Tribute The Rebuild Poll: 2023-24 Playoffs or Tanking?

[Gustave]

Running out of assists like Toffoli, to get prospects for. this team needs draft picks now and ufa in the summer

This, the UFA's will make us or break us. We don't have the whole thing coming in from the inside, we just don't have the time. If we had a steady stream of prospects coming in form the Berg years, we would be okay, but the gigagntic gap between Suzuki Caufield and the prospect field that seems to have started the last two Berg drafts and the first two Hugo draft is too wide to mesh.

We need the top 5 pick O prospect this coming draft, and to sign players on the market coming in. Otherwise we'll be part of the long list of middle of the pack teams that tried to tank but couldn't become relevant. The drafting probably bought us a Dcore, but it didn't yield a Fcore at this point.

 

[Benstheman]

This, the UFA's will make us or break us. We don't have the whole thing coming in from the inside, we just don't have the time. If we had a steady stream of prospects coming in form the Berg years, we would be okay, but the gigagntic gap between Suzuki Caufield and the prospect field that seems to have started the last two Berg drafts and the first two Hugo draft is too wide to mesh.

We need the top 5 pick O prospect this coming draft, and to sign players on the market coming in. Otherwise we'll be part of the long list of middle of the pack teams that tried to tank but couldn't become relevant. The drafting probably bought us a Dcore, but it didn't yield a Fcore at this point.

not sure what will be disponible this summer in terms of UFAs. But i agree with you even though, in my mind, 2025 was the summer to start signing key players, since we getting rid of many contracts like Savard, Dvorak, Armia, Evans.

 

[BLONG7]

There's 4 relevant forwards on the team , everybody else is irrelevant and should be flipped for the rebuild.

Suzuki Caufield Dach and Slafkovsky are the only forwards worth even talking about everybody else should be flipped , you can keep newhook good third line soldier

God please tank.

I like the D and it will get better when the kids develop and get in the lineup

We are 3-4 years away I know fefans want the rebuild to end soon but we will just be spinning our wheels for 10 years like the Pacio DD era if we try to compete for 8th in the east again.

I know some people think DD Pacio Subban era was the good old days but frankly those teams were absolute trash when compared to contenders around the league. We should strive for more than the garbage teams we had during the 2000's that never properly rebuilt

Those years, with Subban/Pacio were awful teams, and our so many shortfalls were covered by Price.....that's basically it in a nutshell....it was not recognized, and everyone said, hey the goalie is part of the team too !!! Starting with Therrien and Bergevin. The more Bergevin tinkered, the more we fell in the standings, if Price did not save us, or was injured which happened all to often.
Thanks to Kreider....

We are now in a true rebuild mode, all the while trying to come out slowly and methodically......there is a plan....
The biggest thing we need, and have needed is more offence, and we are getting closer. As you mention we have those core 4 forwards, and that group still needs one more huge piece, or two nicer pieces to make a true Top 6 to compete, and score when needed.



The young D coming along is fantastic, and the goaltending if not Monty can be found......we are in good shape......but everyone is losing patience because we have been awful since 2017.

We will be signing ufa's possibly next season, but if not, the season right after that....

Stay tuned.....

 

[Lshap]

Those years, with Subban/Pacio were awful teams, and our so many shortfalls were covered by Price.....that's basically it in a nutshell....it was not recognized, and everyone said, hey the goalie is part of the team too !!! Starting with Therrien and Bergevin. The more Bergevin tinkered, the more we fell in the standings, if Price did not save us, or was injured which happened all to often.
Thanks to Kreider....

We are now in a true rebuild mode, all the while trying to come out slowly and methodically......there is a plan....
The biggest thing we need, and have needed is more offence, and we are getting closer. As you mention we have those core 4 forwards, and that group still needs one more huge piece, or two nicer pieces to make a true Top 6 to compete, and score when needed.



The young D coming along is fantastic, and the goaltending if not Monty can be found......we are in good shape......but everyone is losing patience because we have been awful since 2017.

We will be signing ufa's possibly next season, but if not, the season right after that....

Stay tuned.....

Signing UFAs has nothing to do with a rebuild. Every team with cap space is chasing the same top players and, frankly, I'm not optimistic about Montreal's chances at signing one. Even then, while some UFAs make their team better, they rarely turn them into a contender.

Successful rebuilds depend on drafting top talent and surrounding it with veteran leadership. Our only proven top talent is Suzuki, Caufield, and Dach. Obviously that's not nearly enough. We either to discover stars in our existing prospect pool or we have to find them in the next draft. A bunch of good prospects don't add up to a great team.

