. "Same old same old" is what people will say.

I mean I hope not but maybe.

It's just one year. Andlauer weathers the storm then in the offseason brings in a new GM and new coach - optimism back in town, folks pay up. All is right with the world in the nation's capital.

It sucks but I think it's the most likely outcome. You don't bring short-term thinking to a billion dollar deal.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I mean I hope not but maybe.

It's just one year. Andlauer weathers the storm then in the offseason brings in a new GM and new coach - optimism back in town, folks pay up. All is right with the world in the nation's capital.

It sucks but I think it's the most likely outcome. You don't bring short-term thinking to a billion dollar deal.

I'm not so sure. Look how toxic it already is, 10 games in. Another full season of losing will do a lot of damage.

Who knows what kind of comments Brady Tkachuk will be making if they have to play out the stretch with no chance at the playoffs, yet again.

The booing and the chants aren't going to stop.

It doesn't take much for fans to turn on a player. Look at what happened with Karlsson here. Hero to zero in the span of 8 months.

You can only sell hope for so long.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I'm not so sure. Look how toxic it already is, 10 games in. Another full season of losing will do a lot of damage.

Who knows what kind of comments Brady Tkachuk will be making if they have to play out the stretch with no chance at the playoffs, yet again.

The booing and the chants aren't going to stop.

pretty sure the fans will just turn to apathy, will be a low pressure environment just like how brady and co like it.

 

[DaveMatthew]

pretty sure the fans will just turn to apathy, will be a low pressure environment just like how brady and co like it.

I suppose. Crazy Horse will remain open whether they win or lose. It's more fun going if you didn't spend 120 minutes getting booed before.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Basically what we’ve already discussed. Unless you want Capuano as the interim head coach then we get the Deej.

Numerous coaches would be available now: Claude Julien, Gerard Gallant, Bruce Boudreau, Darryl Sutter, Patrick Roy, Marc Savard, David Carle.

 

[Mingus Dew]

pretty sure the fans will just turn to apathy, will be a low pressure environment just like how brady and co like it.

This is the correct answer.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'd imagine Andlauer wants to sell tickets. He just paid a significant amount for the team, is already icing the most expensive team in history, and salaries + the pressure to spend will only go up as the cap rises.

This market is on the verge of tuning out completely. There was a shot of excitement with the sale, but memories are short. If the team essentially eliminates itself from the playoffs, yet again, by the end of November, it'll be a lean winter in the stands. "Same old same old" is what people will say.

This is such an underrated issue imo. Andlauer and Staios didn't seem to be as optimistic about the state of the team as some, but surely they don't want to end up with another throw away season. 6 years of a shite on ice product is a long time, rebuilding or not.

I will still watch games, but the urgency to make it a priority is almost dead again this year already. It's hard to be optimistic when it's been so bad for so long. f***ing sucks.

 

[DaveMatthew]

This is such an underrated issue imo. Andlauer and Staios didn't seem to be as optimistic about the state of the team as some, but surely they don't want to end up with another throw away season. 6 years of a shite on ice product is a long time, rebuilding or not.

I will still watch games, but the urgency to make it a priority is almost dead again this year already. It's hard to be optimistic when it's been so bad for so long. f***ing sucks.

And it's not like the seas will be parting for the Senators next year. Montreal will be better. Buffalo will be better. Detroit will be better. Plus, the cap is going to start rising quickly. That benefits Toronto, Tampa and Florida. They'll finally start to be able to add salary again.

It's going to be a tough road ahead. Soon, talk of rebuilding the rebuild will start.

They need to turn it around this season.

 

[Sensinitis]

Andlauer and Staois are like a few months in. What's one wasted season to them?

For us, obviously, it's ANOTHER wasted season and that sucks.

This is a business at the end of the day, and there's cap implications. I highly doubt they're writing off this season in their objective of being first class.

