The Reckoning is upon us

[DrEasy]

Yep. This isn't turning on a light switch. This is turning around a massive cruise ship before it hits the iceberg. It's going to take time and smart maneuvering to do it right.

Kind of like that tsunami scene in San Andreas. Lots of obstacles ahead.

I'm happy to be hit by that tsunami if it has Alexandra Daddario in it!

I think @Big Muddy said it best. It's really hard to evaluate this roster: how much is the lack of performance due to injury, how much is it the coaching, the system, etc.?

What has disturbed me the most about this team is how they get manhandled and outmuscled along the boards, and how our players seem to take the worse of each hit. Physical teams seem to be the ones we have the most issues against. And yet this is a team that was built/drafted to be big, physical, (Aragorn's philosophy, and why I presume he has been supportive of the outgoing regime), and also fast, hard working. A team that is supposed to play with reckless abandon, puts the fear of god into the opponent, a team of 12 Mike Fishers or Chris Neils chasing the puck and going out of their way to dish out hits, systems be damned!

And there's in principle nothing wrong with it (let's just set analytics aside for now; but I know it's a big caveat) but my theory is that our players are not physically ready to play this kind of style: some of them are too young (plenty old enough to play fast and skilled if they have skill, but lacking the strength to bully other teams), some of them had injuries they are still recovering from (if they ever fully do so). At best you see a period or two of Joseph, Brady or Parker Kelly playing like that, but they can't sustain it.

We may still be a year or two away from the point where Tkachuk, Sanderson, Norris, Batherson, Pinto, Greig, Ostapchuk, Kleven, Boucher can dominate the other team physically (or at least not be physically dominated by the other team: looking at you, Jimmy!). And that's assuming Norris, Pinto, Batherson, Greig and Boucher can ever get there despite the injuries they sustained and that seem to have stalled or set back their progression.

Then again I might be totally off base.

 

[Ice-Tray]

If the assistant gm from tampa is who the target is for gm, we have to wait until the off season to get him. He already interviewed for the gm job with MA in montreal. Maybe they already know who he would have hired as coach...so they hire that person as interim coach and when..Darch! (I forgot his name) gets hired, they just remove the interim tag and it all looks good.


I have plenty of tinfoil if anybody else would like a hat.

I somewhat agree here. I think they know who they want, I think they had to fire PD early, and I think they want the GM to pick the coach.

I have never though that Andlauer nor Staios view this season in the same way as Sens fans as they have never expressed any expectations of playoffs.

There has been an immediate divergence of fan expectations and ownership and POHO expectations for this team.

Fans want it now, and the new guys have been moving slowly and deliberately to build
The thing they want to build.

I would expect more of the same until things fall in to place top down before I would expect a fast move to save the season.

Dunno, maybe they blink first but I don’t think everyone is on the same page here at the moment.

I'm happy to be hit by that tsunami if it has Alexandra Daddario in it!

I think @Big Muddy said it best. It's really hard to evaluate this roster: how much is the lack of performance due to injury, how much is it the coaching, the system, etc.?

What has disturbed me the most about this team is how they get manhandled and outmuscled along the boards, and how our players seem to take the worse of each hit. Physical teams seem to be the ones we have the most issues against. And yet this is a team that was built/drafted to be big, physical, (Aragorn's philosophy, and why I presume he has been supportive of the outgoing regime), and also fast, hard working. A team that is supposed to play with reckless abandon, puts the fear of god into the opponent, a team of 12 Mike Fishers or Chris Neils chasing the puck and going out of their way to dish out hits, systems be damned!

And there's in principle nothing wrong with it (let's just set analytics aside for now; but I know it's a big caveat) but my theory is that our players are not physically ready to play this kind of style: some of them are too young (plenty old enough to play fast and skilled if they have skill, but lacking the strength to bully other teams), some of them had injuries they are still recovering from (if they ever fully do so). At best you see a period or two of Joseph, Brady or Parker Kelly playing like that, but they can't sustain it.

We may still be a year or two away from the point where Tkachuk, Sanderson, Norris, Batherson, Pinto, Greig, Ostapchuk, Kleven, Boucher can dominate the other team physically (or at least not be physically dominated by the other team: looking at you, Jimmy!). And that's assuming Norris, Pinto, Batherson, Greig and Boucher can ever get there despite the injuries they sustained and that seem to have stalled or set back their progression.

Then again I might be totally off base.

I like this post but have to say that I’m losing any sort of hope that Bath will use his physicality. He’s a stick and dipsy doodle guy right now. Sanderson, Pinto, and Norris don’t seem to physically engage much either.

