The Race for the Calder Trophy

[MuckOG]

Minnesota has other superstars to focus on. Teams are focused on established players such as Kaprizov and Zuc. Chicago literally has nobody else worth focusing on.

I'm not saying Faber isn't good or worthy, but the reality of the Calder trophy is that unless he's producing points in those minutes it's not going to matter. It doesn't even matter for Norris trophy either. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying the reality of the award is that if Faber is producing at a significant rate offensively to go along with everything else that he's doing, he's not going to win the Calder.


Once again, I'm not saying it's fair, but the reality is both the Norris and Calder is a scoring competition, no matter how it's worded by the NHL.


See above.

Yeah, that's what I said.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Minnesota has other superstars to focus on. Teams are focused on established players such as Kaprizov and Zuc. Chicago literally has nobody else worth focusing on.

I'm not saying Faber isn't good or worthy, but the reality of the Calder trophy is that unless he's producing points in those minutes it's not going to matter. It doesn't even matter for Norris trophy either. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying the reality of the award is that if Faber is producing at a significant rate offensively to go along with everything else that he's doing, he's not going to win the Calder.


Once again, I'm not saying it's fair, but the reality is both the Norris and Calder is a scoring competition, no matter how it's worded by the NHL.


See above.

Hard to know if that is true or not, but if you read through this thread you will see that I have agreed already with that. Doesn’t mean that we as fans can’t hold different opinions from the voters. And until the votes are in you can’t actually say it’s a reality.

 

[CBJx614]

Hard to know if that is true or not, but if you read through this thread you will see that I have agreed already with that. Doesn’t mean that we as fans can’t hold different opinions from the voters. And until the votes are in you can’t actually say it’s a reality.

I get what you're saying but history has all but proven he's not going to win it.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Kaprizov this season is a demonstration of why pure counting stats like he and Bedard are putting up really don’t mean that much and are much more a product of a base skill level combined with force fed opportunities. Bedard is very skilled, no one in here is questioning that. Is he utilizing his skills in a way conducive to winning hockey games? That’s where some people have questions.

All this really does is artificially punish 18/19 year olds that were picked in the top 3.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

All this really does is artificially punish 18/19 year olds that were picked in the top 3.

Only if you think that 18 and 19 year olds are incapable of playing winning hockey.

To clarify, I am not saying his team needs to be winning. But on an individual level I expect the best rookie to contribute positively to his teams performance.

 

[Yepthatsme]

I realize that the Calder has basically become a "who scores the most points as a rookie" award. And because of this, Bedard will probably win it. But the official definition it that is should be given "to the player selected as the most proficient in his first year of competition in the NHL".

Oxford defines "proficient" as "competent or skilled in doing or using something"?

Is Bedard more "proficient" than Faber is? I think that's up for debate when you look at the totality of their games thus far.

I’m usually the poster boy for defense wins championships and that two way play is much more important for winning. But yes, the focal point of an entire team’s offense is more important than a defensive defenseman. A guy leading his team’s offense by a country mile is more “proficient” than a guy playing good to great defense against tough competition.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Only if you think that 18 and 19 year olds are incapable of playing winning hockey.

To clarify, I am not saying his team needs to be winning. But on an individual level I expect the best rookie to contribute positively to his teams performance.

If Bedard wasn’t on the Blackhawks, I doubt they have a single player on pace for 40 points. They only have one other with him, and it’s the guys who plays the most with Bedard. The hockey that’s most conducive to winning right now for the Blackhawks is creating any sort of offense. I would wager a large portion of money that Bedard’s current style has been green lit by his coaching staff because he is the only player on Chicago capable of creating offense above replacement level at the NHL level.

 

[MuckOG]

I’m usually the poster boy for defense wins championships and that two way play is much more important for winning. But yes, the focal point of an entire team’s offense is more important than a defensive defenseman. A guy leading his team’s offense by a country mile is more “proficient” than a guy playing good to great defense against tough competition.

Faber is not just a "defensive defenseman" unless you would also characterize Charlie McAvoy as a defensive defenseman, because their playing styles are quite similar.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

If Bedard wasn’t on the Blackhawks, I doubt they have a single player on pace for 40 points. They only have one other with him, and it’s the guys who plays the most with Bedard. The hockey that’s most conducive to winning right now for the Blackhawks is creating any sort of offense. I would wager a large portion of money that Bedard’s current style has been green lit by his coaching staff because he is the only player on Chicago capable of creating offense above replacement level at the NHL level.

