The Reckoning is upon us

[Do Make Say Think]

I agree DJ could stand to be more firm with players who are underperforming but I'm not sure there is anyone I think he should have benched that he did not this season.

I could buy that he should sit Batherson but I don't think he should have benched any of our highest paid players. Maybe Chabot but the (misguided) goal was to get him used to playing the right side so benching him wouldn't have made sense.

Benching your best players is a bit of a luxury: either the team is great and can handle it (Tampa) or the team is garbage and a message is being sent (Calgary). Not sure we fit in either, then you factor all the injuries, it isn't easy for a coach fighting for his career to bench a star player.

 

[Beech]

I thought about it and it's a bad argument. That's life. He signed a contract to an NHL team, he knows how it works. If Darche can't get a job after Tbay cleans house, thems the brakes.

No team, full stop, is letting their AGM go mid season. Don't care if it hurts feelings, if Darche is willing to go mid year and abandon his team mid stream, and will throw a hissy fit if they don't let him go, then I don't know if I want him here anyways.

Mick,

If Darche or any other AGM is not hired by the team during this season. It will be because the Sens did not want him. If teh Sens do not hire a new guy in-season, it will be because they do not want to.

When Cap. was denied the chance to interview.. I call that BS.. He went public.. which embarrassed the team and Dorion and Melnyk.. His ass would have been out!

He went public after it was okay with the team.. He went public to PUT HIS NAME OUT THERE.. to tell people, look I am here.. I was offered an interview but it was denied...So any other team... come and get me. I am in demand.

Now, he may have been offered and interview.. But my feeing is: it was, sure Cap.. come in. But know, you are a B group guy.. If you want go through it and use it as "self promotion". Go ahead.

then I believe he went to Dorion.... Dorion was okay with taking a hit to get Caps name out there. In fact Dorion did not take the hit, the feeling was; Melnyk, took the hit. And it wouldn't surprise me, it was okay with him.


Teams will never deny such a chance....

An AGM makes 300-350 K (from Brian Burke's mouth).. A GM can be 2-5 M.. that is 10-15X... 3 years as a GM. Will get amount to 30-50 as an AGM... Plus the prestige, plus the perks, plus the privileges.

NO AGM would ever agree to a contract without now adding an "out at any time" clause. Unless you are an older, "I am not going anywhere" AGM.

And at 2-5 M, average Canadian team GM stay is 7 years... 14 - 35 M... this does not include being fired with a year or two still on your contract. It could be 2-5 M for 8-9 years.. 16-45 M.

You would sue your mother.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Martin: Fans have the right to express their opinion, can't let it impact you as a coach/team

AJ Jakubec is joined by former Ottawa Senators head coach Jacques Martin for his weekly Jacques Talk segment, this week they chat about the pressure on DJ Smith, the play of the Sens and they look at some of the coaches on the hot seat around the NHL.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Micklebot]

Mick,

If Darche or any other AGM is not hired by the team during this season. It will be because the Sens did not want him. If teh Sens do not hire a new guy in-season, it will be because they do not want to.

When Cap. was denied the chance to interview.. I call that BS.. He went public.. which embarrassed the team and Dorion and Melnyk.. His ass would have been out!

He went public after it was okay with the team.. He went public to PUT HIS NAME OUT THERE.. to tell people, look I am here.. I was offered an interview but it was denied...So any other team... come and get me. I am in demand.

Now, he may have been offered and interview.. But my feeing is: it was, sure Cap.. come in. But know, you are a B group guy.. If you want go through it and use it as "self promotion". Go ahead.

then I believe he went to Dorion.... Dorion was okay with taking a hit to get Caps name out there. In fact Dorion did not take the hit, the feeling was; Melnyk, took the hit. And it wouldn't surprise me, it was okay with him.


Teams will never deny such a chance....

An AGM makes 300-350 K (from Brian Burke's mouth).. A GM can be 2-5 M.. that is 10-15X... 3 years as a GM. Will get amount to 30-50 as an AGM... Plus the prestige, plus the perks, plus the privileges.

NO AGM would ever agree to a contract without now adding an "out at any time" clause. Unless you are an older, "I am not going anywhere" AGM.

And at 2-5 M, average Canadian team GM stay is 7 years... 14 - 35 M... this does not include being fired with a year or two still on your contract. It could be 2-5 M for 8-9 years.. 16-45 M.

You would sue your mother.