We don’t know until a new coach runs a new system and new expectations though.

 

[The Waffler]

The f***ing cup is ours, f*** sakes

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I'm happy to be hit by that tsunami if it has Alexandra Daddario in it!

I think @Big Muddy said it best. It's really hard to evaluate this roster: how much is the lack of performance due to injury, how much is it the coaching, the system, etc.?

What has disturbed me the most about this team is how they get manhandled and outmuscled along the boards, and how our players seem to take the worse of each hit. Physical teams seem to be the ones we have the most issues against. And yet this is a team that was built/drafted to be big, physical, (Aragorn's philosophy, and why I presume he has been supportive of the outgoing regime), and also fast, hard working. A team that is supposed to play with reckless abandon, puts the fear of god into the opponent, a team of 12 Mike Fishers or Chris Neils chasing the puck and going out of their way to dish out hits, systems be damned!

And there's in principle nothing wrong with it (let's just set analytics aside for now; but I know it's a big caveat) but my theory is that our players are not physically ready to play this kind of style: some of them are too young (plenty old enough to play fast and skilled if they have skill, but lacking the strength to bully other teams), some of them had injuries they are still recovering from (if they ever fully do so). At best you see a period or two of Joseph, Brady or Parker Kelly playing like that, but they can't sustain it.

We may still be a year or two away from the point where Tkachuk, Sanderson, Norris, Batherson, Pinto, Greig, Ostapchuk, Kleven, Boucher can dominate the other team physically (or at least not be physically dominated by the other team: looking at you, Jimmy!). And that's assuming Norris, Pinto, Batherson, Greig and Boucher can ever get there despite the injuries they sustained and that seem to have stalled or set back their progression.

Then again I might be totally off base.

We've become pretty soft as a team as we've gotten more skill in the line-up.

We were physical because we had little skill and were rebuilding but now that the core has been assembled, our only core player who truly is physical is Tkachuk.

I still like the core but it has some serious shortcomings on the physicality front. Add the defensive gongshow and we are far too easy to play against right now. If you aren't very physical you have to be able to play a good position game but we do neither.

Dorion really left us with a total mess.

 

[Adrianopolous]

Why was DJ not fired at 9am?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Why was DJ not fired at 9am?

Because Staios just started in the GM role and isn't sure who he'd like to replace DJ.

We need to change the entire coaching staff, it isn't as easy as just firing the head coach.

 

[Tuna99]

Why was DJ not fired at 9am?

Shits to crazy right now. Owner is upset, Brady is upset, fans are upset - lots of thick rimmed glasses images popping up around this team which is never good.

Seems overly emotional right now to fire D.J. - things need to settle down a bit.

Sens could pull a Florida and just leave D.J. in Sweden to find his own flight home.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

DJ won't be fired because the new GM will probably want to have some input on who the new coach is going to be.

They likely ride this season out with DJ, get a new GM this summer, who interviews for a coaches he'd like long term.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Because Staios just started in the GM role and isn't sure who he'd like to replace DJ.

We need to change the entire coaching staff, it isn't as easy as just firing the head coach.

Does this feel "best in class" to you? Cause it sure doesn't for me. They knew the Dadonov investigation would be concluding. They knew there was a possibility of significant punishment. They knew that Dorion was not the long-term person for the GM regardless of that situation.

Within a week of hiring Staios, there should have been a list of candidates to replace the GM. Within a week of that, they should have narrowed down the list to 3-5 serious candidates. It's not like they need to go through hundreds and hundreds of names for the GM position and it shouldn't take that long to interview 3 serious candidates for the job.

Here we are, the eventuality we all saw coming from a mile away is playing out. And instead of giving the AGM the interim role so the POHO could focus on the biggest priority, he's learning on the fly in a role he has 0 experience in at the NHL level. Meanwhile, the coaching staff should have been relieved of their duties 3-4 games ago and we're, arguably, further away from a resolution to that mess than we were 3-4 games ago.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Does this feel "best in class" to you? Cause it sure doesn't for me. They knew the Dadonov investigation would be concluding. They knew there was a possibility of significant punishment. They knew that Dorion was not the long-term person for the GM regardless of that situation.

Within a week of hiring Staios, there should have been a list of candidates to replace the GM. Within a week of that, they should have narrowed down the list to 3-5 serious candidates. It's not like they need to go through hundreds and hundreds of names for the GM position and it shouldn't take that long to interview 3 serious candidates for the job.

Here we are, the eventuality we all saw coming from a mile away is playing out. And instead of giving the AGM the interim role so the POHO could focus on the biggest priority, he's learning on the fly in a role he has 0 experience in at the NHL level. Meanwhile, the coaching staff should have been relieved of their duties 3-4 games ago and we're, arguably, further away from a resolution to that mess than we were 3-4 games ago.

