The Race for the Calder Trophy

[Dr Jan Itor]

Rossi - Bedard - Fantilli
Hughes - Faber
Woll

Crazy strong all-rookie 1st team.

 

[BHawk21]

There are absolutely things he could be doing to convince me more, he has already made some adjustments to his positioning and effort that have bumped him up in my eyes from the start of the year. I don’t need Selke level defense out of him with his offensive skills, but he needs to be consistently generating positive plays.

Brock Faber has been extremely consistent about winning his matchups and tilting the ice when he is out there for half the game. He has been instrumental in his team currently being the hottest in the league. I do have a preference for two way/defensive players, that is my personal bias and I own it. I truly do think that what Brock is doing is quite unprecedented in the modern era.

Power did it last year and Seider the year before. While being years younger.

 

[cassac]

I couldn't care less who wins the award. But there is no comparison between the two in impact. Bedard gets people excited, fills the seats and highlights, but Faber is doing far more to help hus team win.

There is a large percentage of fans who value offense over winning. That's cool, I am not going to tell anyone how they should be enjoying the game. But what Faber is doing with just 40ish games under his belt is actually a far rarer commodity than a #1 overall putting up good numbers.

First bolded, the Blackhawks are not going to win a lot of games this year regardless of what Bedard does. It is not a good roster. Also, the Calder has absolutely nothing to do with the team record of player in contention.

Second one, good numbers? Bedard scoring as rookie (especially an 18 year old rookie) has not been seen often before. He is two points behind where McDavid was at 34 games as a rookie.

Faber is playing great but he is below Bedard.

 

[MuckOG]

Bedard is the Calder favorite by a mile. He is 18, he is putting up amazing numbers and truly showing his skills.

Faber is 21. Now, I do think he should be the obvious #2 favorite as you don't just step into the NHL of all leagues playing like a 25 year old Ryan Suter without the puke-limp-wrister of a shot.

30 minutes average ice time recently, absolutely shutting down teams. Playing actual defense against players like McJesus or Bedardd, etc. in the NHL is EXTREMELY difficult. This is not to be overlooked. Minnesota should be very, very happy they have what may be in just a year or two, top 10 defenseman in the league as an overall D. You usually have to wait for the development in defenseman to reach the level that 21 year old Faber is playing at.

But, it is not the same thing as 18 year old Bedard playing to an almost 40 goal, ppg pace. I will always say, scoring goals wins games. That's how you win hockey. Defense is very important, obviously that goes without saying.

Bedard is the favorite for Calder, but age has nothing to do with anything as previous Calder winners have shown us

 

[BagHead]

Lots of Blackhawks fans thinking all Wild fans think Bedard should be #2-3 in this race, so I just want to get my piece in:

Bedard is running away with the race. I'm hopeful that Faber gets voted #2, and I think he'd be the Calder winner in most years. Bedard is unreal, though. Congrats on your young player, Hawks fans, and enjoy watching him. The hockey gods sure do smile on Chicago.
With peculiar frequency, but I digress.

 

[BHawk21]

Bedard is the favorite for Calder, but age has nothing to do with anything as previous Calder winners have shown us

yea it shouldnt but in peoples heads. Tie goes to the guy whos significantly younger

Lots of Blackhawks fans thinking all Wild fans think Bedard should be #2-3 in this race, so I just want to get my piece in:

Bedard is running away with the race. I'm hopeful that Faber gets voted #2, and I think he'd be the Calder winner in most years. Bedard is unreal, though. Congrats on your young player, Hawks fans, and enjoy watching him. The hockey gods sure do smile on Chicago.
With peculiar frequency, but I digress.

you had the summer of 2012...

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Power did it last year and Seider the year before. While being years younger.

Neither one of those players looked anything like Faber, though Seider is definitely closer if you really have to force a comparison. But Seider is much more of a physically dominant player and relies on his tools to be effective, Faber relies more on the mental side, and that is what I find unprecedented and intriguing. Just like Bedard does unique things with the puck in the O zone, I see Faber doing those things in the D zone and in transition. Subtle delays to open lanes, a pretend opening only to be shut down, clever reverse breakouts to beat entire line forechecks on his own, and just excellent stick work are some of the things that wow me on a game by game basis from him, and he has the confidence to effectively do those things against the best players in the league.

 

[MuckOG]

yea it shouldnt but in peoples heads. Tie goes to the guy whos significantly younger

Can you point to an example of this among any recent Calder winners?

 

[x Tame Impala]

Minnesota fans drowning in nuance while reality passes them by. What year is this, 2013???

Bedard is an 18 year old with elite goal scoring and solid production with 4th liner Nick Foligno and a wet noodle of Kurashev being among his best linemates.