Still not buying it, and neither is any lawyer worth his salt going to represent such a frivolous case, it's a waste of time,

No team is letting their guy walk to the competition mid season, and no team is signing an AGM that tries to include an out clause in their contract allowing them to.

 

[BondraTime]

Still not buying it, and neither is any lawyer worth his salt going to represent such a frivolous case, it's a waste of time,

No team is letting their guy walk to the competition mid season, and no team is signing an AGM that tries to include an out clause in their contract allowing them to.

You'd think the years of precedence, and all the talking heads saying the same thing would be enough

And a lawsuit because a team is honoring their contract until the offseason is hilarious

 

[Beech]

Still not buying it, and neither is any lawyer worth his salt going to represent such a frivolous case, it's a waste of time,

No team is letting their guy walk to the competition mid season, and no team is signing an AGM that tries to include an out clause in their contract allowing them to.

People sue when someone kills their dog or cat. They sue for hardship. As in emotional.

An Italian pro cyclist, used an air pistol to shoot a cat. He was charged by the police, fired by his team and sued by the owner of the cat. Effectively he was buried!!! for killing a cat.

Now in the USA (or even up here).. Being denied a chance at 16-45 M.. At prestige, privilege's. A luxury life for your family.. wealth to be passed down for generations. Heck, Darche would not have to sue, his wife and kids would!!!!

And for what, to protect an AGM job. On a team, that at best will be a 3rd place team. One that bowed out last year in Round 1.. and is most likely heading towards a similar faith.

1) Vinik is not that big of a prick
2) lawsuit(s)
3) Bad reputation
4) Lose a friend.. Imagine Darche, a GM elsewhere. And you need a favour, you need to bury a mistake, you need to free up X amount of dollars of CAP!

If Darche is a true candidate? If he is an A list guy.. Vinik lets him interview.. If the job is his. Vinik sits with Andlauer and spells out terms (no raiding staff, no secrets). Vinik sits with Darche (sign NDA, honorable conduct, no raiding staff, no secrets). Vinik turn to Brisebois: you have a friend in Ottawa...go hire his replacement.

 

[Micklebot]

People sue when someone kills their dog or cat. They sue for hardship. As in emotional.

An Italian pro cyclist, used an air pistol to shoot a cat. He was charged by the police, fired by his team and sued by the owner of the cat. Effectively he was buried!!! for killing a cat.

Now in the USA (or even up here).. Being denied a chance at 16-45 M.. At prestige, privilege's. A luxury life for your family.. wealth to be passed down for generations. Heck, Darche would not have to sue, his wife and kids would!!!!

And for what, to protect an AGM job. On a team, that at best will be a 3rd place team. One that bowed out last year in Round 1.. and is most likely heading towards a similar faith.

1) Vinik is not that big of a prick
2) lawsuit(s)
3) Bad reputation
4) Lose a friend.. Imagine Darche, a GM elsewhere. And you need a favour, you need to bury a mistake, you need to free up X amount of dollars of CAP!

If Darche is a true candidate? If he is an A list guy.. Vinik lets him interview.. If the job is his. Vinik sits with Andlauer and spells out terms (no raiding staff, no secrets). Vinik sits with Darche (sign NDA, honorable conduct, no raiding staff, no secrets). Vinik turn to Brisebois: you have a friend in Ottawa...go hire his replacement.

Ok, so anybody can sue, doesn't mean it was ever going to win, or that it was a good idea. The potential of frivoulous lawsuits isn't the winning argument you seem to think it is.

Teams don't want to mid season release a guy with intimate knowledge of their plans, especially not to a competitor. Heck, teams even have to ask permission to interview guys that were fired but still under contract.

There's no bad reputation associated with Tbay denying Darche an interview mid season, everybody but you seems to understand that. On the flip side, teams would likely stay away from a guy that tries to sue his employer for being asked to honour their contract at least until the end of the season

It's a business, Darche knew going into his current contract that it meant not applying for other jobs mid season while still under contract.

 

[BondraTime]

Of course someone was buried and sued for shooting a cat

What the f*** do you expect if you shoot and kill somebody's pet

What does that, in any way, have to do with suing your employer for honoring the contract you signed

 

[Micklebot]

Of course someone was buried and sued for shooting a cat

What the f*** do you expect if you shoot and kill somebody's pet

What does that, in any way, have to do with suing your employer for honoring the contract you signed

Lol, I missed that part, that's insane that he thought that was relevant...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Joeffice]

The team has looked like absolute dog since he's been out

Nah, it has been dog with him for years. Moving away from Chabot to competent defenseman has them actually hovering at 500.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Not that people didn't believe or disagreed with me but....