Negative

 

[Beech]

Does this feel "best in class" to you? Cause it sure doesn't for me. They knew the Dadonov investigation would be concluding. They knew there was a possibility of significant punishment. They knew that Dorion was not the long-term person for the GM regardless of that situation.

Within a week of hiring Staios, there should have been a list of candidates to replace the GM. Within a week of that, they should have narrowed down the list to 3-5 serious candidates. It's not like they need to go through hundreds and hundreds of names for the GM position and it shouldn't take that long to interview 3 serious candidates for the job.

Here we are, the eventuality we all saw coming from a mile away is playing out. And instead of giving the AGM the interim role so the POHO could focus on the biggest priority, he's learning on the fly in a role he has 0 experience in at the NHL level. Meanwhile, the coaching staff should have been relieved of their duties 3-4 games ago and we're, arguably, further away from a resolution to that mess than we were 3-4 games ago.

the real f*** up was the league. The sale should have been in April. Turn over in June. Andlauer would have had 3 months.

a new GM in August,, a new coach in late August.. training camp under a new regime.

turnover of the team was in late September, after the pre-season started. You were finished by then.

 

[BondraTime]

Andlauer and Staios know who they want.

Unfortunately, the NHL dragged the sale on so that the guys they want are not available until the offseason.

Guys like Darche, Horcoff, and even Spezza are likely the type of guys they'd be looking to bring into the fold with management. That is the type of guys they SHOULD be looking at, and unfortunately, none would be available until the offseason.

If the sale was made in April, we would have a full new management and coaching staff in, and we would have a drastically different roster as well. The sale process dragging on pushed the Sens back at the bare minimum one season.

The only guy who "may" be available now, and even that may be stretched, is Chiarelli. There would be a gasket blown if that were to happen.

The Sens need to wait until the offseason. It's shit, because this is essentially a wasted season, but that's what happens when you need to wait until Oct for getting guys in place after purchasing the team.

 

[Crosside]

Andlauer and Staios know who they want.

Unfortunately, the NHL dragged the sale on so that the guys they want are not available until the offseason.

Guys like Darche, Horcoff, and even Spezza are likely the type of guys they'd be looking to bring into the fold with management. That is the type of guys they SHOULD be looking at, and unfortunately, none would be available until the offseason.

If the sale was made in April, we would have a full new management and coaching staff in, and we would have a drastically different roster as well. The sale process dragging on pushed the Sens back at the bare minimum one season.

The only guy who "may" be available now, and even that may be stretched, is Chiarelli. There would be a gasket blown if that were to happen.

The Sens need to wait until the offseason. It's shit, because this is essentially a wasted season, but that's what happens when you need to wait until Oct for getting guys in place after purchasing the team.

Not sure about that. Darche have make interview last year for different team during the season

 

[BondraTime]

Not sure about that. Darche have make interview last year for different team during the season

He interviewed with the Hawks and Ducks near the end of the 2022 season when he was yet to be announced as Asst. GM for the Lightning. Even then, he wouldn't have joined until the season was over.

Since being promoted to Asst. GM, the likelihood of him leaving to another team during the season is almost non-existent.

 

[Loach]

Does this feel "best in class" to you? Cause it sure doesn't for me. They knew the Dadonov investigation would be concluding. They knew there was a possibility of significant punishment. They knew that Dorion was not the long-term person for the GM regardless of that situation.

Within a week of hiring Staios, there should have been a list of candidates to replace the GM. Within a week of that, they should have narrowed down the list to 3-5 serious candidates. It's not like they need to go through hundreds and hundreds of names for the GM position and it shouldn't take that long to interview 3 serious candidates for the job.

Here we are, the eventuality we all saw coming from a mile away is playing out. And instead of giving the AGM the interim role so the POHO could focus on the biggest priority, he's learning on the fly in a role he has 0 experience in at the NHL level. Meanwhile, the coaching staff should have been relieved of their duties 3-4 games ago and we're, arguably, further away from a resolution to that mess than we were 3-4 games ago.

Clown shoes

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Does this feel "best in class" to you?

I'm not sure why this matters.

Ownership moved in and suddenly had to deal with some rather serious drama out of nowhere.

I'd rather they take their time instead of rushing into anything. The new GM and new coaching staff will need multiyear deals, it is very important that everybody involved in the selection process be on the same page.

Throwing slogans around is silly. Best in class doesn't mean mistakes won't happen or that problems get fixed in a matter of days.