GTFO with this Faber nonsense. He’s having a fantastic season but Bedard has this one in the bag pending injury.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

As long as Kaprizov is there that argument is kind of thin. He's also got 5 goals and 9 points in the last 5.

Faber could play defense alongside a peewee player, do really well, and still get knocked because kApRiZoV.

Chicago sucks ass. We get it. Hawks fans play the two for one:

+1000000 points for Bedard playing on a shit team
-1000000 points for Faber because Kaprizov

Who cares that half the top 4 is out and guys like Goligoski and Bogo are occupying top 4 spots. No big deal. Not because isn’t a big deal, but because Faber and Middleton mask it. No credit from Hawks fans though who will bitch that Wild fans don’t give credit to Bedard.

 

[PeterCheater]

Second one, good numbers? Bedard scoring as rookie (especially an 18 year old rookie) has not been seen often before. He is two points behind where McDavid was at 34 games as a rookie.

No disrespect to Bedard as he's a great great prospect, but people throw these 1-to-1 comparisons to McDavid's production as a rookie while in reality McDavid was 3rd as a rookie in PPG (lol) while Bedard is 49th for players with over 20 games. Laine was 21st and Matthews was 28th in 2017.

Obviously, there are other variables as lineup strength etc. but production-wise Bedard is far far away from rookie McDavid.

 

[BagHead]

yea it shouldnt but in peoples heads. Tie goes to the guy whos significantly younger


you had the summer of 2012...

Don't remind me. What a curse that turned out to be. Worse, I broke my collar bone the same day those guys were signed. An omen of ill portent.

 

[Dust]

Faber could play defense alongside a peewee player, do really well, and still get knocked because kApRiZoV.

Chicago sucks ass. We get it. Hawks fans play the two for one:

+1000000 points for Bedard playing on a shit team
-1000000 points for Faber because Kaprizov

Who cares that half the top 4 is out and guys like Goligoski and Bogo are occupying top 4 spots. No big deal. Not because isn’t a big deal, but because Faber and Middleton mask it. No credit from Hawks fans though who will bitch that Wild fans don’t give credit to Bedard.

I'm not a Chicago fan in the least if that's what you're implying. And despite all of those players being out for Minnesota, that roster is still tremendously more talented than what is being iced in Chicago.

Faber is playing great, he deserves to be mentioned as one of the best rookies and he'll probably end up a finalist, but this race isn't close.

 

[Yepthatsme]

No disrespect to Bedard as he's a great great prospect, but people throw these 1-to-1 comparisons to McDavid's production as a rookie while in reality McDavid was 3rd as a rookie in PPG (lol) while Bedard is 49th for players with over 20 games. Laine was 21st and Matthews was 28th in 2017.

Obviously, there are other variables as lineup strength etc. but production-wise Bedard is far far away from rookie McDavid.

The other two entered a lower scoring league, that much is not debatable. The context though is that Bedard has managed to enter an even lowing scoring environment than the other two, the dreadful state of the current Blackhawks. McDavid’s Oilers scored 199 goals while missing McDavid for half the season. Matthews Leaf’s scored 240. Bedard’s Blackhawks are on pace to score 198. McDavid’s next 5 best scorers scored at 106 goal pace. Matthews at 122. Bedard’s at 97.

If you’re gonna account for league scoring levels, may as well include teams as well.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I'm not a Chicago fan in the least if that's what you're implying. And despite all of those players being out for Minnesota, that roster is still tremendously more talented than what is being iced in Chicago.

Faber is playing great, he deserves to be mentioned as one of the best rookies and he'll probably end up a finalist, but this race isn't close.

Faber is better than everyone on Minnesota’s defense. He’s probably second to Eriksson Ek in terms of importance to the team. Without him, the defense would collapse under the weight of the Middleton-Bogosian Goligoski-Mermis top 4.

You’re acting like Faber is a result of his team and not of the quality of player he is. Kaprizov must be absolutely insane to be able to prop up Faber’s defensive play to how good it is, especially considering he was a turnover prone shell of himself for at least half of the games so far this year.

So, should we discredit the prior Calder winners too?

Beniers - Ope, he had McCann and Eberle
Seider - Ope, he had Raymond and Larkin
Kaprizov - Ope, he had Zucc and Fiala
Makar - Ope, he had MacKinnon and Rantanen

And on and on and on…

 

[PeterCheater]

The other two entered a lower scoring league, that much is not debatable. The context though is that Bedard has managed to enter an even lowing scoring environment than the other two, the dreadful state of the current Blackhawks. McDavid’s Oilers scored 199 goals while missing McDavid for half the season. Matthews Leaf’s scored 240. Bedard’s Blackhawks are on pace to score 198. McDavid’s next 5 best scorers scored at 106 goal pace. Matthews at 122. Bedard’s at 97.