Called it

 

[BankStreetParade]

Not that people didn't believe or disagreed with me but....

Called it

By the time you made this thread, it had already been a week too late to fire DJ. There was hope for change that early in the season but waiting for so long to do something sunk the entire season and I'll never be convinced otherwise.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Not that people didn't believe or disagreed with me but....

Called it

 

[Do Make Say Think]

By the time you made this thread, it had already been a week too late to fire DJ. There was hope for change that early in the season but waiting for so long to do something sunk the entire season and I'll never be convinced otherwise.

Very early still but Martin seems to be having the same problems DJ did.

We shall see if things turn around but so far I'd say Martin shows that coaching, while lackluster, was not the core issue.

 

[Beech]

Not that people didn't believe or disagreed with me but....

Called it

most believed, those that fought you have a hard job.

165 M is needed by the Sens.. 75 M comes from TV and media
that leaves 90 M from asses in seats.. at $100 a fan, that is 900,000 K fans.. at 45 dates.. That is 20,000 per game.. the arena is 19,000

so, 2-6 playoff dates hopefully is break even.

but when you need 19,000 butts in seats.. you cannot have dissent.. you cannot have questioning.. you need religion like following..... NO and I mean; f***ING NO.. Melnyk out.

So when someone posts a dissenting post, or starts a dissenting thread.. It must be stopped, countered, IMMIDIATLY..... kill it before it gets traction.

19,000 asses, dropping $100 .... That is insane.... There is ZERO room for hesitancy, for questioning.

at 19,000 and no playoffs, we are talking 5-10 M in losses.. at 17,000, we are adding 9 M and making the total tab 14-19 M in losses.

By 16,000, net loses are between 19 and 25 Million.... The Euge found that out.

You are lucky, you caught the MODS feeling good or your thread would have been GONE.

someone at 395 Ninth Ave must have fallen asleep.

 

[Relapsing]

So when someone posts a dissenting post, or starts a dissenting thread.. It must be stopped, countered, IMMIDIATLY..... kill it before it gets traction.

There's no room for dissenting opinions in a discussion forum people! Line up or get out! Lol

 

[Beech]

There's no room for dissenting opinions in a discussion forum people! Line up or get out! Lol

can you imagine the lunacy of the professional sports world.

Your expenditures are fixed.. Locked by salaries and league rules on operating standards.

So, you have no choice but to generate revenue to at least come close to your expenditures.

and that revenue is dependent on 18 year old's, who may or may not develop over the next 2-4 years. And on 31 other teams who may outdo your 18 year old's by theirs.

all the while, your revenue is in a service that is deemed a luxury and is highly influenced by the economy, the market size and their belief in your 18 year old's.

I would work for free for the Sens in their Sales and Marketing DEPARTMENT, JUST TO SEE THE CHAOS. To see 19,000 fans after a 3 point night from Brady and 3 wins in a row, and then 16,000 after a -3 night from him and 3 loses in a row. Wahh.... what the Manager must be like in one case versus the other.

I have visions of Cyril Leeder enacting a scene from The Untouchables. When he goes around with a baseball in his hand and bludgeons one of his failed underlings.

do a search on here, see who owns this site

 

[Cosmix]

Very early still but Martin seems to be having the same problems DJ did.

We shall see if things turn around but so far I'd say Martin shows that coaching, while lackluster, was not the core issue.

That was a quick conclusion.

Give Martin some time to teach the players how to play the game the Martin way.

DJ had years to get the job done and failed. DJ should have been fired after his first contract expired. Dorion the same.

 

[Relapsing]

can you imagine the lunacy of the professional sports world.

Your expenditures are fixed.. Locked by salaries and league rules on operating standards.

So, you have no choice but to generate revenue to at least come close to your expenditures.

and that revenue is dependent on 18 year old's, who may or may not develop over the next 2-4 years. And on 31 other teams who may outdo your 18 year old's by theirs.

all the while, your revenue is in a service that is deemed a luxury and is highly influenced by the economy, the market size and their belief in your 18 year old's.

I would work for free for the Sens in their Sales and Marketing DEPARTMENT, JUST TO SEE THE CHAOS. To see 19,000 fans after a 3 point night from Brady and 3 wins in a row, and then 16,000 after a -3 night from him and 3 loses in a row. Wahh.... what the Manager must be like in one case versus the other.

