Speculation: The Quest to sign Lindholm: Part II

[DANTHEMAN1967]

There are currently 8 teams with enough cap space to absorb Stoner's contract without having to send salary back the other way. I have included the Leafs in this list as they have the Cowen buy-out that is to decided today as well as Horton and Robidas's cap hit that can be put on LTIR. I also included their placing last year for cap hit.

Team Current available Cap ranking in cap 2015-2016
Carolina $15,750,000 27
Winnipeg $9,840,000 29
Florida $9,780,000 2
New Jersey $7,330,000 28
Ottawa $6,030,000 25
Nashville $5,740,000 26
Edmonton $5,740,000 14
Toronto $8,300,000 (LTIR) 20

Obviously Carolina, Winnipeg (who still need to sign/trade Trouba), New Jersey, Ottawa and Nashville are budget teams similar to Anaheim and are much less likely to spend to the cap especially real salary.
Florida doesn't strike me as a team that would be willing to not only impact this season but the next one as well with a salary dump deal considering that their window is just opening.
Edmonton's fans are demanding to see an improvement and add to that there they have a potential of $9,275,000 performance bonuses to be won and I don't think that Stoner is a move that they would be considering.
This leaves the Leafs. Who have already shown that they are not shy about taking back salary (Michalek, Greening, Laich, Bernier's bonus) if the sweetener is worth it.
If BM is looking for a salary dump to get out of his mess it is probably a very short list, headed by the Leafs, which means it better be a good sweetener (Montour, Larsson, 1st round pick).

 

[KrisLetAngry]

That's absolutely true, but at the same time moves can't be done until they are ready to sign. Unless it's strictly LTIR related, which is possible, but that can be done retroactively. I think people forget that those moves, whatever they are, will likely leave Anaheim a little short handed until Lindholm is available. They want to shorten that period of time as much as possible.

Realistically, we should expect a lot to happen in a very short period of time. We shouldn't see a lot of moves over a more drawn out span.

When they have an agreement in place. I imagine that's when they do trades.

I agree that I wouldn't make trades till I'm 100% sure lindholm is ready to sign

 

[Sojourn]

When they have an agreement in place. I imagine that's when they do trades.

I agree that I wouldn't make trades till I'm 100% sure lindholm is ready to sign

For that reason I'm not too worried that little has actually been done.

I'm not happy about the situation, mind you. It's a crappy situation to be in, and I blame both sides. At least as far as the negotiations go. The team stuff, and needing to make these moves, that's on Murray. We've been scratching our heads at some of the signings and moves Murray has made, and the worry was that over time it would add up. Here we are, further down the road, and it's added up.

But... there is no dread because a decision needs to be imminent, because that isn't the case. Yet. There is no denying that there is a point down the road where that will be the case, but I think things will be handled by then, and the lack of activity doesn't mean much to me until he is actually ready to sign.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Trading for $2M+ cap relief, sending down Stoner, Larsson and Sorenson leaves us just enough room to sign Lindholm once Thompson is placed on LTIR.

Why isn't it brought up that in Lindholms contract it could be middle-back heavy? Heck it could be next season start heavy, but this year only he is paid like 4.5 million or so? BM has options available to him , and despres is another guy who's situation might help the cause( as well as his own. he needs long term rest to have any chance of succeeding in the nhl)

 

[dracom]

Why isn't it brought up that in Lindholms contract it could be middle-back heavy? Heck it could be next season start heavy, but this year only he is paid like 4.5 million or so? BM has options available to him , and despres is another guy who's situation might help the cause( as well as his own. he needs long term rest to have any chance of succeeding in the nhl)

I don't think actual money matters right now. We need to stay under the actual salary cap right now.

 

[nyr__1994]

There are currently 8 teams with enough cap space to absorb Stoner's contract without having to send salary back the other way. I have included the Leafs in this list as they have the Cowen buy-out that is to decided today as well as Horton and Robidas's cap hit that can be put on LTIR. I also included their placing last year for cap hit.

Team Current available Cap ranking in cap 2015-2016
Carolina $15,750,000 27
Winnipeg $9,840,000 29
Florida $9,780,000 2
New Jersey $7,330,000 28
Ottawa $6,030,000 25
Nashville $5,740,000 26
Edmonton $5,740,000 14
Toronto $8,300,000 (LTIR) 20

Obviously Carolina, Winnipeg (who still need to sign/trade Trouba), New Jersey, Ottawa and Nashville are budget teams similar to Anaheim and are much less likely to spend to the cap especially real salary.
Florida doesn't strike me as a team that would be willing to not only impact this season but the next one as well with a salary dump deal considering that their window is just opening.
Edmonton's fans are demanding to see an improvement and add to that there they have a potential of $9,275,000 performance bonuses to be won and I don't think that Stoner is a move that they would be considering.
This leaves the Leafs. Who have already shown that they are not shy about taking back salary (Michalek, Greening, Laich, Bernier's bonus) if the sweetener is worth it.
If BM is looking for a salary dump to get out of his mess it is probably a very short list, headed by the Leafs, which means it better be a good sweetener (Montour, Larsson, 1st round pick).