 

[overlords]

 

[Rapala]

View attachment 779219

LOLOLOLOL

Great depiction of last season.

 

[Miller Time]

Signing UFAs has nothing to do with a rebuild. Every team with cap space is chasing the same top players and, frankly, I'm not optimistic about Montreal's chances at signing one. Even then, while some UFAs make their team better, they rarely turn them into a contender.

Successful rebuilds depend on drafting top talent and surrounding it with veteran leadership. Our only proven top talent is Suzuki, Caufield, and Dach. Obviously that's not nearly enough. We either to discover stars in our existing prospect pool or we have to find them in the next draft. A bunch of good prospects don't add up to a great team.

interesting that you consider Dach "proven" top talent, but not Guhle... If anything, i'd say that with what we've seen thus far, Guhle is a better bet to be a top-pairing talent than Dach is of being a top-line talent...

and really, both Suzuki and Caufield remain bottom-tier "top line" players at this point, neither has shown the consistency as of yet to be locks to becoming top-tier first line players...

beyond that, I think in looking at players with a good chance of becoming top line talent, our in-house group is larger than you position it...

in the NHL:
Suzuki, Dach
Caufield, Slaf, Newhook
Guhle, Barron

in the prospect pool
Mesar, Beck (both longshots)
Roy, Heinman (both longshots)
RB, Hutson, Mailloux, Konyushkov, Engstrom

the 1st this year and the two next year will add to that pool (or get used to add a player closer to/established already).

imo, we've got the foundation in place so as to be realistically 1-2 UFA/trade acquisitions away from having the right mix of top talent to have ice a contender in 2-4 years

if you look at the contending rosters this year, Colorado and LAK are the only teams being led by top talent drafted high (top 10), all the other rosters (unless you still count the Oilers in... which might be fair as they look to have figured things out, albeit fragile) of top teams are led by players either acquired in trade/UFA or later picks developed internally over time... Dallas, Carolina, NYR, Boston et. these teams are built off of talent acquired through multiple channels, with strong foundations of depth. We're on that path and with assets like Dach/Newhook/Roy/Hutson et. it will take some time to find out which, if any, are able to transition into that elite/top-end category. Only takes 1-2 to really break out (like a Pastarnak or Aho), provided the foundation/depth is strong.

Hughes has been following a pretty clear plan, and shared quite transparently that over the next 1-2 years, leveraging the assets accumulated (including cap space and team culture that appeals to elite performers) to target a major talent is the intention... i'd be surprised if by the start of the '25-26 season, we haven't seen that play out.

Future is bright

 

[Frankenheimer]

I'm not sure there any decisions to be made right now. Most of the trades will happen at trade deadline, at which time we will know our situation. If we're out of contention, then definitely sell whoever we can. The only player who could probably be sold now and which would have an impact on our fortunes is Montembeault, but this needs to be evaluated according to our objective of developing players and next year. We cannot get out of the habit of playing competitively if we're serious about player development.

 

[BLONG7]

Signing UFAs has nothing to do with a rebuild. Every team with cap space is chasing the same top players and, frankly, I'm not optimistic about Montreal's chances at signing one. Even then, while some UFAs make their team better, they rarely turn them into a contender.

Successful rebuilds depend on drafting top talent and surrounding it with veteran leadership. Our only proven top talent is Suzuki, Caufield, and Dach. Obviously that's not nearly enough. We either to discover stars in our existing prospect pool or we have to find them in the next draft. A bunch of good prospects don't add up to a great team.

I think in 2 years......you will see an impact player added...........ufa or trade.

I am fully aware, that adding ufa's has nothing to do with a rebuild.....they can if done correctly be the correct piece that gets added to make a team a much better product.

We have also seen teams like the Oilers, and Sabres draft very well only to see what?

Slippery slope.

