The Rebuild Started...

[Hammer79]

I want to say it started the moment the Sedins played their final game, but the actions of management signing depth players to big dollars and term doesn't signify a proper rebuild. The Beagle and Roussel signings wreak of poor direction. Are we going to improve from 73 points and grind out an extra four or five next year? I can handle being bad, thems the ropes in the new age NHL, you're good until you're not and then you rebuild from there. But it's hard for me to cheer for a poor team making poor choices, and I feel like that's been the Canucks MO the moment Linden has been hired.

Should have just signed a bunch of mercenaries, called it a development year, and wake up for the draft.

I would argue that signing Beagle and Roussel were good rebuilding moves. Remember when Boeser got run last year and there was no pushback, even from supposedly gritty Gudbranson? Having guys like Roussel on our roster will make teams think twice about running Boeser or EP or Hughes. They can't just play ALL the kids or other teams will take liberties. What's the use of giving them more ice time if they end up on the LTIR because we have no protection? This team was way too easy to play against last year, and I'm frankly quite surprised that anyone would argue with addressing that area.

 

[Canucker]

I would argue that signing Beagle and Roussel were good rebuilding moves. Remember when Boeser got run last year and there was no pushback, even from supposedly gritty Gudbranson? Having guys like Roussel on our roster will make teams think twice about running Boeser or EP or Hughes. They can't just play ALL the kids or other teams will take liberties. What's the use of giving them more ice time if they end up on the LTIR because we have no protection? This team was way too easy to play against last year, and I'm frankly quite surprised that anyone would argue with addressing that area.

Are we still thinking that deterrents exist in the NHL? And even if they did, are we thinking that anyone is going to be deterred by Antoine Roussel? If they really wanted to "deter" anyone, why didn't they sign Reaves? Or some other knuckle dragger? Wouldn't that be the ultimate deterrent?

 

[tantalum]

Having Roussel will actually make it more likely your own players would get run. He's not a goon. He's a pest.

Not that goons deter anything either.

The team was easy to play against for one reason: LACK OF TALENT.

 

[Hammer79]

Are we still thinking that deterrents exist in the NHL? And even if they did, are we thinking that anyone is going to be deterred by Antoine Roussel? If they really wanted to "deter" anyone, why didn't they sign Reaves? Or some other knuckle dragger? Wouldn't that be the ultimate deterrent?

He doesn't have to drop the gloves to be a deterrent. He just needs to be a rat-like player who retaliates. If they want to play dirty, now we have the bodies to get in the muck with them.

 

[tantalum]

He doesn't have to drop the gloves to be a deterrent. He just needs to be a rat-like player who retaliates. If they want to play dirty, now we have the bodies to get in the muck with them.

Seriously? You think the dirty players in the league are not going to play dirty because the other team has a dirty player. Wow. That isn't how it works. Players play dirty and on the line because that's their game and what got them to the league. They won't change because a guy on the other side did the same.

 

[Hit the post]

Seriously? You think the dirty players in the league are not going to play dirty because the other team has a dirty player. Wow. That isn't how it works. Players play dirty and on the line because that's their game and what got them to the league. They won't change because a guy on the other side did the same.

Please. We all know that Cooke was scared ******* when he saw Lucic on the Bruins roster. Imagine how much he really could have hurt Savard otherwise when Cooke eased-up on that headshot when he knew Lucic was on the ice at the time.

 

[Canucker]

He doesn't have to drop the gloves to be a deterrent. He just needs to be a rat-like player who retaliates. If they want to play dirty, now we have the bodies to get in the muck with them.

Then you are playing to the lowest common denominator...it becomes an arms race of meatheads rather than skill. Grit and physical play have their place in the game, but I personally have no interest in seeing a lineup that places the interests of "physical retribution" or "protection" over winning.

The game is evolving and unfortunately we have dinosaurs running the show here.

 

[Sleestak Nation]

Seriously? You think the dirty players in the league are not going to play dirty because the other team has a dirty player. Wow. That isn't how it works. Players play dirty and on the line because that's their game and what got them to the league. They won't change because a guy on the other side did the same.

Agreed. And all it screams to me is that the Canucks better damned good on the penalty kill every time Roussel "retaliates".

 

[CanaFan]

He doesn't have to drop the gloves to be a deterrent. He just needs to be a rat-like player who retaliates. If they want to play dirty, now we have the bodies to get in the muck with them.