It’s absolutely been green lit, pure offense to Bedard is very clearly the Blackhawks strategy and I won’t argue against it or blame him for it. Look at the second assist he had last night, a set play specifically to get him the puck in space. If Foligno fails to tip it by the two defenders they give up a 3 on 2 the other way, but they are committed to making those decisions in search of offense. How much credit goes to coach and how much goes to player on that play? If it fails or succeeds I bet the answer is different for a lot of fans here.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Faber is not just a "defensive defenseman" unless you would also characterize Charlie McAvoy as a defensive defenseman, because their playing styles are quite similar.

Maybe defense first defenseman would’ve been more apt, I wouldn’t go as far as calling him a two way guy yet although I have no doubts he could develop into it. Regardless, that is quite literally less important than a guy who has had a point on 55% of his teams goals over the last 11 games.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Maybe defense first defenseman would’ve been more apt, I wouldn’t go as far as calling him a two way guy yet although I have no doubts he could develop into it. Regardless, that is quite literally less important than a guy who has had a point on 55% of his teams goals over the last 11 games.

Faber has played 55% of his teams ice time over the last stretch, that’s pretty damn important. Two way is absolutely what he is and always has been.

 

[Yepthatsme]

It’s absolutely been green lit, pure offense to Bedard is very clearly the Blackhawks strategy and I won’t argue against it or blame him for it. Look at the second assist he had last night, a set play specifically to get him the puck in space. If Foligno fails to tip it by the two defenders they give up a 3 on 2 the other way, but they are committed to making those decisions in search of offense. How much credit goes to coach and how much goes to player on that play? If it fails or succeeds I bet the answer is different for a lot of fans here.

I’ll answer that for you. It goes to Bedard. To put it in perspective, I would take Kaprizov, EEK, Zuc, Boldy, Hartman, and at this point Rossi over Chicago’s second best forward which is seemingly a race between Kurashev and the ghost of Foligno’s past. Those are just the names I don’t think there’s any arguments that can be said against it as well. The amount of offense Bedard single handedly creates is astronomical, of course set plays are designed around him, and any regression he receives from being less of a focal point (which I doubt would happen considering he’s a generational talent), will be more than countered by him getting competent teammates.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Faber has played 55% of his teams ice time over the last stretch, that’s pretty damn important. Two way is absolutely what he is and always has been.

That is a great point when comparing him across the rookie class and how important he’s been. It’s less important when comparing him against Bedard, when you realize he’s doing it out of necessity because the Wilds blue line is eviscerated by injuries and it’s not his usual role, meanwhile Bedard has led his forward core in ice time by a country mile all season.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

That is a great point when comparing him across the rookie class and how important he’s been. It’s less important when comparing him against Bedard, when you realize he’s doing it out of necessity because the Wilds blue line is eviscerated by injuries and it’s not his usual role, meanwhile Bedard has led his forward core in ice time by a country mile all season.

He was first pairing in training camp and at all points this season, it is his usual role, the coach has just now added him to the PP and hitting 30 minutes is new out of necessity but he was already averaging over 24 with no PP time before Spurgeon and Brodin went down. The Wild D corps is just as useless right now as the hawks forward corps.

 

[ORRFForever]

The NHL is trying to market itself with Bedard so, even if it's close and at this point it's not, Bedard will win.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

That is a great point when comparing him across the rookie class and how important he’s been. It’s less important when comparing him against Bedard, when you realize he’s doing it out of necessity because the Wilds blue line is eviscerated by injuries and it’s not his usual role, meanwhile Bedard has led his forward core in ice time by a country mile all season.

It must drive people up a wall that Faber has been more impactful this season than Bedard.

It’s “less important” because Faber, who was 1st pair from game 1 of the season, has had injuries on his team. But ZOMG Chicago players sucks so Bedard gets bonus importance!

The mental gymnastics is breathtaking.

 

[Hanji]

It's Bedard's to lose.

