Speculation: The Quest to sign Lindholm: Part II

[liquiduck]

Yes, I have heard that from Ducks fans several times; however, I believe that it is a red herring. If the ducks were in a position to sign Lindholm in respect to cap space and budget, the so called 250,000 difference would have disappeared faster then it took me to type this response. You are welcome to keep believing that this is about the contract difference of 250,000 causing the delay in signing; however, if you really thought about it, there is a major issue here that is keeping the Ducks from making a deal. It is not public yet, but we will have a general idea of what it is before December 1.

The flaw in your argument is they've had cap all summer, and yet didn't sign him.

Nodoby knows how far apart the two sides are right now. I'm not even sure BM and CL/HL know.

 

[Djp]

250K is even worse. I thought it was at least 500K. The team is clearly stuck with the cap and can't go over a certain amount or they'd have their best D playing for them, instead of arguing over 250K.

I think the problem is Anaheim needs to unload salary in order to fit him in.

Nobody wants Bieska or stoner. They would be asking about Fowler or Vats. Despres could be in the talk but he has been hurt.

They need to clear about $5.7M in cap pace.

 

[PaulGG]

Lindholm loses money the Ducks lose points because their best defensmen is sitting at home....It doesn't really seem like anybody is winning right now, which to me means nobody is really "in the drivers seat". The Ducks need Lindholm and badly.

Don't you agree it is too early to really matter? I just think Lindholm will flinch first in this contractual issue.

 

[aj8000]

The bold is just false. What is so hard to understand about that? Would Johnny hockey be signed right now if he didn't come off his 8 mil a year AAV ask? Probably not.

My question to you is why did Calgary make a deal and Ducks didn't? There is a piece to this puzzle that we are not seeing.

 

[Trolfoli]

I am not talking about he feels about it . I am saying he has no real leverage under his contractual status. It is the same for all players of his status.

Right... he can just sit out and watch the Ducks lose games. They tend to start slow anyways.

 

[liquiduck]

My question to you is why did Calgary make a deal and Ducks didn't? There is a piece to this puzzle that we are not seeing.

Because Gaudreau came down to a number the Flames felt he was worth signing at. Lindholm hasn't yet.

 

[aj8000]

The flaw in your argument is they've had cap all summer, and yet didn't sign him.

Nodoby knows how far apart the two sides are right now. I'm not even sure BM and CL/HL know.

It is not a flaw, I suspect Lindholm wanted a payday and the Ducks would not sign him for that payday; however, they slowly put themselves in a position over said summer that they no longer have the cap space to even sign him for the comparables. Why is that? The Ducks GM either cannot add or something else is brewing?

 

[liquiduck]

Right... he can just sit out and watch the Ducks lose games. They tend to start slow anyways.

And lose money in the process. It's a lose lose, for both sides.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Right. They have to save the money so they can overpay Bieksa/Stoner/Bernier, retain on Maroon.

Are you guys starting to understand why Lindholm could get pissed about this situation?

He's welcome to get as angry as he wants to. The Ducks don't overpay players coming off of ELC's based on potential, and that's what the numbers the Lindholm camp represent - he's not actually proven he's worth what they're asking for.

I won't argue that the Ducks lately are morons in the UFA department, but being responsible in the RFA department is what allows for that - the Ducks aren't an UFA destination of choice due to cost of living and taxes, it is what it is.

 

[aj8000]

Because Gaudreau came down to a number the Flames felt he was worth signing at. Lindholm hasn't yet.

Why hasn't he come down? Ducks fans say he loves Anaheim, he wants to play for the Ducks. I am sure he would rather be on the ice then sitting at home. Like it or not, there is a piece to this puzzle that is not public yet. Maybe the fact Lindholm asked for the world in respect to his contract pissed off the Ducks Management?

 

[liquiduck]

It is not a flaw, I suspect Lindholm wanted a payday and the Ducks would not sign him for that payday; however, they slowly put themselves in a position over said summer that they no longer have the cap space to even sign him for the comparables. Why is that? The Ducks GM either cannot add or something else is brewing?

I bet if Lindholm agreed to sign at Rielly, Risto, or Jones money it would be done right now.

Despres and Thompson to LTIR, with a few guys being sent down solves the cap problem. At least for a few months. Maybe the whole year, depending on how long Despres is out.

 

[liquiduck]

Why hasn't her come down? Ducks fans say he loves Anaheim, he wants to play for the Ducks. I am sure he would rather be on the ice then sitting at home. Like it or not, there is a piece to this puzzle that is not public yet. Maybe the fact Lindholm asked for the world in respect to his contract pissed off the Ducks Management?

His agent is a known Jackweed. Maybe his intial ask of 7.5 mil AAV did piss of management, who knows but if that were the case i'm sure they would have just traded him. More than likely this is just about CL not wanting to lose face with his first big client.

 

[Trolfoli]

He's welcome to get as angry as he wants to. The Ducks don't overpay players coming off of ELC's based on potential, and that's what the numbers the Lindholm camp represent - he's not actually proven he's worth what they're asking for.