And that benefits guys like Pettersson and Boeser how exactly? If anything games will become chippier and dirtier because a guy like Roussel is doing his thing. If you want a deterrent, bring in an actual fighter not a rat.

 

[CanaFan]

I would argue that signing Beagle and Roussel were good rebuilding moves. Remember when Boeser got run last year and there was no pushback, even from supposedly gritty Gudbranson? Having guys like Roussel on our roster will make teams think twice about running Boeser or EP or Hughes. They can't just play ALL the kids or other teams will take liberties. What's the use of giving them more ice time if they end up on the LTIR because we have no protection? This team was way too easy to play against last year, and I'm frankly quite surprised that anyone would argue with addressing that area.

We were easy to play against because the team was full of terrible players. Nothing has changed in that regard.

 

[Seattle Totems]

If anything Roussel is going to invite more players to take liberties with the Canucks because he doesn't fight his own battles.

 

[passive voice]

1. What do you define as a rebuild?
2. What the **** does it matter that you put a label on everything?

Sorry if I was unclear; I wanted people to use their own definition of a rebuild, and from there answer the poll. I'm curious about how Canucks fans see things.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I would argue that signing Beagle and Roussel were good rebuilding moves. Remember when Boeser got run last year and there was no pushback, even from supposedly gritty Gudbranson? Having guys like Roussel on our roster will make teams think twice about running Boeser or EP or Hughes. They can't just play ALL the kids or other teams will take liberties. What's the use of giving them more ice time if they end up on the LTIR because we have no protection? This team was way too easy to play against last year, and I'm frankly quite surprised that anyone would argue with addressing that area.

You clearly don't know what type of player Roussel is. He's a pest. He probably makes it more likely that someone like Boeser gets run at.

Locking up a mid-30's C in Beagle, long-term with a $3M per year cap hit built heavily in bonuses and a LNTC is such an awful contract.

Neither of these moves are good rebuilding moves. Especially when you factor in the team is already heavy on veterans. Where is this comment about "they can't just play ALL the kids" coming from? Who do you consider to be "kids" on this team? Boeser is entering his second season. And then there's maybe room for Pettersson? Who else? Let's not act like people are talking about playing a bunch of 18 year olds. Making room for 20-22 year old prospects is what rebuilding teams do. That's not throwing them to the fire, that's going with a youth movement.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

• Bonino and Sbisa in the Kesler trade when he could have gone for prospects/pick along with that 1st
• A pick for Dorsett
• A pick for Vey
• Signing Miller
• Signing Vrbata
• Forsling for Clendenning
• A pick for Baertschi
• Signing Bartkowski
• Kassian + Pick for Prust
• Bonino and picks for Sutter and pick
• Shinkaruk for Granlund
• A pick for Larsen
• McCann + a pick for Gudbranson
• Signing Gagner
• Signing Del Zotto
• Signing Nilssson
• Signing Burmistrov
• Signing Vanek
• A pick for Pouliot

These are all moves designed to either compete or shortcut their way to "the next core". He is loading up on veterans. The fact that this so called "rebuilding" team may very likely only have one rookie in their starting line up come october should give you a clue.

P.S.: It is freaking D-A-H-L-E-N. Its seriously not that difficult.

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling..
They were 'competing on the fly' 2014-TDL 2017..Well documented...Linden said there would be no full-on 'rebuild' while the Sedins were still here...(your post 2017 TDL list includes placeholders on short term deals,and the 4th for Pouliot)..

There could be one rookie this October,or there could be as many as four..Also,if I'm not mistaken,there are only 3 players on the team over 30.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling..
They were 'competing on the fly' 2014-TDL 2017..Well documented...Linden said there would be no full-on 'rebuild' while the Sedins were still here...(your post 2017 TDL list includes placeholders on short term deals,and the 4th for Pouliot)..

There could be one rookie this October,or there could be as many as four..Also,if I'm not mistaken,there are only 3 players on the team over 30.

This has already been debunked. There is no rebuild, there has never been a rebuild, this is not a rebuild.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This has already been debunked. There is no rebuild, there has never been a rebuild, this is not a rebuild.

Suit yourself.

