I think this summer was a great time to do so, value wise. But yes MM is on the list of tradable assets as soon as possible, in the event he’s playing a bit over his usual quality and carries interesting value.
Tribute The Rebuild Poll: 2023-24 Playoffs or Tanking?
- Thread starter SwiftyHab
- Start date
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
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It would take a lot of courage for Hughes to sell Matheson.
He's a hometown kid, he's a former client, and it would be selling high.
HuGort
Registered User
If return is high enough? Habs get a core young piece and signs another vet defenseman next summer with Matheson 5 million.
But could we get? Toffoli type return? A first and prospect Habs like?
Matheson will probably yield a better return in the offseason than at the trade deadline, barring a key injury on D with a potential contender. Most actual contenders have a D like Matheson -- or two -- in their lineups already.
Teams moving into contention status and needing a mobile, puck-moving D to complete their lineup would be more interested in the offseason, IMO.
Plus, Matheson staying healthy for an entire season should also help raise his trade value at that point.
However, I would keep Matheson an extra season, unless the offer is really astounding.
I think would give Guhle more needed time to truly come into his own at the NHL level. It might also provide management with a chance toes Hutson in a Habs jersey as he auditions in this season's wind down after his NCAA playoff run is over.
It would also provide more time for Reinbacher and Mailloux to develop on the right sides well as for Engstrom to develop as a lefty who can play on the right side.
A future on D without Matheson may look promising right now, in theory, but it's primarily still only a projection right now and not really etched in stone, by any means.
Guhle - Reinbacher
Hutson - Engstrom
Xhekaj - Mailloux
Most of that D -- in bold -- hasn't shown squat at the NHL level. Even if you went with Barron in the lineup, let's say, there'd remain a whole bunch of question marks surrounding our D-Corps, at least in the short term.
Ghule - Barron
Hutson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj/Engstrom - Mailloux
A D-Corps with Matheson in the lineup for a final year, next season, would be a lot more securing as the rest of the team looks to continue progressing, even if Guhle is given a larger role for his development's sake.
Guhle - Barron
Matheson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj - Hutson
Reinbacher could start alongside a veteran at the NHL level and the more diminutive Hutson could start with less pressure on a 3rd pairing alongside a partner that could keep opponents honest. Hutson's would build up his confidence on the point of PP1 during his start at the NHL level.
Meanwhile, Mailloux would get another season of development in key role at the AHL level, working on the D-side of his game.
Engstrom would not be negatively served by one final year of development playing a key role on his European team.
With the youngsters having gained experience at the NHL level in chairs more suited for them, next year, at that stage in their development, moving on from Matheson for the 2025-2026 season would have lesson a negative impact on the progression of the team.
Plus, having Matheson to dangle in a trade offer, along with high draft picks the 2025 offseason wouldn't be bad as Montreal tries to land an elite forward at that juncture...
Teams moving into contention status and needing a mobile, puck-moving D to complete their lineup would be more interested in the offseason, IMO.
Plus, Matheson staying healthy for an entire season should also help raise his trade value at that point.
However, I would keep Matheson an extra season, unless the offer is really astounding.
I think would give Guhle more needed time to truly come into his own at the NHL level. It might also provide management with a chance toes Hutson in a Habs jersey as he auditions in this season's wind down after his NCAA playoff run is over.
It would also provide more time for Reinbacher and Mailloux to develop on the right sides well as for Engstrom to develop as a lefty who can play on the right side.
A future on D without Matheson may look promising right now, in theory, but it's primarily still only a projection right now and not really etched in stone, by any means.
Guhle - Reinbacher
Hutson - Engstrom
Xhekaj - Mailloux
Most of that D -- in bold -- hasn't shown squat at the NHL level. Even if you went with Barron in the lineup, let's say, there'd remain a whole bunch of question marks surrounding our D-Corps, at least in the short term.
Ghule - Barron
Hutson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj/Engstrom - Mailloux
A D-Corps with Matheson in the lineup for a final year, next season, would be a lot more securing as the rest of the team looks to continue progressing, even if Guhle is given a larger role for his development's sake.
