The Rebuild Started...

When did the rebuild start


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Nick1219

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Mar 15, 2012
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If at all, the rebuild started when we traded Burrows and Hansen, got Dahlen, and drafted EP.

But it's probably true that a real rebuild has not yet started. We should be aggressively acquiring draft picks and prospects rather than signing vets to lengthy contracts.

Basically why I said 2017... at the deadline in 2017 I would say is when it "started" ... but then Benning somehow ran a draft pick deficit this year which was quite surprising.

I don't mind signing 4th line veterans, but not at the expense of ice time for the young guys who are possibly ready to make the jump.
 

JuniorNelson

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Jan 21, 2010
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Canucks propped up failing older players for too long. It was insane. The team has approached sanity with Green but still looks tied to old school thinking regarding vet to rookie ratio. It's crazy in this era, especially because they have enough young players to go another direction!

Canucks need to rethink.
 

Canucks LB

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Oct 12, 2008
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I would say 2017, but really, this management is scared to even use the word rebuild, which aggravates me.
 

Hit the post

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is there a guy eating popcorn emoji here?
How about a gif?

michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-gif-2.gif
 

Hammer79

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Jan 9, 2009
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It didn't start until this season unfortunately. Signing Loui Eriksson is not a move that rebuilding teams do, that was a move to re-energize the Sedins which of course never happened. They should have recognized that the Sedins were close to done and started sooner, but I think they felt they owed it to them to be competitive.

I think the strongest indication that this is a rebuild is that they went out and signed gritty bottom 6 guys to insulate the youth who will be carrying the scoring load rather than trying to find a quick fix to their problems on the top 6. Yes, it took them waaaay too long to get to this point, but I think that they recognize where they are now.
 

RobertKron

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Sep 1, 2007
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It didn't start until this season unfortunately. Signing Loui Eriksson is not a move that rebuilding teams do, that was a move to re-energize the Sedins which of course never happened. They should have recognized that the Sedins were close to done and started sooner, but I think they felt they owed it to them to be competitive.

I think the strongest indication that this is a rebuild is that they went out and signed gritty bottom 6 guys to insulate the youth who will be carrying the scoring load rather than trying to find a quick fix to their problems on the top 6. Yes, it took them waaaay too long to get to this point, but I think that they recognize where they are now.

Actually, according to Benning, they’ve signed gritty bottom sixers to insulate their other gritty* bottom sixers.

*well, also according to Benning.
 
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WetcoastOrca

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The rebuild has been going on for a few years whether intentionally or not.
Another couple of years of being real bad and we could have a really good group of young players. Some draft luck would be huge.
That’s the easy part. Then I think the management group gets fired a year before Bennings contract is up ( maybe even earlier)and we take the difficult steps of shedding the dead wood and making a few strategic trades and signings. Things could turn around quickly with good management. Our scouting already looks way better than we’ve seen in the past.
 

me2

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It didn't start until this season unfortunately. Signing Loui Eriksson is not a move that rebuilding teams do, that was a move to re-energize the Sedins which of course never happened. They should have recognized that the Sedins were close to done and started sooner, but I think they felt they owed it to them to be competitive.

I think the strongest indication that this is a rebuild is that they went out and signed gritty bottom 6 guys to insulate the youth who will be carrying the scoring load rather than trying to find a quick fix to their problems on the top 6. Yes, it took them waaaay too long to get to this point, but I think that they recognize where they are now.
It start in 2013 under Gillis. Then about a year later something happened and it went very wrong.
 
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Hammer79

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It start in 2013 under Gillis. Then about a year later something happened and it went very wrong.
My theory: I think Gillis recognized that we needed to rebuild, but Francesco Aquilini was having none of it. The Sedins were only 3 years removed from career seasons and were signed for a few more years. FA probably thought that with the right mix, the Sedins could carry the load for a couple more years.

So he goes out and hires JB and explicitly tells him he's not to do a rebuild, that they wanted a competitive team with butts in the seats for the playoffs. JB does what he can for the next couple of years to win now, much to the chagrin of the fan base that, quite correctly, had been calling for a rebuild. JB becomes the focal point of fan ire, when really he's just following his marching orders. This attempt to retool leads to the precipitous decline of the Sedins and an unintentional rebuild. I speculate that last season was when FA finally came around to the realization that the Sedins were done and the team absolutely needed a rebuild. I think they signaled this when Linden used the dreaded 'R' word.