 

[Foundational Player]

I would argue that signing Beagle and Roussel were good rebuilding moves. Remember when Boeser got run last year and there was no pushback, even from supposedly gritty Gudbranson? Having guys like Roussel on our roster will make teams think twice about running Boeser or EP or Hughes. They can't just play ALL the kids or other teams will take liberties. What's the use of giving them more ice time if they end up on the LTIR because we have no protection? This team was way too easy to play against last year, and I'm frankly quite surprised that anyone would argue with addressing that area.

Well being young didn't deter the Avalanche from making the playoffs last season. The teams oldest forward was Soderberg at 32 while most of there top 6 was in their early 20s.

Colorado made the playoffs as a young team by being fast, skilled and capitalizing on very effective power play. They were led by a 22 year old center who was mentored by the likes of Gabriel Bourque, Blake Comeau, Colin Wilson and Soderberg as mentioned.

I agree the Canucks need to be tougher to play against but to sign three aging veterans who all play similar games where bodies tend to break down sooner rather than later are counterproductive to rebuilding this roster imo.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Suit yourself.

Just would be nice if people stopped intentionally ignoring the facts in favour of their own fabricated narrative.

 

[I in the Eye]

So what are the measures we should use to determine if Beagle and Rousell actually were successful as a deterrent or not next season?

 

[CanaFan]

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling..
They were 'competing on the fly' 2014-TDL 2017..Well documented...Linden said there would be no full-on 'rebuild' while the Sedins were still here...(your post 2017 TDL list includes placeholders on short term deals,and the 4th for Pouliot)..

There could be one rookie this October,or there could be as many as four..Also,if I'm not mistaken,there are only 3 players on the team over 30.

That only matters if you ignore how most of these "younger" players were acquired:

- Gudbranson (26) for McCann (21) + 2nd round pick
- Pouliot (24) for 4th round pick
- Baertschi (25) for 2nd round pick
- Granlund (25) for Shinkaruk (23)


Plus 4 others (Horvat, Hutton, Markstrom, Gaunce) were here when Benning arrived. Which means Benning has added the following "younger" pieces for "older" pieces:

- 2nd for Bieksa
- 3rd + 7th for Lack
- Sutter (29) for Bonino (30)
- Goldobin + 4th for Hansen
- Motte for Vanek
- Leipsic for Holm
- Stecher UFA
- Boeser 23rd
- Virtanen 6th


It's a lot less impressive when you move beyond glibly looking at numbers and actually look at the players and the way in which they were acquired.


Not to mention the following assets were allowed to walk away or traded for pieces no longer on the team:

- Vey for 2nd
- Clendenning for Forsling
- Pedan for 3rd
- Hamhuis leaves as UFA
- Higgins waived
- Miller leaves as UFA
- Vrbata leaves as UFA
- Prust for Kassian and 6th
- Etem for Jensen and 7th
- Dorsett for 3rd
- Tanev untraded to current date


None of it resembles anything looking like a rebuild. Old players retire, a few draft picks move up, a focus on 22-25 year olds with low upside. Tbh i'm not sure it resembles anything we've ever seen in the NHL before.

 

[Verviticus]

sadly, the rebuild starts when bo horvat is traded for picks

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Great analysis by the Hockey Guy.

I like his everyman approach but his so far off the mark here that I felt a bit bad for him.

 

[Peter10]

My theory: I think Gillis recognized that we needed to rebuild, but Francesco Aquilini was having none of it. The Sedins were only 3 years removed from career seasons and were signed for a few more years. FA probably thought that with the right mix, the Sedins could carry the load for a couple more years.

So he goes out and hires JB and explicitly tells him he's not to do a rebuild, that they wanted a competitive team with butts in the seats for the playoffs. JB does what he can for the next couple of years to win now, much to the chagrin of the fan base that, quite correctly, had been calling for a rebuild. JB becomes the focal point of fan ire, when really he's just following his marching orders. This attempt to retool leads to the precipitous decline of the Sedins and an unintentional rebuild. I speculate that last season was when FA finally came around to the realization that the Sedins were done and the team absolutely needed a rebuild. I think they signaled this when Linden used the dreaded 'R' word.

How bad is it? (Hockey Guy video)

So a random YouTube guy in Canucks sweater is now used as an expert. Glorious

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Just would be nice if people stopped intentionally ignoring the facts in favour of their own fabricated narrative.

I totally agree.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I like his everyman approach but his so far off the mark here that I felt a bit bad for him.

Where was he "far off the mark" ?..I thought the Hockey Guy was very rational in what he said,and backed up the reasons why....Explain?