I won't argue that the Ducks lately are morons in the UFA department, but being responsible in the RFA department is what allows for that - the Ducks aren't an UFA destination of choice due to cost of living and taxes, it is what it is.

This wouldn't sit well with me if I'm in Lindholm's shoes. That's cool the Ducks feel that way. Seems like a waste of time to jerk your #1D around, but hey it takes the focus off the Kings goalie situation so whatever.

 

[liquiduck]

This wouldn't sit well with me if I'm in Lindholm's shoes. That's cool the Ducks feel that way. Seems like a waste of time to jerk your #1D around, but hey it takes the focus off the Kings goalie situation so whatever.

Im sure it doesn't sit well with him. Unfortunalty for him he doesn't really have a choice if he wants to play in the NHL.

 

[Ducks DVM]

This wouldn't sit well with me if I'm in Lindholm's shoes. That's cool the Ducks feel that way. Seems like a waste of time to jerk your #1D around, but hey it takes the focus off the Kings goalie situation so whatever.

I seem to recall the Kings jerking around a far better defenseman a couple years ago.

 

[aj8000]

His agent is a known Jackweed. Maybe his intial ask of 7.5 mil AAV did piss of management, who knows but if that were the case i'm sure they would have just traded him. More than likely this is just about CL not wanting to lose face with his first big client.

Sure, and Trouba's agent is a bigger jackweed, but the Jets did not sign away their cap space to sign Trouba during the summer just incase Trouba changed he mind. There is a reason why the ducks did not reserve the cap space for Lindholm. Is it incompetence?

 

[Ducks DVM]

Sure, and Trouba's agent is a bigger jackweed, but the jets did not sign away their cap space to sign Trouba during the summer just incase Trouba changed he mind. There is a reason why the ducks did not reserve the cap space for Lindholm. Is it incompetence?

No, it was the stated intention of management to trade a defensemen (widely assumed to be Fowler) for a forward. However, trading Fowler prior to signing Lindholm would be giving Lindholm all of the leverage in negotiations, and that actually WOULD be incompetence.

 

[Trolfoli]

I seem to recall the Kings jerking around a far better defenseman a couple years ago.

That was over a large contract, not a "skambud".

 

[liquiduck]

Sure, and Trouba's agent is a bigger jackweed, but the Jets did not sign away their cap space to sign Trouba during the summer just incase Trouba changed he mind. There is a reason why the ducks did not reserve the cap space for Lindholm. Is it incompetence?

They had other players to re-sign. Also, a few past mistakes compounded the issue( Stoner/ Bieksa). Whatever, mistakes happen.

I'm not sure why people expected Anaheim to put their entire roster on hold though while waiting for Lindholm. Rakell and Vatanen needed new deals, we needed another competent goalie, and another center to replace Thompson. It is what it is. If anaheim didn't think they could get him signed, then i'm sure Lindholm would be wearing a different uniform right now. Maybe they do eventually move him. Fowler is playing awfully well right now.

 

[liquiduck]

That was over a large contract, not a "skambud".

Uh huh. Because Lindholm is going to not get a large contract? Makes sense.

 

[aj8000]

Because Gaudreau came down to a number the Flames felt he was worth signing at. Lindholm hasn't yet.

If I was a Duck fan, I would want that to be true as well.

 

[liquiduck]

If I was a Duck fan, I would want that to be true as well.

If that wasn't the case you wouldn't be reading reports stating that the two sides are still apart. It's not hard to grasp.

 

[aj8000]

No, it was the stated intention of management to trade a defensemen (widely assumed to be Fowler) for a forward. However, trading Fowler prior to signing Lindholm would be giving Lindholm all of the leverage in negotiations, and that actually WOULD be incompetence.

An where is the press release from the Ducks management that this was their plan? It is speculation. Regardless, it is incompetence from Ducks management, you do not handcuff yourself with the salary cap to gain leverage in negotiations with a RFA that has really no choice but to sign with you anyways. You bring up the lower paid players from the A and make sure you have the cap room to sign Lindholm and then after he signs, you can decide if you are trading Fowler for your forward.

 

[Trolfoli]

Uh huh. Because Lindholm is going to not get a large contract? Makes sense.

Lindholm is going to get less then 7M this year. Also that contract was signed back in 11-12, the cap has sense gone up. The contract you're talking about is a lot more then the "low ball",his words, offer Lindholm received. The difference is the player knew he was asking for a lot, where Lindholm isn't asking much different from any of his comparables.

Edit: I would also like to add that the Kings management planned ahead and left the space open to sign their #1D.

 

[aj8000]

If that wasn't the case you wouldn't be reading reports stating that the two sides are still apart. It's not hard to grasp.

Do not believe everything you read especially on the internet, what else are they going to say? No comment? Are they going to tell the reporter the real reason if there is one? Why is the number they are so call apart by jumping around like a pinball?