Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Gilmour1996]

I don't think it's fair judging him on last year's playoffs because he was recovering from a high ankle sprain which is tough to do. Not sure we should even completely question his play under Keefe either. Seems like a far better fit under Berube. I don't like his personality when being interviewed but what he does on the ice is more important. I think I'd like to see him re-signed for less than maximum term, possibly for 5 years or so, assuming the coach and GM agree.

 

[francis246]

Against Edmonton, Mitchy showed up, he took charge, he took responsibility, he led, he shot when he should. I often question his value to Leafs.
I cannot question him in most games this season. I may have to rethink my position on his value.

Marner just needs to bring this in the playoffs damn it. He’s fully capable. All 4 of our big guys are. My hope is that we keep him away from Matthews. Keep the Tavares, McMann and Marner line together. Matthews, Knies and Domi or throw Nylander up there. But if we want success we have to go back to Tampa series. Marner away from Matthews was incredible against Tampa.

You know the NHL changed the rule so any team can talk to players before July 1st? Did you think all these contracts that get signed first thing July 1st happened in 30 seconds? Obviously teams talk to players before July 1st. If you're trading for a players rights, you should be signing him before July 1st.

Let me ask you this then. How much are you willing to pay Marner before you think about walking away? Some people want to hand him a blank cheque for some reason.

I know there’s a negotiation period. But it’s not 2 years in advance. It’s a week or two before UFA. So how can you convince McDavid to come without tampering before that. You risk loosing one good player and missing out on McDavid.

Personally I think anything over 12 is too much. I’m not a delusional fan. I’d like to see him at 11.5 or take any number under 12. Short term at 4 years.

 

[Divine]

I know there’s a negotiation period. But it’s not 2 years in advance. It’s a week or two before UFA. So how can you convince McDavid to come without tampering before that. You risk loosing one good player and missing out on McDavid.

Personally I think anything over 12 is too much. I’m not a delusional fan. I’d like to see him at 11.5 or take any number under 12. Short term at 4 years.

I don't mean start negotiating with McDavid now. Just sign some 1 year contracts, keep some cap space open. Technically we could have both Marner and McDavid, with McDavid replacing Tavares. I think the possibility of McDavid coming to Toronto is greater than people here would like to think. He has lots of connections to here, has publicly commented last season that Toronto is his favourite team to watch, despite knowing Edmonton fans would lose their minds over it and has publicly stated he wishes his family could watch more of his games but they got to go to sleep.

I'm not even sure Marner settles for 12M. I think that's being generous, especially if you want him for 4 years. His last contract he was arguing he's just as valuable as Matthews and held out, and that was as an RFA. He doesn't come across as the kind of guy to take a team friendly contract. He just watched Draisaitl take 14M and Matthews take 13.5M. I would bet his ask is 13.5M, just as his RFA ask was the same as Matthews.

 

[thewave]

Marner just needs to bring this in the playoffs damn it. He’s fully capable. All 4 of our big guys are. My hope is that we keep him away from Matthews. Keep the Tavares, McMann and Marner line together. Matthews, Knies and Domi or throw Nylander up there. But if we want success we have to go back to Tampa series. Marner away from Matthews was incredible against Tampa.



I know there’s a negotiation period. But it’s not 2 years in advance. It’s a week or two before UFA. So how can you convince McDavid to come without tampering before that. You risk loosing one good player and missing out on McDavid.

Personally I think anything over 12 is too much. I’m not a delusional fan. I’d like to see him at 11.5 or take any number under 12. Short term at 4 years.

The NMCs kill the team. I wish they were gone from the league. I get a 10 team list or something like that but no movement is flat out stupid.

 

[Nineteen67]

He looks and is playing more mature right now.

 

[thusk]

I don't mean start negotiating with McDavid now. Just sign some 1 year contracts, keep some cap space open. Technically we could have both Marner and McDavid, with McDavid replacing Tavares. I think the possibility of McDavid coming to Toronto is greater than people here would like to think. He has lots of connections to here, has publicly commented last season that Toronto is his favourite team to watch, despite knowing Edmonton fans would lose their minds over it and has publicly stated he wishes his family could watch more of his games but they got to go to sleep.

I'm not even sure Marner settles for 12M. I think that's being generous, especially if you want him for 4 years. His last contract he was arguing he's just as valuable as Matthews and held out, and that was as an RFA. He doesn't come across as the kind of guy to take a team friendly contract. He just watched Draisaitl take 14M and Matthews take 13.5M. I would bet his ask is 13.5M, just as his RFA ask was the same as Matthews.