I think the Leafs are in some sort of Salary Cap conundrum as well between Bonus overages and how they work with LTIR and carry over.

Source: http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/1/...cap-situation-the-limits-of-the-bonus-cushion

Performance bonuses are not counted against the salary cap until the end of a season. As long as a team has enough cap room to cover any bonuses they owe, that's not a problem. But any team that spends to the upper limit has any bonuses above that amount applied to their salary cap in the following season. Since teams must be at the upper limit to activate the LTIR exception to the salary cap, that means any team that uses LTIR and has any of its players hit performance bonuses is going to have those bonuses applied to the cap the next season.

In the case of a team like the Leafs, this could be a pretty big problem as they have many players who could earn bonuses next season. At the top of the list are William Nylander, Mitch Marner, and Nikita Zaitsev, each of whom has $850,000 in potential bonuses available next season. Whoever the Leafs draft at 1st overall this season is also going to have some fairly hefty bonuses (the past two #1 picks each have $2.85M in available bonuses).

So basically, once the Leafs dip into LTIR all of the performance bonuses attained this year will hit next years cap, which in the case of Toronto could be upwards of 4 mil.

I think we can cross the leafs off of a team that is willing to use LTIR to cure what is ailing the Ducks.

 

[Sojourn]

Why isn't it brought up that in Lindholms contract it could be middle-back heavy? Heck it could be next season start heavy, but this year only he is paid like 4.5 million or so? BM has options available to him , and despres is another guy who's situation might help the cause( as well as his own. he needs long term rest to have any chance of succeeding in the nhl)

Because his cap hit would still average out over that, and it would be an obstacle the team would still need to overcome.

 

[Apotheosis]

From what read, the consensus is "no". I'm also in that camp.

I would say yes, but I know I'm in the minority.

So polarizing.

Understandable. I'm personally very high on Montour, which is why I asked.

 

[Smitty426]

Obviously Carolina, Winnipeg (who still need to sign/trade Trouba), New Jersey, Ottawa and Nashville are budget teams similar to Anaheim and are much less likely to spend to the cap especially real salary.
Florida doesn't strike me as a team that would be willing to not only impact this season but the next one as well with a salary dump deal considering that their window is just opening.
Edmonton's fans are demanding to see an improvement and add to that there they have a potential of $9,275,000 performance bonuses to be won and I don't think that Stoner is a move that they would be considering.
This leaves the Leafs. Who have already shown that they are not shy about taking back salary (Michalek, Greening, Laich, Bernier's bonus) if the sweetener is worth it.
If BM is looking for a salary dump to get out of his mess it is probably a very short list, headed by the Leafs, which means it better be a good sweetener (Montour, Larsson, 1st round pick).

I'm not sure where you got that from. Shero has a green light to buy to make the team better at all costs. Never has there been talk of a budget that I have heard of. Maybe there is and I have missed it, but I don't think so. Also the Devs have taken on Savard and kept Clowe contracts. Taken on Stoner for one of the young D still leaves us with about $4M and if Shero thinks it makes sense he would do in a heartbeat. I actually see him doing it and flipping Stoner and an add for an asset while keeping part of the salary. Shero has spun gold since hes gotten hear.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

I think the Leafs are in some sort of Salary Cap conundrum as well between Bonus overages and how they work with LTIR and carry over.

Source: http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/1/...cap-situation-the-limits-of-the-bonus-cushion




So basically, once the Leafs dip into LTIR all of the performance bonuses attained this year will hit next years cap, which in the case of Toronto could be upwards of 4 mil.

I think we can cross the leafs off of a team that is willing to use LTIR to cure what is ailing the Ducks.

The Leafs have over $23 million coming off the cap next year with cheap ELC players itching to play in those spots.
If the price is right the Leafs should definitely be in.

Also I believe some of those bonuses are redundant (i.e. Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Zaitsev can't all win the Calder ).

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

I'm not sure where you got that from. Shero has a green light to buy to make the team better at all costs. Never has there been talk of a budget that I have heard of. Maybe there is and I have missed it, but I don't think so. Also the Devs have taken on Savard and kept Clowe contracts. Taken on Stoner for one of the young D still leaves us with about $4M and if Shero thinks it makes sense he would do in a heartbeat. I actually see him doing it and flipping Stoner and an add for an asset while keeping part of the salary. Shero has spun gold since hes gotten hear.

I looked at the years prior and you're right NJ 4 of the 5 years prior to last year paid almost to the cap. So unfortunately for the Leafs they may be competition for a Stoner salary dump trade.