I have visions of Cyril Leeder enacting a scene from The Untouchables. When he goes around with a baseball in his hand and bludgeons one of his failed underlings.

do a search on here, see who owns this site

can you imagine the lunacy of the professional sports world.

Your expenditures are fixed.. Locked by salaries and league rules on operating standards.

So, you have no choice but to generate revenue to at least come close to your expenditures.

and that revenue is dependent on 18 year old's, who may or may not develop over the next 2-4 years. And on 31 other teams who may outdo your 18 year old's by theirs.

all the while, your revenue is in a service that is deemed a luxury and is highly influenced by the economy, the market size and their belief in your 18 year old's.

I would work for free for the Sens in their Sales and Marketing DEPARTMENT, JUST TO SEE THE CHAOS. To see 19,000 fans after a 3 point night from Brady and 3 wins in a row, and then 16,000 after a -3 night from him and 3 loses in a row. Wahh.... what the Manager must be like in one case versus the other.

I have visions of Cyril Leeder enacting a scene from The Untouchables. When he goes around with a baseball in his hand and bludgeons one of his failed underlings.

do a search on here, see who owns this site

That was a lot of reply for a bit of a joke!

I haven't worked in a marketing/comms dept, but worked closely with one for the last 5 years... It's always chaos. But with an understanding that it plays out over time. So I doubt anyone in the org is really sweating swings in per game attendance numbers. The goal would be to raise average attendance with the understanding that some games (opponent, team performance, etc...) won't get as many people in seats.

Anyways all that is to say it's important for the team to market to key demographics, notably younger kids and 30+ who have disposable income. Or by making the next arena more accessible for the majority of the city. But I digress...

If Leeder is going around calling for dept or managers heads, then he is not the right man for the job, lol. Marketing is high energy but not ideally not frantic and reactionary.

 

[Beech]

That was a lot of reply for a bit of a joke!

I haven't worked in a marketing/comms dept, but worked closely with one for the last 5 years... It's always chaos. But with an understanding that it plays out over time. So I doubt anyone in the org is really sweating swings in per game attendance numbers. The goal would be to raise average attendance with the understanding that some games (opponent, team performance, etc...) won't get as many people in seats.

Anyways all that is to say it's important for the team to market to key demographics, notably younger kids and 30+ who have disposable income. Or by making the next arena more accessible for the majority of the city. But I digress...

If Leeder is going around calling for dept or managers heads, then he is not the right man for the job, lol. Marketing is high energy but not ideally not frantic and reactionary.

This industry is unique.. 19,000 is max. It cannot be increased. You cannot sell an extra item.. and so, you are operating at peak all the time.. All things fall from peak. Not oscillate around it. And so, when your business needs 19,000K to only lose 5-10 million. Then each game that is below that, adds to loses, with no means of compensating.

As a result, you must be at 100% capacity at all times. Games below that is; money lost. With no real means to recoup.

14 games a month, roughly 7 are home dates.. if 2-3 games are with angry fans and 16 K.. that is 600-900 K lost and no means to get it back. Repeat that 6 times and your owner has gone from 5-10 M lost to 12-17 M. And this assumes the other 4-5 dates are at 19,000 fans. At less and 12-17 will grow.

Eugene was losing 25 M a year, the last few years.

Andlauer starts seeing his monthly financial summary from Leeder.. The bat may be aimed at Leeder's head if the (-) sign is next to too large a number.

Andlauer had the Montreal Canadians. A cash cow. In a city and province that is hockey mad. In an arena that generated good coin from other revenue sources. Ottawa is not that. Nor are another 25 or so teams. Andlauer may be way less okay with things.

 

[Xspyrit]

Not that people didn't believe or disagreed with me but....

Called it

I have been calling for DJ and Dorion heads since the 8th game of the 2020-21 season. Vancouver destroyed us 16-3 in 3 straight games. Several of their best players were pretty young too

My beer league was more structured than DJ's mess and it was clear Dorion had no idea what he was doing. He spent 42 AAV in an insulting way to NHL hockey. The "veteran support" to surround the very young core was dreadful and it severely hurt their development. I got a lot of resistance back then for saying that, took a lot of heat

Very early still but Martin seems to be having the same problems DJ did.

We shall see if things turn around but so far I'd say Martin shows that coaching, while lackluster, was not the core issue.

No coach was going to fix several years of mess in a few weeks