How bad is it? (Hockey Guy video)
 
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y2kcanucks

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Based on the evidence, the rebuild has not started. This is just a bad team that is quite directionless. Management that thinks they can compete for the playoffs every year, but the results just aren't there.

Throughout the last several years the Canucks have loaded up the team with veterans. Even last year it was stockpiled with veterans. During the season they traded away a draft pick, and they traded away a prospect (for now pieces). They have not traded away a player straight up for a draft pick since June 2015 when they traded away Kevin Bieksa for a 2nd round pick, but then a month later they flipped that draft pick to bring in Brandon Sutter. This team has not acquired a pick in the top 3 rounds, for a player, and kept and used that pick at the draft since they got a 1st round pick back as part of the Ryan Kesler trade. The lack of draft picks acquired does not suggest that this team is in a rebuild.

Every year the Canucks load up on veterans. Some people will point to the team adding a couple of rookies or youth to the lineup, but I easily counter that by pointing to the fact that every team in the NHL adds rookies and youth to the lineup. That was something that our teams have typically had problems doing, but if you actually look around the league, including the contenders, young players are incorporated into their lineups with regularity. The Boston Bruins are an example of this. They've been adding youth into their lineup steadily in recent years; however, they clearly are not in a rebuild. They did an aggressive retool in 2015, or a one year mini-rebuild perhaps (much more than anything Benning ever did here); however, they have kept the majority of their core and have not been afraid to put their youth in key roles. While Benning is too busy focusing on overloading the team with veterans and 4th liners, Boston focused on adding skill players and giving opportunities to their top young players to play with those skill players. They avoided overloading their team with aging veterans.

Some will point to our prospect pool as an indication that the Canucks are rebuilding, but that over simplifies the Canucks situation and also ignores facts. First of all, any team that has been as bad as the Canucks have been will have an improved prospect pool. Any team. That's just the nature of how the NHL draft works. Bad teams are rewarded with higher draft picks. Our drafting in other rounds has not been entirely incompetent either, so we are starting to accumulate some decent prospects. That's not the result of a rebuild, that's the result of the team just plain being bad. Furthermore, we're adding some decent prospects that are on the same level that other teams have plenty of as well. Just look at Tampa for example. They've been one of the top teams in the league for most of Benning's tenure here, yet they also have a stockpile of prospects that I would say is much deeper than what Benning has assembled. That's without Tampa having a single top 10 pick during this time period (Benning has had 4), and with Tampa only having 3 first round picks in the last 5 drafts.

Each year Benning has been here the Canucks have spent to the cap. Last year the Canucks went over the cap due to Brock Boeser hitting his bonuses. It's very rare for rebuilding teams to be this expensive. In some cases you'll see rebuilding teams take on other team's bad contracts in order to add an extra prospect or draft pick, but the Canucks haven't bothered to do that. Instead, every year they are big players in the UFA market, often times adding their own bad contracts. Again, not something you usually see from rebuilding teams especially when you factor in these contracts are multi-year deals.


So, looking at the evidence and how the team has been run, it's safe to conclude that the Canucks have not yet even started a rebuild. They may call it a rebuild, the standings may suggest they're probably in a rebuild, but it's not a rebuild. Instead, this is merely a bad team that has poor management. It's a team that's trending down and is stuck in the bottom of the NHL standings, yet has management that continues to try to make the playoffs every year. The emphasis has not been on rebuilding through the draft, or around youth. The emphasis has quite clearly been to spend to the cap on bringing in as many veterans as they can, leaving a minimal amount of roster spots for youth. They can talk about "doing things the right way" and rebuilding through the draft, but the fact of the matter is they have not bothered to employ this strategy. This delayed rebuild is going to keep the Canucks at the bottom of the standings for a long time, in what will be quite easily the darkest time in Canucks history.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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Based on the evidence, the rebuild has not started. This is just a bad team that is quite directionless. Management that thinks they can compete for the playoffs every year, but the results just aren't there.