Guhle - Barron
Matheson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj - Hutson
Reinbacher could start alongside a veteran at the NHL level and the more diminutive Hutson could start with less pressure on a 3rd pairing alongside a partner that could keep opponents honest. Hutson's would build up his confidence on the point of PP1 during his start at the NHL level.
Meanwhile, Mailloux would get another season of development in key role at the AHL level, working on the D-side of his game.
Engstrom would not be negatively served by one final year of development playing a key role on his European team.
With the youngsters having gained experience at the NHL level in chairs more suited for them, next year, at that stage in their development, moving on from Matheson for the 2025-2026 season would have lesson a negative impact on the progression of the team.
Plus, having Matheson to dangle in a trade offer, along with high draft picks the 2025 offseason wouldn't be bad as Montreal tries to land an elite forward at that juncture...
2025 is the first key offseason date. Dvorak, Armia, Evans, Pezzetta, Kovacevic, Savard and Allen all becoming UFAs, if still Habs by then.
The 2027 offseason is the other. Both Gallagher and Anderson becoming UFAs, as well as Montembeault, if they are still with the team.
The offseason in between these two key dates sees Matheson becoming a UFA and Price's contract finally coming off the books.
Personally, Price retiring as a Hab is fine and I'm positive Matheson will either have been kept and re-signed, or traded for an interesting future before he becomes an UFA (I prefer to see him traded).
The 2024-2025 season should have seen a few veterans get moved at the trade deadline, provided they remain healthy. I suspect Kovacevic, Savard, Allen, Dvorak and Armia would all be serious rental candidates if they haven't been moved before. I'm really not sure what Pezzetta's value would be?
Any 2nd round picks coming back (doubt those players gets a 1st round pick, but who knows) would be welcome to add to the two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks and two 3rd round picks we already have for the 2025 draft.
That will add depth of higher draft picks to enable the Habs to still draft decent prospects if they opt to trade high draft picks, along with, perhaps a veteran like Matheson, and a prospect or two in order to acquire an elite forward.
On top of having prospects gain experience, Hughes should have the cards to add a missing element up front with a mixture of quality draft picks, a quality veteran and quality prospects to trade AND Cap space to sign a high end forward that was acquired.
The 2027 offseason, IMO, following the potential trade of Anderson as a rental at the 2027 trade deadline and the expiration of Gallagher's contract in the 2027 offseason will provide an added 12M in Cap space, on top of any added space under the Cap ceiling.
IMO, the 2027 offseason will be the time to either add a missing piece or two via the UFA market, or add missing pieces via a trade by taking on shorter term Cap for talented depth veterans from a team/teams that is/are forced to make difficult decisions.
Key long term addition(s) during the 2025 offseason.
Tweaking the roster into a projected contender, perhaps via the UFA fronting the 2027 offseason.
Adding a key piece in the 2025 offseason, along with the progression of the talented youth, should help make Montreal a more attractive destination for younger UFAs that might fit a longer, mid term Cup window (three to four years)
Like the idea of seeing what gives by the 2027-2028, with all of the albatross contracts gone, replaced with younger, talented players.
Suzuki (28), Caufield (26), Dach (26), Salfkovsky (23), Newhook (26), Roy (24), Beck (23), a young, high end forward acquired in the 2025 offseason via a trade and another high end UFA forward in the 28 yr-old range acquired on the UFA front in the 2027 offseason should go well as a top-9 with our developing D-Corps.
Caufield - Dach - 2027 UFA acquisition
Slafkovsky - Suzuki - 2025 trade acquisition
Newhook - Beck - Roy
Guhle- Reinbacher
Hutson - Engstrom
Xhekaj - Mailloux
Gravity
Generational Poster
"playing" .500 with 3 or 4 regulation wins. These OT points are a bloody joke.
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
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Most of the league is playing .500 if we go by the standard definition of 1 point per game. That makes no sense though, as the average game sees more than 2 points given out.