Our window of contention is directly related to having the core on affordable contracts and this is one of those years where it's the case (except Pinto of course).

It's a certainty that they at least want to make the playoffs with this team, we're right up against the cap and a lot of core guys are reaching that age where inexperience is not an excuse anymore.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

And it's not like the seas will be parting for the Senators next year. Montreal will be better. Buffalo will be better. Detroit will be better. Plus, the cap is going to start rising quickly. That benefits Toronto, Tampa and Florida. They'll finally start to be able to add salary again.

It's going to be a tough road ahead. Soon, talk of rebuilding the rebuild will start.

They need to turn it around this season.

I agree. Continuing to write off seasons is not as simple as some suggest. I'm hoping they can claw their way back here as all is not lost if they can string a couple together.

Seeing rebuilds take upwards of 6 or more throwaway seasons is just not good enough imo.

 

[Mingus Dew]

This is a business at the end of the day, and there's cap implications. I highly doubt they're writing off this season in their objective of being first class.

Our window of contention is directly related to having the core on affordable contracts and this is one of those years where it's the case (except Pinto of course).

It's a certainty that they at least want to make the playoffs with this team, we're right up against the cap and a lot of core guys are reaching that age where inexperience is not an excuse anymore.

I'm not saying they are happy with the current state of affairs. And I'm sure all things held equal they'd much prefer that the team make the playoffs (bit obvious that).

But they are faced with two alternatives. Either they (i) fire the coach now to appease the fanbase and MAYBE save the season (I think it's a long shot that a coaching change has that immediate of an impact but there is precedent), thus leaving them with a limited pool of replacements and a need to potentially reshuffle again when a new GM is named or (ii) wait till the end of the year, probably no playoffs, and hire their top choices at GM and coach with the aim of competing in 2024.

If these guys had been at the helm for the past 10 years or something I think it's more likely they firesale this thing and react immediately. But they haven't and they won't, in my opinion.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I'm not saying they are happy with the current state of affairs. And I'm sure all things held equal they'd much prefer that the team make the playoffs (bit obvious that).

But they are faced with two alternatives. Either they (i) fire the coach now to appease the fanbase and MAYBE save the season (I think it's a long shot that a coaching change has that immediate of an impact but there is precedent), thus leaving them with a limited pool of replacements and a need to potentially reshuffle again when a new GM is named or (ii) wait till the end of the year, probably no playoffs, and hire their top choices at GM and coach with the aim of competing in 2024.

If these guys had been at the helm for the past 10 years or something I think it's more likely they firesale this thing and react immediately. But they haven't and they won't, in my opinion.

They don't need to fire the coach to save the season. I'm not at all convinced that with a new coach, this team will all of a sudden go on some huge run. But they need to fire the coach to:

a) Properly evaluate the players they currently have. We've seen them under DJ. What will they be under a different voice? This offseason will have a lot of big decisions. What do you do with Chabot? Is Batherson a long-term fit? Do you re-sign Chychrun, and for how much? You need to get a head start on those evaluations and decisions.

b) To stop the negativity. Change the conversation. It's getting to be toxic and untenable. Fans are lashing out during games. Players are lashing in the media. At some point, it's going to be irreversible.

I honestly don't understand why this group of players has chosen to go with the "woe is us, we don't need the criticism" message versus taking accountability.... but it's not going to go over well.

If they lose tomorrow in Toronto, there is going to be an incredible amount of vitriol directed their way.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lets say they change the coaching staff and it takes some time to get their changes in place on how the team is expected to play.
Over that adjustment period there are some losses because the players are a little out of sorts. Maybe that flyby puts you on the pines and you don't get on the PP where you certainly would have been previously.. to get the message through; The losses cost us in the standings.
Is that wasting a season? I would argue its not because its an investment to get the team to play the way they need to to be successful going forward.

A winning streak will be fun and exciting and all is good and this preaching for more defensive structure, more details etc will be tossed aside only to come back again when they start not getting the bounces again.