Throughout the last several years the Canucks have loaded up the team with veterans. Even last year it was stockpiled with veterans. During the season they traded away a draft pick, and they traded away a prospect (for now pieces). They have not traded away a player straight up for a draft pick since June 2015 when they traded away Kevin Bieksa for a 2nd round pick, but then a month later they flipped that draft pick to bring in Brandon Sutter. This team has not acquired a pick in the top 3 rounds, for a player, and kept and used that pick at the draft since they got a 1st round pick back as part of the Ryan Kesler trade. The lack of draft picks acquired does not suggest that this team is in a rebuild.

Every year the Canucks load up on veterans. Some people will point to the team adding a couple of rookies or youth to the lineup, but I easily counter that by pointing to the fact that every team in the NHL adds rookies and youth to the lineup. That was something that our teams have typically had problems doing, but if you actually look around the league, including the contenders, young players are incorporated into their lineups with regularity. The Boston Bruins are an example of this. They've been adding youth into their lineup steadily in recent years; however, they clearly are not in a rebuild. They did an aggressive retool in 2015, or a one year mini-rebuild perhaps (much more than anything Benning ever did here); however, they have kept the majority of their core and have not been afraid to put their youth in key roles. While Benning is too busy focusing on overloading the team with veterans and 4th liners, Boston focused on adding skill players and giving opportunities to their top young players to play with those skill players. They avoided overloading their team with aging veterans.

Some will point to our prospect pool as an indication that the Canucks are rebuilding, but that over simplifies the Canucks situation and also ignores facts. First of all, any team that has been as bad as the Canucks have been will have an improved prospect pool. Any team. That's just the nature of how the NHL draft works. Bad teams are rewarded with higher draft picks. Our drafting in other rounds has not been entirely incompetent either, so we are starting to accumulate some decent prospects. That's not the result of a rebuild, that's the result of the team just plain being bad. Furthermore, we're adding some decent prospects that are on the same level that other teams have plenty of as well. Just look at Tampa for example. They've been one of the top teams in the league for most of Benning's tenure here, yet they also have a stockpile of prospects that I would say is much deeper than what Benning has assembled. That's without Tampa having a single top 10 pick during this time period (Benning has had 4), and with Tampa only having 3 first round picks in the last 5 drafts.

Each year Benning has been here the Canucks have spent to the cap. Last year the Canucks went over the cap due to Brock Boeser hitting his bonuses. It's very rare for rebuilding teams to be this expensive. In some cases you'll see rebuilding teams take on other team's bad contracts in order to add an extra prospect or draft pick, but the Canucks haven't bothered to do that. Instead, every year they are big players in the UFA market, often times adding their own bad contracts. Again, not something you usually see from rebuilding teams especially when you factor in these contracts are multi-year deals.


So, looking at the evidence and how the team has been run, it's safe to conclude that the Canucks have not yet even started a rebuild. They may call it a rebuild, the standings may suggest they're probably in a rebuild, but it's not a rebuild. Instead, this is merely a bad team that has poor management. It's a team that's trending down and is stuck in the bottom of the NHL standings, yet has management that continues to try to make the playoffs every year. The emphasis has not been on rebuilding through the draft, or around youth. The emphasis has quite clearly been to spend to the cap on bringing in as many veterans as they can, leaving a minimal amount of roster spots for youth. They can talk about "doing things the right way" and rebuilding through the draft, but the fact of the matter is they have not bothered to employ this strategy. This delayed rebuild is going to keep the Canucks at the bottom of the standings for a long time, in what will be quite easily the darkest time in Canucks history.
This topic is flogging a dead horse...."rebuild".."transition to youth"..?...All of the media are calling it a rebuild,and rebuilding teams are generally at the bottom of the standings right.?

Benning has not actively tried to acquire lots of picks,but these moves don't suggest he's loading up on veterans.

  • Dahlin
  • Goldobin
  • Petrus Palmu (via the pick for Hansen)
  • Boucher, via wavers,
  • Brisebois for Lack.
  • Leipsic for Holm-
  • Motte: kind of a whatever return for Vanek,but still a move to get younger
What young prospects have been blocked by veteran players that Benning has brought in?

Yes,bad teams are rewarded with good players..is not that why we have the draft..?..Is our current prospect pool now invalidated because Benning didn't acquire enough picks or do things the 'right way".?

I wouldn't trade Tampa's current prospect pool for ours...and don't forget they went through a span of 6 years and only made the playoffs once (2007-11)....