For me, .500 means 1 win every 2 games, which is a definition that is agnostic to the OT system. And the Habs have 12 wins in 27 games, so they are a team playing 1.5 games below .500.
Gravity
Generational Poster
The Canadiens are not like anything in the league at the moment. They're just OT specialists. Look at the # of RW compared to the total # of wins around the league. A whopping 7 out of 12 (58.3%) of the Canadiens wins come due to OT.
Regardless of the three NHL teams dead on .500 pt% at the moment, the Canadiens are tied for dead last with RW. They are a statistical anomaly or a terrible team being camouflaged by 3 on 3. Ottawa and St. Louis (the other two teams at .500) have a RW % of 81.8 and 84.6% respectively compared to MTL's 41.6%.
Regardless of the three NHL teams dead on .500 pt% at the moment, the Canadiens are tied for dead last with RW. They are a statistical anomaly or a terrible team being camouflaged by 3 on 3. Ottawa and St. Louis (the other two teams at .500) have a RW % of 81.8 and 84.6% respectively compared to MTL's 41.6%.
- Aug 22, 2006
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Oh we're so making the playoffs. I'm even planning on having a Crow party. So I can feed all you damn tankers lol
In all seriousness, IMO we'll finish closer to the playoffs, then we will to a top 3 pick.
Skip Bayless
The Skip Bayless Show
- Aug 28, 2014
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Team tank for sure.
MSL has got to find a way to get Monahan going, Evans and Anderson is not it bruh.
MSL has got to find a way to get Monahan going, Evans and Anderson is not it bruh.
DAChampion
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Ezpz
No mad pls
- Apr 16, 2013
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One issue we're going to face is the west has way more bad teams than the east. We won't finish close to the playoffs in the east but if we're second last in the east we may legitimately still be picking 7th or 8th. We're 12th in the East now and we'd be 9th in the West. Bottom four of the league are all west.
HuGort
Registered User
Get a core piece for Matheson. Or acquire a pick around 13th or so. Plus our own pick moves up from around 10 to 5.
When we had Carey Price around, I was on here posting in these threads saying how stupid tanking was. All we had to do was make the playoffs, and Carey Price gave us a fighting chance. And Price was amazing in both 2020, and especially 2021 playoffs - so I stand by that argument.
But.....now? I dunno. If we make the playoffs, then what? Our team isn't good enough to win. Whose going to lead us to victories? Our goalies are ~so-so at best. Suzuki/Caufield are fine, but nowhere near as good as some of the most elite forwards out there from other teams. I don't really see a path to us winning in playoffs, even as a cinderella team.
I voted option A. We need to acquire more talent, whether it's by draft (ie tanking), or a major trade/offer sheet signing.
But.....now? I dunno. If we make the playoffs, then what? Our team isn't good enough to win. Whose going to lead us to victories? Our goalies are ~so-so at best. Suzuki/Caufield are fine, but nowhere near as good as some of the most elite forwards out there from other teams. I don't really see a path to us winning in playoffs, even as a cinderella team.
I voted option A. We need to acquire more talent, whether it's by draft (ie tanking), or a major trade/offer sheet signing.
- Jan 18, 2022
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Price was our superstar and tanking when you have a superstar is more bad than good.
Now we don't have a superstar and our 'stars' are hardly star-calibre, so tanking seems to be the only thing feasible absent an ambitious wheeling-dealing GM like Vegas. Hughes and Gorton are... not similarly ambitious. I hope we don't tank until we turn into Buffalo, Bilingue but it seems like this year is another tank. Hughes didn't improve the roster and the players didn't step up.
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hardcorehabs
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2022
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Every team has a shot at winning a Cup in a half decade span. Vegas won a Cup in five years of existence. Meaningless statement.
Buffalo has failed to win a single playoff round in over a decade. The notion that a roster can win the Cup (ie four rounds of playoff games) without having won a single one before is unheard of.
Winning the Cup is surprisingly iterative. Walk before you run. Buffalo hasn’t even walked yet.
My assumption is that we will sell some of Allen or Primeau, Monahan, Pearson, Savard and Wideman (if he gets healthy).