 

[AKL]

I don't think any Wild fans are confused about the special nuance of the trophies and how they only go to points. I don't think that changes the fact that you can easily argue Faber is the best rookie player in the league this season.

In this instance, the best rookie will almost certainly not win the Calder trophy.

 

[rynryn]

Yo Wild fans were doing the same thing when ppl were arguing Robertson... First line center Ryan Hartman and Zuccy, who had been alright but had faded quickly was seen more as a make-do rehab project than an actual top line player. Wild fans absolutely played the "look at his linemates" card. It's valid.
D where the strength isn't putting up big numbers are going to be a hard sell no matter what-- for one, their goalie has a hand in making them look better or worse than their stats would say.

 

[AKL]

That is a great point when comparing him across the rookie class and how important he’s been. It’s less important when comparing him against Bedard, when you realize he’s doing it out of necessity because the Wilds blue line is eviscerated by injuries and it’s not his usual role, meanwhile Bedard has led his forward core in ice time by a country mile all season.

No, Faber is usually out against the top opponents. It's not just because he's injured. Spurgeon is the second pair RD you think Faber is.

 

[MuckOG]

It's Bedard's to lose.

Agreed. Bedard will win the scoring title for rookies aka "Calder". But that doesn't make him the best rookie this season because its already established that the voters aren't voting in the best player, they are voting in the player who finishes with the most points.

 

[AKL]

Bedard is also the focal point of every team that they face, Faber isn't.

Faber is the one shutting down all those "focal points"

 

[Yepthatsme]

He was first pairing in training camp and at all points this season, it is his usual role, the coach has just now added him to the PP and hitting 30 minutes is new out of necessity but he was already averaging over 24 with no PP time before Spurgeon and Brodin went down. The Wild D corps is just as useless right now as the hawks forward corps.

It must drive people up a wall that Faber has been more impactful this season than Bedard.

It’s “less important” because Faber, who was 1st pair from game 1 of the season, has had injuries on his team. But ZOMG Chicago players sucks so Bedard gets bonus importance!

The mental gymnastics is breathtaking.

It’s just a weird argument, because the biggest argument for Faber has for being one of the top rookies is the role he plays on his team, and Bedard is legitimately the only other rookie who has done that as well the whole season. Bedard just happens to also be a centre on pace for 74 points and accelerating while still receiving no help. Then the argument shifts to Faber’s usage has increased even more over the last ~5 games because of injuries, while Bedard has also taken off to the tune of 3 multi point efforts over his last 5 games. Like Bedard has every argument people are trying to make for Faber, while also being a supreme offensive talent.

No, Faber is usually out against the top opponents. It's not just because he's injured. Spurgeon is the second pair RD you think Faber is.

More meant his role has increased from top pair to a bonafide 1D, you can argue talent wise who has been the #1 but while healthy Brodin has received that usage.

 

[AKL]

It’s just a weird argument, because the biggest argument for Faber has for being one of the top rookies is the role he plays on his team, and Bedard is legitimately the only other rookie who has done that as well the whole season. Bedard just happens to also be a centre on pace for 74 points and accelerating while still receiving no help. Then the argument shifts to Faber’s usage has increased even more over the last ~5 games because of injuries, while Bedard has also taken off to the tune of 3 multi point efforts over his last 5 games. Like Bedard has every argument people are trying to make for Faber, while also being a supreme offensive talent.

More meant his role has increased from top pair to a bonafide 1D, you can argue talent wise who has been the #1 but while healthy Brodin has received that usage.

Brodin and Faber play together all game long, their usage is identical, pray tell how you've deduced Brodin is the de facto #1, and how that somehow makes Faber doing the same thing less impressive.

Also probably should mention that "Faber has every argument people are making for Bedard, while also being a supreme defensive talent"

 

[57special]

I’m usually the poster boy for defense wins championships and that two way play is much more important for winning. But yes, the focal point of an entire team’s offense is more important than a defensive defenseman. A guy leading his team’s offense by a country mile is more “proficient” than a guy playing good to great defense against tough competition.

Faber is on pace for 40 points, most of them ES. That is not a defensive Dman. That is what good offensive Dman do. On top of that Faber plays outstanding defense. According to some metrics, Slavin/Brodin type defense.

Right now, he looks like the next McAvoy.,,,actually a little bit better.