The Rebuild Started...

[RandV]

Greens not going to experiment with rookies..?...Completely false..Goldoblin,Gaudette and others all got fair playing time..Boeser was a Calder runner-up..The coach really held him back didnt he?

I'm on the fence for that one. Yes some kids got into the lineup but there were a lot of injuries to facilitate that, and no credit needs to be given for playing a rookie when he's your best player.

To Green's credit, unlike Willie he properly utilized Sutter as a pure shut down C without any prompting or needing to be forced to. So when Benning talks about getting Beagle to open up Sutter for offensive opportunities, the #2C slot, I think there's still a good chance Green will use them as checking A and checking B, reducing Sutter's overall ice time sharing the defensive load with Beagle.

Going against Green, he spent much of his career as a bottom six player himself. While he wasn't really given much choice in the matter he found success in Utica with a subpar roster by getting the most out of grinders. There was also that peculiar time going into the playoffs where his roster got bolstered by some talented youngsters... and unlike our opponents he simply didn't use them. I know the arguments why, but when you have a kid like Hutton who leaves college and next season is doing well in the NHL, chances are he was better than the guys you were playing over him in the AHL.

So overall I feel like there's a good chance he sticks to his roots and favours the vets & defensive players to grind out wins - or at the NHL level narrow defeats, with the only chance for the riskier kids to get in being if there's enough injuries. First replacements will be guys like Gaunce or Archibald.

 

[Yossarian54]

2014 IMO. Trading away arguably your 3rd best player indicates you ain't going anywhere. I congratulate Ryan Kesler on having the foresight to realise the team wasn't going anywhere before the rest of the group apparently did.

The fact that the rebuild has been badly managed and kicked back and forth in terms of progress doesn't make it any less a rebuild. It's just a shit one that's taking years longer than it needs/needed to.

 

[Jay Cee]

I find it kind of a strange topic of debate, when the rebuild started.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I'm on the fence for that one. Yes some kids got into the lineup but there were a lot of injuries to facilitate that, and no credit needs to be given for playing a rookie when he's your best player.

To Green's credit, unlike Willie he properly utilized Sutter as a pure shut down C without any prompting or needing to be forced to. So when Benning talks about getting Beagle to open up Sutter for offensive opportunities, the #2C slot, I think there's still a good chance Green will use them as checking A and checking B, reducing Sutter's overall ice time sharing the defensive load with Beagle.

Going against Green, he spent much of his career as a bottom six player himself. While he wasn't really given much choice in the matter he found success in Utica with a subpar roster by getting the most out of grinders. There was also that peculiar time going into the playoffs where his roster got bolstered by some talented youngsters... and unlike our opponents he simply didn't use them. I know the arguments why, but when you have a kid like Hutton who leaves college and next season is doing well in the NHL, chances are he was better than the guys you were playing over him in the AHL.

So overall I feel like there's a good chance he sticks to his roots and favours the vets & defensive players to grind out wins - or at the NHL level narrow defeats, with the only chance for the riskier kids to get in being if there's enough injuries. First replacements will be guys like Gaunce or Archibald.

I thought that Green gave all the young guys a good opportunity last year..Goldoblin got to play with the Sedins and throughout the lineup..and this was even 'after' he demonstrated that he was not ready after camp.

Benning has said repeatedly that he will make roster spots available to the young guys if they deserve it.On the whole,he's followed through with that ..Hutton.Stecher,Boeser,Virtanen...The bigger problem has been not enough young players have demonstrated enough to push a vet out of a spot.

I think that this is going to be an experimental season by Green,and by the end of the year,it will probably look completely different from what we imagined....There's no evidence to suggest that Green has a bias towards vets at the NHL level.......yet

 

[y2kcanucks]

I thought that Green gave all the young guys a good opportunity last year..Goldoblin got to play with the Sedins and throughout the lineup..and this was even 'after' he demonstrated that he was not ready after camp.

Benning has said repeatedly that he will make roster spots available to the young guys if they deserve it.On the whole,he's followed through with that ..Hutton.Stecher,Boeser,Virtanen...The bigger problem has been not enough young players have demonstrated enough to push a vet out of a spot.

I think that this is going to be an experimental season by Green,and by the end of the year,it will probably look completely different from what we imagined....There's no evidence to suggest that Green has a bias towards vets at the NHL level.......yet

Benning and Linden typically say one thing and do the exact opposite. I put absolutely zero stock in anything those two morons say.

