Speculation: The Quest to sign Lindholm: Part II

[Trolfoli]

or we could just LTIR Depres and Thompson and send Stoner down as well as our AHL players that are currently playing and almost have enough to pay Lindholm.

or LTIR Depres and Thompson and trade Stoner with a prospect and have way more than enough.

or LTIR Depres and Thompson and trade Fowler for a young cheap top 6 forward plus a pick and have a lot more than enough.

Stop trolling, you're name fits perfect.

I pray that the Ducks GM uses the LTIR to get Lindholm signed. He probably isn't dumb enough to try that. The problem is if everyone gets healthy for 1 game the GM has to dump salary. That puts him in a worse situation then today.

I just dont get how they could end up like this. You dont resign Bieksa,Vatanen and Rakell before Lindholm. You dont trade for a backup Who is average at best Who carries a 4+mill cap hit. Who is doing the math? Use Tokarski or something as the backup and pay Lindholm. Trading for Bernier was as dumb as it gets in the position they Are in. Bad contracts happens,specially for ufa's but not when you know that Bieksa isnt very good and they have tons of d-prospects. Same with Bernier, why trade for a backup with that high of a cap hit? Its just horrible work by the GM, shouldnt be possible to make thoose decisions....

Exactly. You should know who the biggest piece is and know about how much it's going to cost. It's not even that they're a few $100,000 short. They are a few $100,000 short after dumping someone like Fowler. That is unacceptable.

Also I would love to hear the conversation where the Ducks GM is telling Lindholm he needs to take less money because of the Bieksa & Bernier contracts.

Klefbom for Lindholm
Now if you look at Klef's salary for 7 years at 4.1 mil , it would be very hard for the oilers to be convinced to move him. He is playing very good and his upside is climbing. Not that I want to move him but I just wonder if his salary and play would be enough to make this deal a go for Anaheim. In no way do I say or think Klef is as good as Lindholm today ,but that could change. Would a sweetheart contract like Klef's be enough to equal out value of the players. Just curious.

Doesn't work. Ducks have about $300,000 space right now. They'd still need to dump a player.

Still think there's a good chance Lindholm is the one dealt. If he doesn't come down in his ask it requires Fowler plus paying to dump another contract. Put that against the return you'll get for Lindholm, I could see the Ducks taking the young/exciting players from a Lindholm trade instead of losing assets to get Lindholm signed.

 

[PaulGG]

Ducks are in driver seat with the RFA, they will have Lindholm signed. He is losing money by the day and he must know there is very little chance he will be traded by the Ducks.

 

[Trolfoli]

Ducks are in driver seat with the RFA, they will have Lindholm signed. He is losing money by the day and he must know there is very little chance he will be traded by the Ducks.

He must feel really great about losing money because the team signed a 4M backup goalie. I'm sure that will help him decide to take less money.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Ducks are in driver seat with the RFA, they will have Lindholm signed. He is losing money by the day and he must know there is very little chance he will be traded by the Ducks.

Lindholm loses money the Ducks lose points because their best defensmen is sitting at home....It doesn't really seem like anybody is winning right now, which to me means nobody is really "in the drivers seat". The Ducks need Lindholm and badly.

 

[aj8000]

Ducks are in driver seat with the RFA, they will have Lindholm signed. He is losing money by the day and he must know there is very little chance he will be traded by the Ducks.

They are only in the drivers seat with Lindholm because they have his rights; however, due to the fact they are in cap hell, they may be missing the engine in the vehicle. accessing the required cap space will either cost the Ducks significantly or they are going to have to come up with some real creative ways to generate cap space.

I do not think this will not end well for the Ducks.

 

[playasRus]

Just out of curiosity, what happens, contract wise if the Ducks don't sign Lindholm at all this season? Does his RFA status slide an extra year?

 

[aj8000]

Just out of curiosity, what happens, contract wise if the Ducks don't sign Lindholm at all this season? Does his RFA status slide an extra year?

Yes, it does

 

[liquiduck]

He must feel really great about losing money because the team signed a 4M backup goalie. I'm sure that will help him decide to take less money.

He's losing money because he didn't sign a contract before the start of the season.

 

[liquiduck]

They are only in the drivers seat with Lindholm because they have his rights; however, due to the fact they are in cap hell, they may be missing the engine in the vehicle. accessing the required cap space will either cost the Ducks significantly or they are going to have to come up with some real creative ways to generate cap space.