 

[Oduyanow]

Shits to crazy right now. Owner is upset, Brady is upset, fans are upset - lots of thick rimmed glasses images popping up around this team which is never good.

Seems overly emotional right now to fire D.J. - things need to settle down a bit.

Sens could pull a Florida and just leave D.J. in Sweden to find his own flight home.

And Staios can have Hamonic tell him.

 

[Oduyanow]

I'm not sure why this matters.

Ownership moved in and suddenly had to deal with some rather serious drama out of nowhere.

I'd rather they take their time instead of rushing into anything. The new GM and new coaching staff will need multiyear deals, it is very important that everybody involved in the selection process be on the same page.

Throwing slogans around is silly. Best in class doesn't mean mistakes won't happen or that problems get fixed in a matter of days.

Yeah the Dadonov debacle coming out of left field really threw a wrench into the works (plus of course the NHL taking forever to approve the sale).

Before that I remember people saying how lucky we were that Dorion had the core pieces in place and the new owners would be able to take their time evaluating the whole operation including management, with perhaps only a few on-ice minor changes around the edges to non-core players in the interim. Good times.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Yeah the Dadonov debacle coming out of left field really threw a wrench into the works (plus of course the NHL taking forever to approve the sale).

To be fair to the NHL, I thought the main hold up was the Board/Melnyks/their lawyers?

 

[HSF]

the NHL let Andlauer know about the penalty for Dadanov only a few weeks ago.

'Best in class' is a process that will take time. Right now they are cutting out the disease

If they really want Darche i doubt Tampa lets him go till the summer

 

[Beech]

the NHL let Andlauer know about the penalty for Dadanov only a few weeks ago.

'Best in class' is a process that will take time. Right now they are cutting out the disease

If they really want Darche i doubt Tampa lets him go till the summer

there has always been unwritten rules that you don't stop upward moves.
you can stop sideways moves, but not upwards.

any AGM is available (assuming they want him and he agrees).

 

[BondraTime]

there has always been unwritten rules that you don't stop upward moves.
you can stop sideways moves, but not upwards.

any AGM is available (assuming they want him and he agrees).

They still have to wait until the season is over, just like when Chiarelli left the Sens for the Bruins. The interviews were happening in season, they still had to wait until the offseason.

He was hired by the Bruins in May and had to finish out his time as Sens GM until July

 

[Beech]

They still have to wait until the season is over, just like when Chiarelli left the Sens for the Bruins.

He was hired by the Bruins in May and had to finish out his time as Sens GM until July

this is different.

they need a guy now.. this is not March and you let Dorion go.. 2 months left, no moves are made, you can wait until season's end.

The Sens have a whole season's worth of business to do.. a season to possibly salvage.. a possible new coach to hire.

I doubt that any team would object..

Think if a team objected.. The Sens then hire a different guy... Do you really want to deny a guy at a GMs job???? what if another opportunity does not materialize???

I would see a lawsuit.. a $5 M a year GM for 5 years.. I would ask for 40-50 M for compensation and lawyer fees, lost opportunity, investment earning, etc.

 

[BondraTime]

this is different.

they need a guy now.. this is not March and you let Dorion go.. 2 months left, no moves are made, you can wait until season's end.

The Sens have a whole season's worth of business to do.. a season to possibly salvage.. a possible new coach to hire.

I doubt that any team would object..

Think if a team objected.. The Sens then hire a different guy... Do you really want to deny a guy at a GMs job???? what if another opportunity does not materialize???

I would see a lawsuit.. a $5 M a year GM for 5 years.. I would ask for 40-50 M for compensation and lawyer fees, lost opportunity, investment earning, etc.

Of course teams would object, the Ast. Gm has been in house and with them this season. They aren't going to let him go and assume the role of GM with another team. Both Darche and Horcoff are very familiar with our ownership and management. They will undoubtedly understand that things have to wait until this season is complete.

In the offseason? Absolutely, all of the above teams would allow their Asst. GM's to move to a GM role with another team.

That's on the Sens, not on other teams to allow one of their highest valued members to go in-season.

I mean Sens literally objected and wouldn't allow Capuano to interview for a head coach role last year.

There's a reason we are hearing the the Sens will have to wait until the offseaosn for guys like Horcoff and Darche, the lightning and Wings aren't going to allow them to go to a rival in season.

There are lots of guys who they can make interim GM. They will go after their guys this May when the season is done.

 

[Oduyanow]

To be fair to the NHL, I thought the main hold up was the Board/Melnyks/their lawyers?

Good point, very hard to apportion blame accurately without knowing the specifics (which we will never know of course).