 

[Micklebot]

Andlauer and Staois are both going to be taking the long term approach, I don't see them making any panic move, they'll stick to the plan and build a stable foundation.

That means likely no new GM until the offseason unless they find a guy they love that's currently available, which in turn means DJ isn't likely going to be replaced with an external option mid season.

It's disappointing because had the sale not dragged out, maybe we already have a new GM and coach... Heck, had people been forthcoming about the Dadonov situation from the start, we'd almost certainly have a new GM already.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Andlauer and Staois are both going to be taking the long term approach, I don't see them making any panic move, they'll stick to the plan and build a stable foundation.

That means likely no new GM until the offseason unless they find a guy they love that's currently available, which in turn means DJ isn't likely going to be replaced with an external option mid season.

It's disappointing because had the sale not dragged out, maybe we already have a new GM and coach... Heck, had people been forthcoming about the Dadonov situation from the start, we'd almost certainly have a new GM already.

I agree with you.

That said, I listened to Simmer yesterday, he completely disagrees with this approach or expectation.

So I’ll just keep refreshing when I’m bored

 

[DaveMatthew]

Andlauer and Staois are both going to be taking the long term approach, I don't see them making any panic move, they'll stick to the plan and build a stable foundation.

That means likely no new GM until the offseason unless they find a guy they love that's currently available, which in turn means DJ isn't likely going to be replaced with an external option mid season.

It's disappointing because had the sale not dragged out, maybe we already have a new GM and coach... Heck, had people been forthcoming about the Dadonov situation from the start, we'd almost certainly have a new GM already.

Mike Johnson was on TSN1200 this morning and said he does not think Andlauer is interested in giving up on this season.

While he and Staios came in hoping to take their time, sometimes you're forced into a change (i.e. Pierre Dorion losing the team a 1st rounder).

He speculated that if the team is ~8-10 points out of the wildcard after the Sweden trip, that probably does it for DJ. Right now, we're 5 points out.

We play Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Detroit and Minnesota. The only "easier" game is Calgary. It's going to be tough. We need to go 3-2.

I imagine that he also isn't a huge fan of players taking shots at the fans in the media in defense of DJ while they lose games. He needs to sell tickets and build the brand, not piss the market off. It may get to a point where he needs to send a message.

Hopefully, they win tomorrow, at least. Because a loss under the lights in Toronto... oh boy. It'll be loud.

For years all the fan vitriol was absorbed by Melnyk and Dorion. But they're gone, and now it's starting to go towards the players. That's much more uncomfortable.

 

[Micklebot]

Mike Johnson was on TSN1200 this morning and said he does not think Andlauer is interested in giving up on this season.

While he and Staios came in hoping to take their time, sometimes you're forced into a change (i.e. Pierre Dorion losing the team a 1st rounder).

He speculated that if the team is ~8-10 points out of the wildcard after the Sweden trip, that probably does it for DJ. Right now, we're 5 points out.

We play Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Detroit and Minnesota.

The only "easier" game is Calgary. It's going to be tough. We need to go 3-2.

Sure, DJ might get canned, I just don't see them doing anything other than interim HC Capuano or Interim coach Bell.

As an aside, Troy Mann must be looking at this and thinking he'd have had a real opportunity to be interim coach if not for the scandal...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I just don't see what they have to lose in firing him now and trying something, anything different. Everyone seems to accept DJ will not be the guy to carry the team to success and be there long term, so they're either cutting bait now or in the summer.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Sure, DJ might get canned, I just don't see them doing anything other than interim HC Capuano or Interim coach Bell.

As an aside, Troy Mann must be looking at this and thinking he'd have had a real opportunity to be interim coach if not for the scandal...

Yes, the "scandal".

Seems more and more obvious what happened to Mann at the hands of Dorion the Dictator.

There will be juicy details in the next few months no doubt.