I do not think this will not end well for the Ducks.

How creative is LTIR? Thompson is out until Mid march, Despres may be done for the year.

 

[Trolfoli]

He's losing money because he didn't sign a contract before the start of the season.

Yes. He didn't sign a contract because the team doesn't have enough money to pay him what he's worth. The team doesn't have the money to pay him because they brought in bad contracts like Bernier and Bieksa.

It would be like your boss telling you they can't give you a raise because of the guy they hired for too much money that sleeps in the break room and is constantly causing you more work.

Maybe Lindholm is getting angry about the situation?

 

[liquiduck]

Yes. He didn't sign a contract because the team doesn't have enough money to pay him what he's worth. The team doesn't have the money to pay him because they brought in bad contracts like Bernier and Bieksa.

It would be like your boss telling you they can't give you a raise because of the guy they hired for too much money that sleeps in the break room and is constantly causing you more work.

Maybe Lindholm is getting angry about the situation?

They had more than enough cap most of the summer.

 

[gilfaizon]

Yes. He didn't sign a contract because the team doesn't have enough money to pay him what he's worth. The team doesn't have the money to pay him because they brought in bad contracts like Bernier and Bieksa.

It would be like your boss telling you they can't give you a raise because of the guy they hired for too much money that sleeps in the break room and is constantly causing you more work.

Maybe Lindholm is getting angry about the situation?

They aren't lowballing Lindholm because of cap issues. They have obviously set a negotiation target of his value to the team and are sticking with it. Once he signs, the cap issues will be figured out. The Bernier contract is actually of value to the Ducks on the budget side of things.

 

[aj8000]

How creative is LTIR? Thompson is out until Mid march, Despres may be done for the year.

I do not think that will be enough to sign Lindholm. If it was, Lindholm would be signed sealed and delivered already. It is also assuming the Ducks owners are willing to spend the extra coin to use the LTIR. If the fabled internal cap is true, it only compounds the problem.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I pray that the Ducks GM uses the LTIR to get Lindholm signed. He probably isn't dumb enough to try that. The problem is if everyone gets healthy for 1 game the GM has to dump salary. That puts him in a worse situation then today.




Exactly. You should know who the biggest piece is and know about how much it's going to cost. It's not even that they're a few $100,000 short. They are a few $100,000 short after dumping someone like Fowler. That is unacceptable.

Also I would love to hear the conversation where the Ducks GM is telling Lindholm he needs to take less money because of the Bieksa & Bernier contracts.



Doesn't work. Ducks have about $300,000 space right now. They'd still need to dump a player.

Still think there's a good chance Lindholm is the one dealt. If he doesn't come down in his ask it requires Fowler plus paying to dump another contract. Put that against the return you'll get for Lindholm, I could see the Ducks taking the young/exciting players from a Lindholm trade instead of losing assets to get Lindholm signed.

He won't have to dump anyone unless he wants to. CBA Article 50:10 -

A Player with a Player Salary of $1.5 million becomes unfit to play for more than 24 calendar days and 10 NHL Regular Season games. At the time the Player becomes unfit to play, his Club has an Averaged Club Salary of $69.5 million, and the Upper Limit in that League Year is $70 million. The Club may replace the unfit-to-play Player with another Player or Players with an aggregate Player Salary and Bonuses of up to $1.5 million. The first $500,000 of such replacement Player Salary and Bonuses shall count toward the Club's Averaged Club Salary, bringing the Averaged Club Salary to the Upper Limit. The Club may then exceed the Upper Limit by up to another $1 million as a result of the replacement Player Salary and Bonuses. However, if the unfit-to-play Player once again becomes fit to play, and the Club has not otherwise created any Payroll Room during the interim period, then the Player shall not be permitted to rejoin the Club until such time as the Club reduces its Averaged Club Salary to below the Upper Limit.

There's nothing in that about having to dump salary to get Cap compliant, you just have to dump salary in order to get the player back on the ice.

 

[Trolfoli]

They aren't lowballing Lindholm because of cap issues. They have obviously set a negotiation target of his value to the team and are sticking with it. Once he signs, the cap issues will be figured out. The Bernier contract is actually of value to the Ducks on the budget side of things.

They are lowballing because over a certain point they have to not only move Fowler, but they have to pay to move one of Stoner & Bieksa as well.

Unless you think 500-700k is really worth pissing off your #1D. Isn't Maroon's retention 500k? Makes no sense to blow games and piss everyone off for less then a million.

