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The Race for the Calder Trophy

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EbonyRaptor said:
I know I'm beating a dead horse on this - but here comes another whack ...

As a Hawks fan who also follows the AHL affiliate Rockford Icehogs - Rossi has been a burr under our saddle for a couple years playing for the Iowa Wild. He may have had some challenges over the previous 3 seasons but he gained a lot of professional experience playing against other professionals while Bedard was playing against teenagers who will never play professional hockey.

Again - I understand and agree that age should not disqualify eligibility for the Calder but a guy like Rossi who is 3 years older and has 3 years more experience is a significant factor in his ability to compete for the Calder.
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You have stumbled onto the main point from several posters here, 3 extra years of professional development is a very big gap to overcome when it comes to overall play and proficiency. Posters in this topic were acting like that gap never existed and it was appalling to suggest he has adjustments to make. Connor Bedard is expected to be a much better player three years from now, he is starting from a very high point now on the offensive side of play. No other rookie has his pure offensive acumen, but several do have significantly better attributes when it comes to other aspects of hockey. How you weight those aspects is the difference and where discussion can be had.
 
Obvious Fabertism said:
You have stumbled onto the main point from several posters here, 3 extra years of professional development is a very big gap to overcome when it comes to overall play and proficiency. Posters in this topic were acting like that gap never existed and it was appalling to suggest he has adjustments to make. Connor Bedard is expected to be a much better player three years from now, he is starting from a very high point now on the offensive side of play. No other rookie has his pure offensive acumen, but several do have significantly better attributes when it comes to other aspects of hockey. How you weight those aspects is the difference and where discussion can be had.
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Well said.

I would love to have Brock Faber on the Hawks - fantastic player. The Hawks have a bunch of d-prospects that I'm very high on but Faber might be better than any of them - although it's difficult to tell because a guy like Alex Vlassic doesn't have the same level of support from his forwards as Faber has from his.
 
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I will just ask. Is there anything Bedard could be doing that would convince people that he has been the best rookie this year over Faber? It doesnt seem like it.

His numbers are great, his advanced stats are great, hes produced highlights, hes not playing with any talent, outproducing all other rookies and everyone on the hawks by a ton. What more could he do? Selke defense I guess? Thats tough with AHLers surrounding him.
 
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Faber is most definitely having a better season than Bedard vs expectations, but not better in a vacuum. If Faber was a top 3 pick this performance would be great but more on par with what was expected; I think he's getting a few points here for exceeding expectations but Calder is still about best rookie. Faber is a 2nd round pick playing like a top 5 pick so sure, a better "value" but not more valuable IMO
 
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BHawk21 said:
I will just ask. Is there anything Bedard could be doing that would convince people that he has been the best rookie this year over Faber? It doesnt seem like it.

His numbers are great, his advanced stats are great, hes produced highlights, hes not playing with any talent, outproducing all other rookies and everyone on the hawks by a ton. What more could he do? Selke defense I guess? Thats tough with AHLers surrounding him.
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There are absolutely things he could be doing to convince me more, he has already made some adjustments to his positioning and effort that have bumped him up in my eyes from the start of the year. I don’t need Selke level defense out of him with his offensive skills, but he needs to be consistently generating positive plays.

Brock Faber has been extremely consistent about winning his matchups and tilting the ice when he is out there for half the game. He has been instrumental in his team currently being the hottest in the league. I do have a preference for two way/defensive players, that is my personal bias and I own it. I truly do think that what Brock is doing is quite unprecedented in the modern era.
 
wetcoast said:
As an 18 year old rookie it actually is.



Bedard isn't just leading the Blacks Hawks offensively he could very well have double the goals and 20-30 more points than the next Black Hawk player and they have such a young Dman group which makes it even more outstanding.


Voters love to watch the obvious as well.


Faber is having a great rookie season but with Bedard doing Bedard things it's his to lose IMO.
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I couldn't care less who wins the award. But there is no comparison between the two in impact. Bedard gets people excited, fills the seats and highlights, but Faber is doing far more to help hus team win.

There is a large percentage of fans who value offense over winning. That's cool, I am not going to tell anyone how they should be enjoying the game. But what Faber is doing with just 40ish games under his belt is actually a far rarer commodity than a #1 overall putting up good numbers.
 
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Obvious Fabertism said:
There are absolutely things he could be doing to convince me more, he has already made some adjustments to his positioning and effort that have bumped him up in my eyes from the start of the year. I don’t need Selke level defense out of him with his offensive skills, but he needs to be consistently generating positive plays.

Brock Faber has been extremely consistent about winning his matchups and tilting the ice when he is out there for half the game. He has been instrumental in his team currently being the hottest in the league. I do have a preference for two way/defensive players, that is my personal bias and I own it. I truly do think that what Brock is doing is quite unprecedented in the modern era.
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I see the name so I am not sure if these is a schtick or your true feelings.
 
bland said:
I couldn't care less who wins the award. But there is no comparison between the two in impact. Bedard gets people excited, fills the seats and highlights, but Faber is doing far more to help hus team win.