 

[Lshap]

interesting that you consider Dach "proven" top talent, but not Guhle... If anything, i'd say that with what we've seen thus far, Guhle is a better bet to be a top-pairing talent than Dach is of being a top-line talent...

and really, both Suzuki and Caufield remain bottom-tier "top line" players at this point, neither has shown the consistency as of yet to be locks to becoming top-tier first line players...

beyond that, I think in looking at players with a good chance of becoming top line talent, our in-house group is larger than you position it...

in the NHL:
Suzuki, Dach
Caufield, Slaf, Newhook
Guhle, Barron

in the prospect pool
Mesar, Beck (both longshots)
Roy, Heinman (both longshots)
RB, Hutson, Mailloux, Konyushkov, Engstrom

the 1st this year and the two next year will add to that pool (or get used to add a player closer to/established already).

imo, we've got the foundation in place so as to be realistically 1-2 UFA/trade acquisitions away from having the right mix of top talent to have ice a contender in 2-4 years

if you look at the contending rosters this year, Colorado and LAK are the only teams being led by top talent drafted high (top 10), all the other rosters (unless you still count the Oilers in... which might be fair as they look to have figured things out, albeit fragile) of top teams are led by players either acquired in trade/UFA or later picks developed internally over time... Dallas, Carolina, NYR, Boston et. these teams are built off of talent acquired through multiple channels, with strong foundations of depth. We're on that path and with assets like Dach/Newhook/Roy/Hutson et. it will take some time to find out which, if any, are able to transition into that elite/top-end category. Only takes 1-2 to really break out (like a Pastarnak or Aho), provided the foundation/depth is strong.

Hughes has been following a pretty clear plan, and shared quite transparently that over the next 1-2 years, leveraging the assets accumulated (including cap space and team culture that appeals to elite performers) to target a major talent is the intention... i'd be surprised if by the start of the '25-26 season, we haven't seen that play out.

Future is bright

My fault for not being clear: When I was talking about our limited top-end talent I was referring to our offence. I'm pretty optimistic about our D overall and agree Guhle has the potential to be a top player.

I'm a lot less optimistic about being able to score when it matters. I've seen too many good Habs teams lose playoff series because their offence was thin. Our future forward depth might look good, but at the moment not a single PPG player is on our roster nor likely to be found in our prospect pool. Come the eventual return to the playoffs, I'm worried we'll be shutdown – like always – because we don't have game-breaking offence. Cup-winners almost always have those guys and most are players they drafted. Sure, Vegas proved there's more than one way to win a Cup, but there are better odds of finding elite talent at the top of the draft heap than assembling a megatrade to acquire an Eichel or hoping Stone signs with you.

Could we get lucky with a prospect or two? Could Hughes pull off another bold trade for a Dach? Could we sign a top UFA? Yes, yes, and yes. But if we're banking on later round luck and bold moves, what's the point of tanking? Our reward for losing has thus far been Slafkovsky, Reinbacher, Hutson, Roy etc.. Whether they become good players is beside the point. The only real question is whether they're better than other teams' draft picks.

 

[Naslundforever]

View attachment 779957

Well since our polls are clearly not anonymous I’ll say it was a trick question. I won’t be following the habs through more failed tanking…

 

[ReHabs]

Given games-in-hand, we are further from the cutoff point than appears. If we were actually on the cusp of a playoff spot I think the vibe would be different. Meaningful games are always preferred to meaningless games.

Twenty years ago I remember the Habs struggled to make the playoffs, had an anemic offence, no stars, and an arrogant management who thought they were the smartest in the room. Twenty years since, if it wasn’t for Bob Gainey and Pierre Gauthier’s faith in Carey Price, it seems like not one thing has changed.

Let’s hope Hughes doesn’t fumble this year’s tank and hold onto Monahan for too long. I don’t want to tank but we have insufficient depth and plenty of injuries and severely underproducing players — it ain’t gonna happen.

 

[DAChampion]

Let’s hope Hughes doesn’t fumble this year’s tank and hold onto Monahan for too long. I don’t want to tank but we have insufficient depth and plenty of injuries and severely underproducing players — it ain’t gonna happen.

 

[StCaufield]

So the leading poll is sell everyone? Wonder what we can get for Rein then? Or Caufield. What a bad take

 

[Naslundforever]

First of all, the poll says trade everyone born before Y2K (2000), so Caufield and Reinbacher would be excluded. Also, you're taking things way too literally. No one here who wants to tank, and voted for that option in the poll, would be willing to trade Suzuki because he was born in 1999. Talk about getting worked up over nothing.

Talk about a sad thread if anything

 

[vokiel]

Personally, I think they'll want another D. BPA right?

 

[StCaufield]

First of all, the poll says trade everyone born before Y2K (2000), so Caufield and Reinbacher would be excluded. Also, you're taking things way too literally. No one here who wants to tank, and voted for that option in the poll, would be willing to trade Suzuki because he was born in 1999. Talk about getting worked up over nothing.

Swore the 2K thing wasn’t there but you’re right. Hardly anything to sell then lol

 

[Miller Time]

My fault for not being clear: When I was talking about our limited top-end talent I was referring to our offence. I'm pretty optimistic about our D overall and agree Guhle has the potential to be a top player.