So they spent to cap..its Aqualini's money...Other than Boesers bonus' going over,what are the ramifications of that?
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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My theory: I think Gillis recognized that we needed to rebuild, but Francesco Aquilini was having none of it. The Sedins were only 3 years removed from career seasons and were signed for a few more years. FA probably thought that with the right mix, the Sedins could carry the load for a couple more years.

So he goes out and hires JB and explicitly tells him he's not to do a rebuild, that they wanted a competitive team with butts in the seats for the playoffs. JB does what he can for the next couple of years to win now, much to the chagrin of the fan base that, quite correctly, had been calling for a rebuild. JB becomes the focal point of fan ire, when really he's just following his marching orders. This attempt to retool leads to the precipitous decline of the Sedins and an unintentional rebuild. I speculate that last season was when FA finally came around to the realization that the Sedins were done and the team absolutely needed a rebuild. I think they signaled this when Linden used the dreaded 'R' word.

How bad is it? (Hockey Guy video)

Great analysis by the Hockey Guy.
 

adamzilla

Registered User
Mar 9, 2008
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Vancouver
My theory: I think Gillis recognized that we needed to rebuild, but Francesco Aquilini was having none of it. The Sedins were only 3 years removed from career seasons and were signed for a few more years. FA probably thought that with the right mix, the Sedins could carry the load for a couple more years.

So he goes out and hires JB and explicitly tells him he's not to do a rebuild, that they wanted a competitive team with butts in the seats for the playoffs. JB does what he can for the next couple of years to win now, much to the chagrin of the fan base that, quite correctly, had been calling for a rebuild. JB becomes the focal point of fan ire, when really he's just following his marching orders. This attempt to retool leads to the precipitous decline of the Sedins and an unintentional rebuild. I speculate that last season was when FA finally came around to the realization that the Sedins were done and the team absolutely needed a rebuild. I think they signaled this when Linden used the dreaded 'R' word.

How bad is it? (Hockey Guy video)


This is exactly what happened. Linden was always the talking head to keep the fans in line because the fans were smarter than Francesco and he didn't know it.
 

Shareefruck

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Apr 2, 2005
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Vancouver, BC
2013 is the obvious answer. Traded NHL players (Schneider) for futures (9th overall pick). Again the next year with Kesler for 24th OV. Just because we have done a very very (very very very) poor job of rebuilding, doesn't mean it hasn't started since we began trading roster players for draft picks. Our one anomaly season where we made the playoffs and got a late pick we ended up with Boeser, so that helped our rebuild the most! lol
I may be misremembering, but both of those trades were instances where our hands were forced, were they not? Kesler was for sure.
 

desiboyyessir

Registered User
Nov 2, 2017
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23
The rebuild you say? What the heck type of team keeps aging Edler and weak D-man in Gubranson, trade assets Tanev, Sutter wait theirs more then signs two veterans eg Beagle and Rousell which will mean Goldobin will be the guy out next year. And we already know what the homers will say, eg "Goldobin can't win board battle" Get ready for hearing this. I didn't mention the great signings of Erikson and Gagner, lol what type of team rebuilds like this?

point is this team is not rebuilding they are in the middle. It's a comedy show to watch, honestly every year Benning goes out signs veterans for long term and then we hear the homers say things like "Well we need veterans, because A) Toughness b) powerplay woes c) scoring." Ask the homers this question has any of these glorious Benning contracts ever worked out?

lol another year of the Canucks' tire fire will continue. Nothing will change, Petterson is being hyped up to be the next big thing, lol if he starts to struggle, well.............

bottom line- nothing will change.
 

Pavel96

Registered User
Apr 7, 2015
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My theory: I think Gillis recognized that we needed to rebuild, but Francesco Aquilini was having none of it. The Sedins were only 3 years removed from career seasons and were signed for a few more years. FA probably thought that with the right mix, the Sedins could carry the load for a couple more years.

So he goes out and hires JB and explicitly tells him he's not to do a rebuild, that they wanted a competitive team with butts in the seats for the playoffs. JB does what he can for the next couple of years to win now, much to the chagrin of the fan base that, quite correctly, had been calling for a rebuild. JB becomes the focal point of fan ire, when really he's just following his marching orders. This attempt to retool leads to the precipitous decline of the Sedins and an unintentional rebuild. I speculate that last season was when FA finally came around to the realization that the Sedins were done and the team absolutely needed a rebuild. I think they signaled this when Linden used the dreaded 'R' word.

