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The Race for the Calder Trophy

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FLAMESFAN said:
Ahhh TOI. A stat as relevant as points when comparing F & D.

Bedard still leads his team in scoring by a fair margin, and is .25 PPG over the next closest
Faceoffs? No one expects a small 18 year old to be good at faceoffs in the NHL.

Bedard is back soon, and if he can reclaim his scoring he's still very much in contention.
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Im not comparing forwards and defensemen. Each of the stats are comparible to their peers who play their positions. Fabers with NHL defensemen and Bedards againt NHL centers.
 
MuckOG said:
Which is irrelevant when comparing forwards to defensemen (see Seider and Ekblad)

Fabers metrics are comparible among the best all all NHL defensemen, not just rookies. Bedards are not comparable with the best NHL forwards.
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Sure end I remember every year how the forecasters spoke of the metrics for the Calder and the Hart both are more narrative driven and points driven than anything else.

Most of the Faber for Calder talk is about stuff the Calder voters haven't really paid much heed to in the past.

Also some of the metrics being touted aren't a complete picture here either and this poster sums it up well.

State of Hockey said:
He's not among the best defensemen in the league. Actually much closer to the worst than the best since Christmas. There's times when a high TOI is more about the situation than the player, and this is one of them. The hype in the first third of the season was all about his defense. And it was earned - team goals against when he was on the ice was impressive - although some, like myself, pointed out the underlying metrics said it was likely not sustainable. But his defense has collapsed since then. He's near the worst of the league since Christmas in team goals against, nearly doubling his prior per game averages. And it's not just because he's playing a ton of minutes. The average per minute and even the eye test shows it too. Concurrently his team's even strength production when he's on the ice has declined as well, so they're not even getting offense to go with the porous defense. The only real positive change? A huge increase in PP time with the #1 PP unit that has some excellent players on it. That opportunity, largely due to no other teammate having the skills to play the point on a PP, has dramatically increased his assists and PP points.

The hype for him is as disingenuous as anyone else's. His defense in the first ~30 games was impressive and worthy of praise. But his defensive game since has dramatically deteriorated, and instead of those hyping him acknowledging that, they simply have shifted to talking about (PP) assists and ignoring the collapse in his defense. Ironically that's the very talking points they were using to downplay Bedard's game. They want to have it both ways while also ignoring the clear difference in teammate strength. The data and eye test says both are struggling on defense now. But there's also no question who has better players around them affecting their data points, and that's Faber by a mile. There's much less excuse for his recent poor EV and SH play.
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MuckOG said:
Im not comparing forwards and defensemen. Each of the stats are comparible to their peers who play their positions. Fabers with NHL defensemen and Bedards againt NHL centers.
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How many forwards are as important to their team as Bedard? As has been pointed out the he is literally one of the only threats on his team.
Trying to post his numbers relative to his peers is very misleading considering his time missed.
 
MuckOG said:
Im not comparing forwards and defensemen. Each of the stats are comparible to their peers who play their positions. Fabers with NHL defensemen and Bedards againt NHL centers.
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Don't you think that voters are going to compare all the rookies against each other for the Calder more?

I mean it's kind of ironic that you were talking about me conflating arguments and yet here you are talking about who people would take in a 7 game series and Faber being so important to the playoff chances of Minny almost like that's the only thing that has changed this season for Minny.
 
MuckOG said:
You're actually quoting SoH? Mmmmmkay....
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I didn't see a rebuttal to his actual argument was it not factual?

I mean we can agree that his first sentence was hot garbage but most of the other stuff he said was pretty accurate.

Or maybe he was right and some people are trying to have it both ways here?
 
I can agree with the poster saying that if Faber can hit 50 he'll likely be the favorite.
Bedard would have to end up with at least 60 (not impossible but unlikely)
 
wetcoast said:
I didn't see a rebuttal to his actual argument was it not factual?

I mean we can agree that his first sentence was hot garbage but most of the other stuff he said was pretty accurate.

Or maybe he was right and some people are trying to have it both ways here?
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Probably because most HFboarf members of the Wild community have SoH blocked and can't see it. He's a known troll that doesn't actually like the wild
 
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wetcoast said:
I didn't see a rebuttal to his actual argument was it not factual?

I mean we can agree that his first sentence was hot garbage but most of the other stuff he said was pretty accurate.

Or maybe he was right and some people are trying to have it both ways here?
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Faber has been the better NHL player at every point this season, he is both physically and mentally capable of playing with the best that the NHL has to offer at both ends of the ice. Bedard is still a work in progress or not apparent when it comes to proficiency at several aspects of the NHL game. Generational Junior hockey play is not the same as efficient and effective professional hockey.

There are of course aspects of Bedards game that are very intriguing and he is likely to progress into an elite NHL point producer. It remains to be seen though how effective he can truly be, his team straight up punted on the season from the get go, everything he does comes with the caveat that his team's intention is to lose. It does not make sense to me that a truly generational player is incapable of implementing the same mind games in reverse to his opponents defensively, but I have yet to see any kind of consistent effort there, whether by design or by lack of coaching, either way, it is a lacking demonstration of proficiency in my eyes.
 
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All of you need to stop discussing other posters.

If you're wondering whether I mean you, if you can no longer see your post(s), then yes, I mean you.
 
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These awards tend to be prone to massive favoritism and hype. Bedard has that in spades.

There will likely be folks voting who have never seen Faber play or maybe once, and will go with the front-runner, obvious preseason choice, which is Bedard.
 
Don't know if this has been posted in this thread but it was reported today that it's likely (pending a final medical exam next Monday the 19th) that Bedard gets cleared to play which means his first game back will probably be either the 21st or 23rd. If that holds true - he will have missed 6-1/2 weeks (20 or 21 games) or about a quarter of the season.
 
At this point Faber has been scoring at a higher rate for over a month than Bedard did when he was healthy. 17 points in his last 15 games. The month long period prior to Bedard's injury he only had 13 points in 16 games. Even the "he score more point" argument isn't a certainty moving forward.
 
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AKL said:
At this point Faber has been scoring at a higher rate for over a month than Bedard did when he was healthy. 17 points in his last 15 games. The month long period prior to Bedard's injury he only had 13 points in 16 games. Even the "he score more point" argument isn't a certainty moving forward.
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While that's true, I wouldn't expect to see Faber continue at this recent pace. But I see no reason why he couldn't finish at a ~50 point pace over the last 30 games, which would put him right around ~52 points on the season. Which would make it tough for Bedard to outscore him by any meaningful amount.

If that happens, I can't imagine Faber losing the Calder, unless the writers are just completely swayed by hype and hype alone.
 
WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
While that's true, I wouldn't expect to see Faber continue at this recent pace. But I see no reason why he couldn't finish at a ~50 point pace over the last 30 games, which would put him right around ~52 points on the season. Which would make it tough for Bedard to outscore him by any meaningful amount.

If that happens, I can't imagine Faber losing the Calder, unless the writers are just completely swayed by hype and hype alone.
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Yep. I agree that he won't continue to score at the torrid pace he has been. To hit 50 points, he would need to score 17 points over the next 30 games. That seams pretty do-able to me.
 
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Zero reason Brock won’t put up 60 this season. He is the pp qb for the rest of the year and the Wild have the easiest nhl schedule remaining. Brock is going to continue to feast and he is a Calder lock at this point.
 
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