I'm a lot less optimistic about being able to score when it matters. I've seen too many good Habs teams lose playoff series because their offence was thin. Our future forward depth might look good, but at the moment not a single PPG player is on our roster nor likely to be found in our prospect pool. Come the eventual return to the playoffs, I'm worried we'll be shutdown – like always – because we don't have game-breaking offence. Cup-winners almost always have those guys and most are players they drafted. Sure, Vegas proved there's more than one way to win a Cup, but there are better odds of finding elite talent at the top of the draft heap than assembling a megatrade to acquire an Eichel or hoping Stone signs with you.

Could we get lucky with a prospect or two? Could Hughes pull off another bold trade for a Dach? Could we sign a top UFA? Yes, yes, and yes. But if we're banking on later round luck and bold moves, what's the point of tanking? Our reward for losing has thus far been Slafkovsky, Reinbacher, Hutson, Roy etc.. Whether they become good players is beside the point. The only real question is whether they're better than other teams' draft picks.

Fair enough... i certainly share in the PTSD driven fear of never-ending offensive futility, 40 years without a top scorer will do that to anyone. I just don't think that the past is much of a barometer of what's to come, despite the emotions of it all.

This is the best under 25 group of forwards I've seen assembled in the organization in decades. Sure, many won't reach their ceilings, but it only takes 1-2 to really hit it. For any organization, "luck" is a factor.

The Bolts aren't the bolts without Kucherov and Point emerging as stars from being picked outstide the first round... Kuch passed the PPG mark at D6, Point at D5 (and both did it with a roster that was deep and talented thanks to some high picks hitting and some quality player acquisitions)... the Drouin miss was salvaged masterfully... that was 1 of 4 high picks the bolts missed on along with Koekekok (10 OA), Connolly (6OA), Foote (14OA)...

"luck" is as much about increasing the # of shots at acquiring/developing the 2-4 elite talents that any contender needs, as it is about anything else.

Suzuki, CC, Dach, Newhook, Slaf all have the tools to be ppg/top tier players in the prime if they hit their respective ceilings. We'll find out over the next 2-4 years which/if any do. Far too premature to be certain none will.

then, it's not a matter of "if" Hughes makes an aggressive move to trade for or sign another 1-2 players with that potential (or already displaying it), it's when. That intention has been clearly stated, and the body of work thus far gives no reason to doubt they will execute on it, just again a question of whether it succeeds or not.


There's only so much any team/GM can control. What we've seen in 2 years of this management group suggests a better understanding of how to build towards that then we saw from any other management group in the last 40 years... Patience is hard, but in this case warranted imo.

 

[SwiftyHab]

Swore the 2K thing wasn’t there but you’re right. Hardly anything to sell then lol

Can’t change the option without deleting the poll results. Don’t take Y2K literally, just assume it means trade anyone that’s too old to be helpful for a rebuild.

 

[the valiant effort]

I have selected Playoff Bandwagon (Definitely Buyers) aided by Slafkovsky's incoming 55 points down the stretch. As for who to buy, probably Stamkos and/or Nylander.

 

[SwiftyHab]

I have selected Playoff Bandwagon (Definitely Buyers) aided by Slafkovsky's incoming 55 points down the stretch. As for who to buy, probably Stamkos and/or Nylander.

Would be interesting to track out sentiment after every win or lose

 

[SwiftyHab]

Muddy middle is getting bigger

 

[First Line]

Would be interesting to track out sentiment after every win or lose

That would actually not be interesting at all

 

[HuGort]

This, the UFA's will make us or break us. We don't have the whole thing coming in from the inside, we just don't have the time. If we had a steady stream of prospects coming in form the Berg years, we would be okay, but the gigagntic gap between Suzuki Caufield and the prospect field that seems to have started the last two Berg drafts and the first two Hugo draft is too wide to mesh.

We need the top 5 pick O prospect this coming draft, and to sign players on the market coming in. Otherwise we'll be part of the long list of middle of the pack teams that tried to tank but couldn't become relevant. The drafting probably bought us a Dcore, but it didn't yield a Fcore at this point.

Would you trade Matheson this season while his value is high? At 29 he's probably not in long term plans. Don't want to do another Josh Anderson and wait too long.

 

[DAChampion]

It appears unlikely that the Habs' will get a good forward in this year's draft.

One Jedi trick that would be cool would be if Hughes could acquire Florida's 2025 pick from Calgary.