I just hope that whether it is the Leafs or the Devils (or whomever else) who agrees to take Stoner as a salary dump that they make Anaheim pay a steep price.

 

[Smitty426]

I looked at the years prior and you're right NJ 4 of the 5 years prior to last year paid almost to the cap. So unfortunately for the Leafs they may be competition for a Stoner salary dump trade.

I just hope that whether it is the Leafs or the Devils (or whomever else) who agrees to take Stoner as a salary dump that they make Anaheim pay a steep price.

No worries, also the new owners are much more aggressive. I think any GM may be licking their chops. I just hope new Coyotes GM does not low ball and win!

 

[DrDangles]

Toronto needs to offersheet him, he's worth the 4 firsts. Adding him would drop the value of those picks pretty quickly.

 

[JetsHomer]

Toronto needs to offersheet him, he's worth the 4 firsts. Adding him would drop the value of those picks pretty quickly.

6.257 for 6 years is a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick. The Ducks would probably match but it would put them tight against the cap

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

6.257 for 6 years is a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick. The Ducks would probably match but it would put them tight against the cap

The leafs don't have their 2nd to make available.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Important fact reported by Bob McKenzie tonight:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-lindholm-s-holdout-and-fleury-s-future~976840

If he signed tomorrow, Lindholm's 1st year cap hit will be 300 K MORE than the AAV. It goes up by almost 30 K every day he misses.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Important fact reported by Bob McKenzie tonight:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-lindholm-s-holdout-and-fleury-s-future~976840

If he signed tomorrow, Lindholm's 1st year cap hit will be 300 K MORE than the AAV. It goes up by almost 30 K every day he misses.

 

[Caesium]

So basically, once the Leafs dip into LTIR all of the performance bonuses attained this year will hit next years cap, which in the case of Toronto could be upwards of 4 mil.

I think we can cross the leafs off of a team that is willing to use LTIR to cure what is ailing the Ducks.

Leafs aren't concerned about next year's salary cap. Robidas, Laich, Greening and Michalek are coming off of the books, and only Michalek is actually playing for the Leafs right now. Kapanen or Soshnikov will take his spot at ELC prices.

 

[McXLNC97]

Important fact reported by Bob McKenzie tonight:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-lindholm-s-holdout-and-fleury-s-future~976840

If he signed tomorrow, Lindholm's 1st year cap hit will be 300 K MORE than the AAV. It goes up by almost 30 K every day he misses.

Yeah, the longer it goes, the more messy it's going to get. Another week, and a 5.5m deal will be like a 6m cap hit for this season.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Important fact reported by Bob McKenzie tonight:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-lindholm-s-holdout-and-fleury-s-future~976840

If he signed tomorrow, Lindholm's 1st year cap hit will be 300 K MORE than the AAV. It goes up by almost 30 K every day he misses.

Who the hell thinks up this stuff to put in the CBA? Does anybody know if this "clause" was put in to supposedly benefit the teams or the players?

 

[McXLNC97]

Who the hell thinks up this stuff to put in the CBA? Does anybody know if this "clause" was put in to supposedly benefit the teams or the players?

Can't see how this benefits the team in anyway.

 

[Avs44]

Who the hell thinks up this stuff to put in the CBA? Does anybody know if this "clause" was put in to supposedly benefit the teams or the players?

Something the players possibly fought for. Gets teams to the table a little quicker and gives them consequences if they're quibbling over a few 100k like the Ducks currently are. Sure, you can fight over a bit of money if you want...but it'll still affect your cap, so what do you really gain?


The better question here is...what the hell is Bob Murray doing? If Lindholm just wants a little more than Ristolainen, why isn't this done already?

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Can't see how this benefits the team in anyway.

Something the players possibly fought for. Gets teams to the table a little quicker and gives them consequences if they're quibbling over a few 100k like the Ducks currently are. Sure, you can fight over a bit of money if you want...but it'll still affect your cap, so what do you really gain?


The better question here is...what the hell is Bob Murray doing? If Lindholm just wants a little more than Ristolainen, why isn't this done already?

I get how it works in this case. But a team that isn't right up against the cap probably could care less that the first year cap is higher and the following years are lower. It still only equals the total value of the contract. It could even be seen as a benefit to every team that isn't right up against the cap the first year.

I'd like to know what both sides were thinking when this was put in the CBA.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Fantasy question for those in the know, at what point should I ditch this guy and pick up someone who will be playing?

 

[xxreact9]

Fantasy question for those in the know, at what point should I ditch this guy and pick up someone who will be playing?

Really depends how deep the league is and what categories.

Lindholm's best fantasy asset is his +/- capabilities. He's averaged over +20 per season since entering the league. His next is ppp with 15 last year.

What are the top-3 free agent defenders in the league?