If you’re gonna account for league scoring levels, may as well include teams as well.

I was referring to multiple posters comparing production between McDavid and Bedard purely based on stats - while their raw PPG numbers are kind of similar, league scoring nowadays is visibly higher, so in reality these are different values.

Crosby had 36 pts in 34 games - and then 66pts in 47 games, so let's wait if Bedard can make a leap offensively in the latter part of the season (I guess Penguins' roster could have gotten better throughout a year that season). Maybe not as big as Crosby, but to the level of over-PPG player. As for now, I can agree that Bedard is the third-best offensive forward (for 18/19yo rookies), easily a tier below than (overall) Crosby and McDavid (until he got injured), and probably better than Matthews, considering roster discrepancy (and age).

 

[JaegerDice]

Lots of Blackhawks fans thinking all Wild fans think Bedard should be #2-3 in this race, so I just want to get my piece in:

Bedard is running away with the race. I'm hopeful that Faber gets voted #2, and I think he'd be the Calder winner in most years. Bedard is unreal, though. Congrats on your young player, Hawks fans, and enjoy watching him. The hockey gods sure do smile on Chicago.
With peculiar frequency, but I digress.

It's only peculiar frequency since 2006.

Before 2007, we never had a 1st overall pick.

Despite being the laughingstock of the Original Six for the bulk of the team's existence.

Also, our owners seem to have a mad dragon king gene thing going.

 

[Dust]

Faber is better than everyone on Minnesota’s defense. He’s probably second to Eriksson Ek in terms of importance to the team. Without him, the defense would collapse under the weight of the Middleton-Bogosian Goligoski-Mermis top 4.

You’re acting like Faber is a result of his team and not of the quality of player he is. Kaprizov must be absolutely insane to be able to prop up Faber’s defensive play to how good it is, especially considering he was a turnover prone shell of himself for at least half of the games so far this year.

So, should we discredit the prior Calder winners too?

Beniers - Ope, he had McCann and Eberle
Seider - Ope, he had Raymond and Larkin
Kaprizov - Ope, he had Zucc and Fiala
Makar - Ope, he had MacKinnon and Rantanen

And on and on and on…

Kaprizov, another guy that led his team in scoring as a rookie. Great comparison

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Kaprizov, another guy that led his team in scoring as a rookie. Great comparison

Except, he was the #1 guy on a playoff team. Chicago is trash.

 

[MrRuin]

I know I'm beating a dead horse on this - but here comes another whack ...

As a Hawks fan who also follows the AHL affiliate Rockford Icehogs - Rossi has been a burr under our saddle for a couple years playing for the Iowa Wild. He may have had some challenges over the previous 3 seasons but he gained a lot of professional experience playing against other professionals while Bedard was playing against teenagers who will never play professional hockey.

Again - I understand and agree that age should not disqualify eligibility for the Calder but a guy like Rossi who is 3 years older and has 3 years more experience is a significant factor in his ability to compete for the Calder.

But that’s the whole point. It’s not part of the trophy what happened before. Not to mention Rossi did not play three years in the ahl, but I guess that’s nitpicking. He lost a whole year of development where he didn’t play and couldn’t train or even do a simple workout for months. Did you read about that too? Could have arguably had a larger impact even. But it doesn’t matter for this trophy because it’s not what happened before. It’s about this year, being a new player in the best league.

 

[AKL]

I see it as Faber being the defensive version of Bedard. Both are incredible at what their job requires of them. What Bedard is doing offensively, Faber is doing defensively. It's just offense is more visible and has a higher perceived value by the general population. right or wrong.

 

[Rooch]

Rossi - Bedard - Fantilli
Hughes - Faber
Woll

Crazy strong all-rookie 1st team.

Pavel Mintyukov has entered the chat.

 

[Esq]

Lots of Blackhawks fans thinking all Wild fans think Bedard should be #2-3 in this race, so I just want to get my piece in:

Bedard is running away with the race. I'm hopeful that Faber gets voted #2, and I think he'd be the Calder winner in most years. Bedard is unreal, though. Congrats on your young player, Hawks fans, and enjoy watching him. The hockey gods sure do smile on Chicago.
With peculiar frequency, but I digress.

Thanks for the well wishes. But man do folks have a limited memory around here.

 

[Jbcraig1883]

Power did it last year and Seider the year before. While being years younger.

Let me preface this with the fact I think Bedard will win easily.

With that out of the way, Power definitely did not come close to playing this good of defense against other teams' top lines. Eye test and stats show that. As for Seider, I didn't see enough of him his rookie year. Was he playing 24-30 minutes a night against other top lines and rarely getting scored against 5 on 5? Not rhetorical, genuinely asking.

 

[Jbcraig1883]

Pavel Mintyukov has entered the chat.

For Hughes or Faber?