There is a large percentage of fans who value offense over winning. That's cool, I am not going to tell anyone how they should be enjoying the game. But what Faber is doing with just 40ish games under his belt is actually a far rarer commodity than a #1 overall putting up good numbers.
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A simple test is to imagine if they switched teams, how do you think Faber would look then?
 
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bland said:
I couldn't care less who wins the award. But there is no comparison between the two in impact. Bedard gets people excited, fills the seats and highlights, but Faber is doing far more to help hus team win.

There is a large percentage of fans who value offense over winning. That's cool, I am not going to tell anyone how they should be enjoying the game. But what Faber is doing with just 40ish games under his belt is actually a far rarer commodity than a #1 overall putting up good numbers.
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Minnesota is 2nd to last in the central. Am I taking crazy pills?
 
BHawk21 said:
Minnesota is 2nd to last in the central. Am I taking crazy pills?
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They are in the Wildcard off points percentage, and hottest team in the league currently. I don’t expect you to understand the nuances of what has occurred with the Wild this season, but injuries and cap limitations would be the main drivers of the early record. All those names of talented players that have been listed for MN have had struggles for their own reason. JEE, Faber, Brodin, and Rossi have been the Wilds best contributing players this season.
 
rynryn said:
Faber is most definitely having a better season than Bedard vs expectations, but not better in a vacuum. If Faber was a top 3 pick this performance would be great but more on par with what was expected; I think he's getting a few points here for exceeding expectations but Calder is still about best rookie. Faber is a 2nd round pick playing like a top 5 pick so sure, a better "value" but not more valuable IMO
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I get what you're saying but Faber's already in his D+3 year. Though it's still impressive for a 2nd round defenseman that young to be that good. But it's not like we're comparing the 2023 1OA to the 2023 2nd round 17th pick or something
 
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FDBluth said:
I get what you're saying but Faber's already in his D+3 year. Though it's still impressive for a 2nd round defenseman that young to be that good. But it's not like we're comparing the 2023 1OA to the 2023 2nd round 17th pick or something
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No one sane would expect Faber to be able to play nearly half the game every night in all situations as the number one D and still look great. He didn't even play power play in college and before this year I feel a happy surprise would have been solid second pairing defenseman.
Edit: yeah I see what you're saying...but if anything what he's done post draft (up to this year) wouldn't have made him go sooner in a re-draft so aside from age it's still ~ expectations for me.
 
Obvious Fabertism said:
They are in the Wildcard off points percentage, and hottest team in the league currently. I don’t expect you to understand the nuances of what has occurred with the Wild this season, but injuries and cap limitations would be the main drivers of the early record. All those names of talented players that have been listed for MN have had struggles for their own reason. JEE, Faber, Brodin, and Rossi have been the Wilds best contributing players this season.
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who cares.

The blackhawks record is bad because they either have cap dumps, AHLers, or rookies playing every night. So what.
 
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Bedard is the Calder favorite by a mile. He is 18, he is putting up amazing numbers and truly showing his skills.

Faber is 21. Now, I do think he should be the obvious #2 favorite as you don't just step into the NHL of all leagues playing like a 25 year old Ryan Suter without the puke-limp-wrister of a shot.

30 minutes average ice time recently, absolutely shutting down teams. Playing actual defense against players like McJesus or Bedardd, etc. in the NHL is EXTREMELY difficult. This is not to be overlooked. Minnesota should be very, very happy they have what may be in just a year or two, top 10 defenseman in the league as an overall D. You usually have to wait for the development in defenseman to reach the level that 21 year old Faber is playing at.

But, it is not the same thing as 18 year old Bedard playing to an almost 40 goal, ppg pace. I will always say, scoring goals wins games. That's how you win hockey. Defense is very important, obviously that goes without saying.
 
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BHawk21 said:
He would look exactly like Seth Jones. Play 30 min a night, chip in offensively, and be our most reliable guy. Hes very good.

I like Seth Jones and I like Faber
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I hate Seth Jones defense just to be clear, I personally don’t see them as comparable at all.

BHawk21 said:
who cares.

The blackhawks record is bad because they either have cap dumps, AHLers, or rookies playing every night. So what.
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Exactly, I already said that I do not care for the teammate argument and it will not convince me of anything, especially when people demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of Faber’s teammate situation too.
 
This is a very stong class of rookies. More than the usual number of impact players, with a good number of rookies a tier below those in the Calder discussion.

Bedard is a notch above everyone else. For an 18-year-old to be doing what he has been doing on a team with such a lack of talent is phenomenal. We are talking about a team in which a 36-year-old Nick Foligno is third on the team in points, and Jason Dickinson is second on the team in goals. Foligno is a 4th line player on many playoff teams and Dickinson has never achieved double-digit goals until this season. That's how devoid of offensive talent Chicago is.

Bedard will easily win the Calder, as he should. That is not taking anything away from the other top-tier rookies. Bedard is just that good.
 
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