Again, this will be a veteran team. There is no rebuild.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Should 2015 and 2016 really be an option? Benning traded away 2nd round picks those years and tried to trade for Lucic and Subban. Also, if there is any debate on when/if a rebuild started it is not a good sign that there actually is a rebuild

 

[PuckMunchkin]

With the FA signings I would like to change my answer from 2018 to it has not yet started.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I thought that Green gave all the young guys a good opportunity last year..Goldoblin got to play with the Sedins and throughout the lineup..and this was even 'after' he demonstrated that he was not ready after camp.

Benning has said repeatedly that he will make roster spots available to the young guys if they deserve it.On the whole,he's followed through with that ..Hutton.Stecher,Boeser,Virtanen...The bigger problem has been not enough young players have demonstrated enough to push a vet out of a spot.

I think that this is going to be an experimental season by Green,and by the end of the year,it will probably look completely different from what we imagined....There's no evidence to suggest that Green has a bias towards vets at the NHL level.......yet

Vancouver Canucks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Just look at that list of contracts for forwards. These are declining assets on a rebuilding team taking away roster spots from assets that could increase their value. You think they will sit Beagle because Kole Lind blew the doors off this training camp?

You think Roussel will make room for Dahlen / Goldobin / Jasek?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Vancouver Canucks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Just look at that list of contracts for forwards. These are declining assets on a rebuilding team taking away roster spots from assets that could increase their value. You think they will sit Beagle because Kole Lind blew the doors off this training camp?

You think Roussel will make room for Dahlen / Goldobin / Jasek?

IF this team were actually rebuilding and going with a youth movement we would probably see something like this for our forward group:

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Dahlen-Pettersson-Eriksson
Goldobin-Ennis*-Virtanen
Leipsic-Sutter-Gaunce
Gagner

*would have signed Tyler Ennis in free agency instead of Jay Beagle

THAT is a youth movement. Not going to be that great of a team, and that third line would need to seriously be sheltered, but it's younger, and it gives our top prospects an opportunity to show they can succeed. It's not "going with just kids" as some would like to have you believe as there is a good blend of veterans and youth.


Instead we're given this:

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Granlund-Sutter-Eriksson
Roussel-Gagner-Pettersson (flip flop Gagner/Pettersson depending on who plays C))
Schaller-Beagle-Virtanen
???

and some people think THIS is a rebuild.

 

[Cancuks]

At least the heavy lifting is complete.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Vancouver Canucks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Just look at that list of contracts for forwards. These are declining assets on a rebuilding team taking away roster spots from assets that could increase their value. You think they will sit Beagle because Kole Lind blew the doors off this training camp?

You think Roussel will make room for Dahlen / Goldobin / Jasek?

Again,lets see the prospect earn a spot first before we pronounce vets hogging spots..There's plenty of room to manoeuvre.. Granlund has one more year,,Sutters LNTC kicks in next season,Baertshi can be moved (if Dahlen wins his spot)..Gagner can be moved as well (might to retain some salary).

 

[megatron]

IF this team were actually rebuilding and going with a youth movement we would probably see something like this for our forward group:

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Dahlen-Pettersson-Eriksson
Goldobin-Ennis*-Virtanen
Leipsic-Sutter-Gaunce
Gagner

*would have signed Tyler Ennis in free agency instead of Jay Beagle

THAT is a youth movement. Not going to be that great of a team, and that third line would need to seriously be sheltered, but it's younger, and it gives our top prospects an opportunity to show they can succeed. It's not "going with just kids" as some would like to have you believe as there is a good blend of veterans and youth.

I agree 100%. When i saw that Ennis signed for 650k my firts thought was "why didnt the Canucks sign him instead of beagle".

One things thats surprising me about the above lineup is how lacklustre it is. The above lineup is not going to win a championship, and I doubt guys like Gaudette and Lind will move the needle that much. Yikes this team is awful.

 

[pgj98m3]

Again,lets see the prospect earn a spot first before we pronounce vets hogging spots..There's plenty of room to manoeuvre.. Granlund has one more year,,Sutters LNTC kicks in next season,Baertshi can be moved (if Dahlen wins his spot)..Gagner can be moved as well (might to retain some salary).

So are you anticipating a new GM who can make trades that are clearly facilitating a rebuild??

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Again,lets see the prospect earn a spot first before we pronounce vets hogging spots..There's plenty of room to manoeuvre.. Granlund has one more year,,Sutters LNTC kicks in next season,Baertshi can be moved (if Dahlen wins his spot)..Gagner can be moved as well (might to retain some salary).

Yeah. Sounds like something this management might do.

Did you even look at the contract situation?

10 forwards that are basically a lock to make the team this year. 11 if you expect Pettersson to make it too.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I agree 100%. When i saw that Ennis signed for 650k my firts thought was "why didnt the Canucks sign him instead of beagle".