How bad is it? (Hockey Guy video)

"JB does what he can for the next few years to win now" = 'JB creates the worst team in the NHL over the next few years while spending to the cap and trading futures to win now."

"JB becomes the focal point of fan ire, when he's really just following marching orders" = 'JB becomes the focal point of fan ire because he's been so unbelievably bad at executing the wrong plan (that he should have known better not to even attempt anyways)'

Linden only used the 'dreaded R word' because he was backed into a corner of common sense, and when repeatedly pressed/mocked by media personalities to admit the obvious (they had just come off of the three least competitive seasons in canucks history) - he had to. I still can't "wrap my head around it".
 

y2kcanucks

Better than you
Aug 3, 2006
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This topic is flogging a dead horse...."rebuild".."transition to youth"..?...All of the media are calling it a rebuild,and rebuilding teams are generally at the bottom of the standings right.?

Benning has not actively tried to acquire lots of picks,but these moves don't suggest he's loading up on veterans.

  • Dahlin
  • Goldobin
  • Petrus Palmu (via the pick for Hansen)
  • Boucher, via wavers,
  • Brisebois for Lack.
  • Leipsic for Holm-
  • Motte: kind of a whatever return for Vanek,but still a move to get younger
What young prospects have been blocked by veteran players that Benning has brought in?

Yes,bad teams are rewarded with good players..is not that why we have the draft..?..Is our current prospect pool now invalidated because Benning didn't acquire enough picks or do things the 'right way".?

I wouldn't trade Tampa's current prospect pool for ours...and don't forget they went through a span of 6 years and only made the playoffs once (2007-11)....

So they spent to cap..its Aqualini's money...Other than Boesers bonus' going over,what are the ramifications of that?

I don't care what the media is calling it, it's not a rebuild. I've given you the evidence as to why it's not a rebuild, which you conveniently ignored.

No one said our prospect pool is invalidated because Benning didn't acquire enough picks. Stop being intentionally obtuse. I'm simply stating that ANY team that has been as bad as the Canucks have been would have a good prospect pool. This isn't some magical thing Benning came up with. Furthermore, I have shown how non-rebuilding teams have been able to build just as good of a prospect pool, if not better.

And the list of players you just came up with does not support that this team is in a rebuild. Acquiring players in their 20's as the main moves does not support rebuild. It suggests Benning is trying to avoid a rebuild by using as many shortcuts as he can. Ironically all he's done is prolong the team's stay at the bottom of the standings by not embracing a rebuild.
 
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HankNDank

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Oct 25, 2013
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I may be misremembering, but both of those trades were instances where our hands were forced, were they not? Kesler was for sure.
Whether it was forced or not, since 2013, we have either had 2 first round picks, or a top 10 pick, or both with the exception of where we drafted Boeser. Call it an accidental rebuild or whatever, but it's been happening. If we took Nylander and tkachuk instead of Virtanen/juolevi, most people would say it's been a successful rebuild. Just because we missed on our top picks, doesn't mean the rebuild didn't start in 2013.
 

tantalum

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But they weren’t rebuilding then. They were trying a quick retool and failed miserably at it. I believe they are still trying that but I can see some argument for the 2017 deadline being a point where maybe they stopped trying the retool. Then summer 2017 hit along with a dreadful 2018 deadline and terrible veteran laden July 1 this year. If they are rebuilding then just like the re-tool they are doing a piss poor job.
 

Seattle Totems

Registered User
Apr 14, 2010
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Trading veterans for additional draft picks and prospects not subject to waivers and opening up spots for these players is the basic definition of a rebuild.

Virtually nothing the Canucks have done is congruent with that.

All they have really achieved is better draft position and better prospects as a result. The team is still largely built around veterans with the same number of spots available to prospects from past eras.

That is the full extent of the Canucks "rebuild".
 

Tables of Stats

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Nov 1, 2011
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Vancouver, BC
The main reason I don't think the rebuild has started yet is that I firmly believe that the next management group will have to rebuild our current 'rebuild'. The only thing that might change that is getting lucky and managing to snag a top 3 pick in at least one of the next two drafts while managing to acquire a future 1st line center and a can't miss top 2 defenseman.
 
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