Like the chance stamkos to move in Toronto. Mcdavid will stay with his good friend Draisaitl in Edmonton, his life is already in Edmonton, they just reached stanley cup final and mcdavid look pretty happy there. Mcdavid in toronto is closer to a dream of an option

 

[thusk]

The NMCs kill the team. I wish they were gone from the league. I get a 10 team list or something like that but no movement is flat out stupid.

They never asked him to waive it, so why it should had killed the team? NMC matter when you need to ask to waive it and player reject it, outside of it that' just don't have any impact

 

[ACC1224]

There were reports in Marner’s last negotiation that he wanted close to Matthews contract. I doubt he still feels that way. But what I’m saying is people act like only the stars in Toronto want to be paid. No stars across the league want to be paid as well. We just don’t hear about it as much.

From my understanding they were initially looking for 8.5x8 which Dubas wasn’t interested in. Once he signed Matthews the gap between the 8.5 and Matthews was too great and needed to be closer, rightfully so.

The problem potentially this time around could be the Nylander overpay.

 

[Zybalto]

Special teams aside, I hope things like the Domi signing arnt more of the same for the lack of support our big guns get in the playoffs.

Yet more fun stats:

Last 3 years in the playoffs 5v5 /60:

Marner and Rielly on a line:
Goals For: 3.22
Goals Against: 1.46

Marner without Rielly on a line:
Goals For: 2.98
Goals Against: 1.91

Rielly without Marner on a line:
Goals For: 2.99
Goals Against: 1.59

All lines without Rielly and Marner:
Goals For: 1.17
Goals Against: 3.00

Jeezus thats a brutal difference.

Gotta make the right calls with support players and the Leafs have been the worst team in the league at that (not to mention we've started Campbell and Samsonov the last 4 years)

Thowing in Nylander/Tavares and Matthews, the numbers still read:

All lines without the big 5 last 3 years playoffs:
Goals For: 1.39
Goals Against: 2.82

You can expect a little drop off but thats just an insane clip. Its San Jose Sharks level........ for lines that did this during the regular season:

All lines without the big 5 regular season last 3 years:
Goals For: 2.25
Goals Against: 2.22

Gotta pick the right supporting cast for sure.

 

[Divine]

Like the chance stamkos to move in Toronto. Mcdavid will stay with his good friend Draisaitl in Edmonton, his life is already in Edmonton, they just reached stanley cup final and mcdavid look pretty happy there. Mcdavid in toronto is closer to a dream of an option

Just like Tavares to Toronto was a dream until it happened.

To be fair, the Leafs said no to Stamkos’ contract demands - he was willing to come here but people often leave that part out.

 

[Enga Olly]

You complain about my honesty then call me a liar. Do you lack the intelligence to see your own hypocrisy? Get lost and don't answer that since the answer is so obvious.

Never complained about your honesty - how could i?

 

[LeafSteel]

From my understanding they were initially looking for 8.5x8 which Dubas wasn’t interested in. Once he signed Matthews the gap between the 8.5 and Matthews was too great and needed to be closer, rightfully so.

The problem potentially this time around could be the Nylander overpay.

Perfect summation of the missteps that put us where we are today.

Dubas absolutely screwed the pooch on the 1st Marner contract. Marner would have been perfectly place in an 8 x $8.5 contract, and his popularity amongst Leaf fans would be where it should be, with a reasonable contract.

It would have avoided the whole contentious contract negotiation that soured a lot of Leaf fans, as well as the constant expectation that Marner and Matthews be compensated along the same lines.

2nd misstep was Treliving’s contract with Nylander.

Nylander well outplayed his 1st contract, but bumping him to $11.5 was a stupid overpay, particularly if the plan has always been to resign Marner.

Nylander resigned at $9-$9.5m is where we needed to have landed. It’s within market price and would have still been a decent pay raise for him. That also would set the value for Marner’s camp to see. Marner’s camp need to stop comparing his value to Matthews.

Now we have this cluster-fukc of a situation where Nylander has been overpaid and a portion of the fan base are hating on an extremely talented player of the team, almost entirely due to being desperate to not have to overpay him.

I like Mitch Marner at 9.5-$10. I don’t like Mitch Marner at $12-$13m.

Amazing what a mess mismanagement has made with these 2 players. We really didn’t need to be in this position.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Good to see that he’s going to the net a lot more. Still not big on how effective the dispy doodling up high is but it sure is more fun to watch when he’s confident than it is when he’s second guessing.

 

[thusk]

Just like Tavares to Toronto was a dream until it happened.

To be fair, the Leafs said no to Stamkos’ contract demands - he was willing to come here but people often leave that part out.

Tavares was in a bad team who was going anywhere
vs
Mcdavid playing in a contending team who was stanley cup finalist

Stamkos wanted to stay in Tampa and had no interest of leaving tampa unstead he achieve his goal to win a cup there...