One things thats surprising me about the above lineup is how lacklustre it is. The above lineup is not going to win a championship, and I doubt guys like Gaudette and Lind will move the needle that much. Yikes this team is awful.

I didn't include Gaudette or Lind because I think both probably should be in the AHL this year. Gaudette, obviously being one who should be very close to being ready, but from what I saw of him last year he wasn't even close.

There's no reason why Pettersson and Dahlen shouldn't both be penciled in to our roster. Except for the fact that this isn't a rebuild which is why we won't see this.

And I agree with your point. Even throwing some of our top prospects out there this team does not look good. Some will have you believe that the future is bright because we finally have some worthwhile prospects, but almost every team has good prospects. This isn't something new or special.

 

[RandV]

Vancouver Canucks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Just look at that list of contracts for forwards. These are declining assets on a rebuilding team taking away roster spots from assets that could increase their value. You think they will sit Beagle because Kole Lind blew the doors off this training camp?

You think Roussel will make room for Dahlen / Goldobin / Jasek?

What should be emphasized here is that this caliber of prospect, whom we have a lot of, aren't likely going to be able to step into the NHL and immediately score 20 goals/50 points or whatever. But if they're going to get there on our team the only likely way is to give them a
underwhelming 10 goal/30 point season or two. This was the opportunity given to Benning acquisitions like Vey, Virtanen, Baerstchi, and Granlund, primarily because the team had a lot less depth.

Now though with all the vets on the team there isn't room for those same opportunities.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Yeah. Sounds like something this management might do.

Did you even look at the contract situation?

10 forwards that are basically a lock to make the team this year. 11 if you expect Pettersson to make it too.

I am aware of the contract situation, and there are ways around it (post 136)..If a prospect is ready to play,he will play....In the next 2-3 years ,a lot of the current salaries will be expiring...not worried about it at all.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I am aware of the contract situation, and there are ways around it (post 136)..If a prospect is ready to play,he will play....In the next 2-3 years ,a lot of the current salaries will be expiring...not worried about it at all.

Oh you.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I am aware of the contract situation, and there are ways around it (post 136)..If a prospect is ready to play,he will play....In the next 2-3 years ,a lot of the current salaries will be expiring...not worried about it at all.

2-4 years*

And some of these contracts can't be dumped easily. I could see some being sent to the AHL perhaps, but this management team hasn't shown a willingness to really bury salaries. You say these things with certainty; however, the reality is this management group has not really done anything to make room for anyone.

 

[MS]

This team has thought they were rebuilding since March 2017. Whether what they're doing is an actual rebuild is another story.

This team should have 5 rookies on it next year, and we'll be lucky if there's one.

 

[MS]

2-4 years*

And some of these contracts can't be dumped easily. I could see some being sent to the AHL perhaps, but this management team hasn't shown a willingness to really bury salaries. You say these things with certainty; however, the reality is this management group has not really done anything to make room for anyone.

The only reason Goldobin got a look late last year and Virtanen got more icetime is because Granlund/Baertschi/Boeser all got hurt.

Without that, those guys stay buried. We don't do icetime on merit on this team. It's based on how big your contract is, how much of a veteran you are, and how bad management will look if you're benched.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

2-4 years*

And some of these contracts can't be dumped easily. I could see some being sent to the AHL perhaps, but this management team hasn't shown a willingness to really bury salaries. You say these things with certainty; however, the reality is this management group has not really done anything to make room for anyone.

Hutton,Stecher,Boeser,and Virtanen (this season) all legitimately earned a spot on the Canucks...There's no proof to suggest they've blocked any prospects that earned a spot.

Benning has stated more than once.. "If a prospect is ready to play,we will make room for him"...He will be held to that.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Hutton,Stecher,Boeser,and Virtanen (this season) all legitimately earned a spot on the Canucks...There's no proof to suggest they've blocked any prospects.

Benning has stated more than once.. "If a prospect is ready to play,we will make room for him"...He will be held to that.

But we know how much his word is worth.

We will make room for prospects in the starting lineup when they start a rebuild. Or when the next management starts a rebuild.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

But we know how much his word is worth.

We will make room for prospects in the starting lineup when they start a rebuild. Or when the next management starts a rebuild.

It does not matter what he says ( even though he's kept his word).....Its all there on the ice for everybody to see....If a prospect is ready to play,the fans know about it,the media know about it.. and the GM has to do something about it.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It does not matter what he says ( even though he's kept his word).....Its all there on the ice for everybody to see....If a prospect is ready to play,the fans know about it,the media know about it.. and the GM has to do something about it.

I don't trust your judgment on this, sorry.