 

[dracom]

I do not think that will be enough to sign Lindholm. If it was, Lindholm would be signed sealed and delivered already. It is also assuming the Ducks owners are willing to spend the extra coin. If the fabled internal cap is true, it only compounds the problem.

How many times do we need to say this, the Ducks and Lindholm are still apart on the money, 250k apart from the reports. Until that is done and settled, no trades, moves to LTIR are going to happen. And the Murray has already said he has more money to spend this season. The owners have also gone to the cap when they re-signed Getz, and Perry, so it's not crazy to think they are doing the same right now.

I'm curious how many more times we have to state these facts before people finally remember them.

 

[Trolfoli]

How many teams do we need to say this, the Ducks and Lindholm are still apart on the money, 250k apart from the reports. Until that is done and settled, no trades, moves to LTIR are going to happen. And the Murray has already said he has more money to spend this season. The owners have also gone to the cap when they re-signed Getz, and Perry, so it's not crazy to think they are doing the same right now.

I'm curious how many more times we have to state these facts before people finally remember them.

250K is even worse. I thought it was at least 500K. The team is clearly stuck with the cap and can't go over a certain amount or they'd have their best D playing for them, instead of arguing over 250K.

 

[liquiduck]

I do not think that will be enough to sign Lindholm. If it was, Lindholm would be signed sealed and delivered already. It is also assuming the Ducks owners are willing to spend the extra coin to use the LTIR. If the fabled internal cap is true, it only compounds the problem.

The bold is just false. What is so hard to understand about that? Would Johnny hockey be signed right now if he didn't come off his 8 mil a year AAV ask? Probably not.

 

[Ducks DVM]

250K is even worse. I thought it was at least 500K. The team is clearly stuck with the cap and can't go over a certain amount or they'd have their best D playing for them, instead of arguing over 250K.

Or, they just don't like to give contracts they consider overpayments to their RFA's coming off their ELC's. That's always been the case.

 

[liquiduck]

250K is even worse. I thought it was at least 500K. The team is clearly stuck with the cap and can't go over a certain amount or they'd have their best D playing for them, instead of arguing over 250K.

There have been recent reports that they are still over a million apart. Nobody knows, everyone is guessing.

 

[Djp]

Just out of curiosity, what happens, contract wise if the Ducks don't sign Lindholm at all this season? Does his RFA status slide an extra year?

There is a december deadline date to sign otherwise he cant play this eason even if signed because he would have to go through league wide waivers.

It also affects his UFA timeline because its still a 7/27 to get to UFA so if he doesnt play , he doesnt accrue a year thus delaying when he can get to UFA .

 

[liquiduck]

They are lowballing because over a certain point they have to not only move Fowler, but they have to pay to move one of Stoner & Bieksa as well.

Unless you think 500-700k is really worth pissing off your #1D. Isn't Maroon's retention 500k? Makes no sense to blow games and piss everyone off for less then a million.

Stoner is overpayed by about 700k, look at how everyone views that contract.

It's about precedent.

 

[aj8000]

How many teams do we need to say this, the Ducks and Lindholm are still apart on the money, 250k apart from the reports. Until that is done and settled, no trades, moves to LTIR are going to happen. And the Murray has already said he has more money to spend this season. The owners have also gone to the cap when they re-signed Getz, and Perry, so it's not crazy to think they are doing the same right now.

I'm curious how many more times we have to state these facts before people finally remember them.

Yes, I have heard that from Ducks fans several times; however, I believe that it is a red herring. If the ducks were in a position to sign Lindholm in respect to cap space and budget, the so called 250,000 difference would have disappeared faster then it took me to type this response. You are welcome to keep believing that this is about the contract difference of 250,000 causing the delay in signing; however, if you really thought about it, there is a major issue here that is keeping the Ducks from making a deal. It is not public yet, but we will have a general idea of what it is before December 1.

 

[PaulGG]

He must feel really great about losing money because the team signed a 4M backup goalie. I'm sure that will help him decide to take less money.

I am not talking about he feels about it . I am saying he has no real leverage under his contractual status. It is the same for all players of his status.

 

[Trolfoli]

Or, they just don't like to give contracts they consider overpayments to their RFA's coming off their ELC's. That's always been the case.

Right. They have to save the money so they can overpay Bieksa/Stoner/Bernier, retain on Maroon.

Are you guys starting to understand why Lindholm could get pissed about this situation?