Voted for muddy middle, but my actual answer is in between it and team tank as we should be definite seller for assets we won't need next year (or are pending FA that might not be back) but we shouldn't sell everyone that's not a young guy.
Voted for muddy middle, but my actual answer is in between it and team tank as we should be definite seller for assets we won't need next year (or are pending FA that might not be back) but we shouldn't sell everyone that's not a young guy.
Egresch
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2022
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Of course it looks like. They are tanking for 11 consecutive seasons- 10 consecutive top 10 picks plus Benson at 13 last year. Those should literally be your top two lines plus goalie. This is the third tanking year for Habs.
I agree that rebuild cannot be longer than 5 seasons. Realistically it is this season and maybe next one out of playoff (meaning top 10 draft pick). After that, we replace Dvorak, Savard, Armia with young blood or good free agents and we should be in the playoff spot.
I do not agree they are not ambitious, they are just cautious and patient which is key for successful rebuild. Look at other rebuilding teams making some really stupid moves: Seth Jones contract in Chicago, Gaudreau or Severson in Columbus, Chabot or Korpisalo in Ottawa. Ottawa had this DeBrincat fiasco.
Unfortunatelly, our vets are not great trading chips due to performance/ contract combination, so we just need to stick with some of them and keep developing our young core. Trades for Dach and Newhook show they have the ambition and drive, both came out of nowhere.
Were so screwed with this coaching group,nice job Kent/Jeff.We can't put two solid games together,boring predictable fly off the seat of your pants pond hockey,but no worries Molson magoo says were headed in the right direction
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
Saturday night yes let's make a push
Sunday night f*** it let's tank..
Just that kind of a season and I think it ends up continuing this way, 50/50 we miss the playoffs and are stuck with a pick probably between 8 and 12
Sunday night f*** it let's tank..
Just that kind of a season and I think it ends up continuing this way, 50/50 we miss the playoffs and are stuck with a pick probably between 8 and 12
The odds of missing the playoffs are much higher than 50/50. I still think the Habs get a top 5-7 pick.
Benstheman
Registered User
- Nov 20, 2014
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Considering how hard it is to sign big UFAs in Montreal, i hope they go hard after talent upfront starting 2024 summer. Of course it's starts with 2024 1st pick which i hope will be top 10 or even top 8. We should be able to get a pretty solid offensive prospect out of it.
Then we have UFAs. I think Reinhart and Nylander will want to get paid and will hit the market. I wouldn't pay extra bucks (we know we have to to attract players in MTL) to bring Reinhart but Nylander? I definately would. I'd give a mid round pick to Leafs after the season for his negociation rights and give him 8 X 11M$.
Since it probably won't happen, 2025 will also saw great potential in quality signings.
Now on the trade front, our multiple quality draft picks in 2025 and 2026 and depth in young quality defensive prospects should make it possible to go after a great youngish top 6 scorer. And that time, i wouldn't go after a reclamation project like Newhook or Dach. I would go for a known commodity. Like a 25-26 yo on his last contrat year that we can trade for and sign to an extension immediately.
What we need to compete is top more top 6 talent, one of which needs to be a top line scorer.
Add that to 2024 1st pick and the inclusion of Hutson, Reinbacher and possibly Mailloux on defense and Beck and maybe Roy up front and we become relevant starting in 2026.
We miss talent up front. That's easy to understand.
BLONG7
Registered User
We will be sellers again......................but that doesn't mean tank at all.
Selling off vets, Monahan, Savard etc gives us more draft capital. Draft capital that should be used to aquire a good young forward via trade.
Adding a ufa is very hard, and tricky for the habs.
I think we are seeing some improvements, in certain players, more recently our D and Slaf........
Trust the process guys.......I think HuGo knows where we are heading.
Selling off vets, Monahan, Savard etc gives us more draft capital. Draft capital that should be used to aquire a good young forward via trade.
Adding a ufa is very hard, and tricky for the habs.
I think we are seeing some improvements, in certain players, more recently our D and Slaf........
Trust the process guys.......I think HuGo knows where we are heading.
